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Thread: How much is a Credit Worth in 3303? (or: How does money work?)

  1. #16
    Originally Posted by metascrawl View Post (Source)
    I just want to know how many credits will buy you a pint of beer (or how many pints you can buy for a credit).

    I can only think about money in those terms.
    It really depends upon where you're buying that pint. According to latest statistics from EDDB.io, the price of a ton of beer is worth between 20 and 492 credits, with a galactic average of about 186. There are approximately* 2000 pints per ton. Assume we lose 10% of that for container and mechanisms that keep the beer from spoiling, especially in the vacuum of space, and you can assume a pint will cost you between 0.01 credits and
    0.27 credits, with a galactic average of about 0.1 credits. That's the wholesale cost, of course.

    Assume that the price you pay in the pub is at least five times the wholesale cost, so the galactic average price of a pint of beer would be 0.5 credits. The price of beer at a pub in the US, in 2015 at least, was about $4, although it used to be much higher in the past. Which would place the value of a credit at around $8 USD... assuming every step of the chain of supply, from farms to bar patron, remains the same.


    __________
    *"A pints a pound the world around"

  2. #17
    Just to complete my calculations.. assuming that we'e still using gold as a base, a Cobra costs £10,495. And oddly, that sounds about right, if you talk cars. You could say a Sidey is a little Renault Twizy, and a Cobra is more like a Peugeot Partner.

    Just for fun I figured out the cost of a basic Cutter...£731,060 - without any extras. I still think there's room for a more expensive ship... Something Bugatti would be proud of

  3. #18
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    ...
    Nah it's more of a "This is an interesting thing to think about" question. ...
    In which case... I am rich! LOL

  4. #19
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Impossible to say, as we don't know what the intrinsic value of a credit is worth in comparison to something tangible. But, assuming in 3300 they still use Gold as a base for value...

    1t of gold = 1000 kilograms = 9,417 credits.
    So 1 gram of gold = 9.417 credits.

    Compared to today's real world gold prices:

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    So 1 gram of gold = £32 (or $42.59)
    You missed a few zeros there. 1 ton of gold = 1000 kilograms = 1,000,000 grams.

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    That's nice maths. However, something like Gold is only valuable since it's relatively rare and useful in some stuff. And pretty. In space, gold is likely plentiful so it's probably worth a lot less in 3303.

    Something like Lithium might well be far more valuable since it can't be made (all the Lithium in the universe is all there ever will be), or Tantalum, since it's what Hyperdrives are made with.



    Nah it's more of a "This is an interesting thing to think about" question. It doesn't really bother me in terms of "game balance" or anything, I'd just like to know if having 200mill credits means I'm rich (like having 2mill today would be) or it means I'm pretty average, or even poor because money is valued totally differently.
    There is no 'cost of living' here and so that kind of rules out; who is rich and who is poor. Just because you can't afford to buy a Cutter; does not mean you are poor, worse off or even a lower class, because everything you do and wish to do or become; can be done in a Cobra. The Commander who can afford to line up his complete collection of colour coordinated Cutters, is no richer than the commander who can only afford one; when it comes to buying a Star-port, or even an out post.

    You are rich when you can afford to buy everything you want. Sometimes.

  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Impossible to say, as we don't know what the intrinsic value of a credit is worth in comparison to something tangible. But, assuming in 3300 they still use Gold as a base for value...

    1t of gold = 1000 kilograms = 9,417 credits.
    So 1 gram of gold = 9.417 credits.

    Compared to today's real world gold prices:

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    So 1 gram of gold = £32 (or $42.59)
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    That's nice maths. However, something like Gold is only valuable since it's relatively rare and useful in some stuff. And pretty. In space, gold is likely plentiful so it's probably worth a lot less in 3303.
    Nice maths, but off by a factor of 1000.
    Gold costs today £32.80* per gram, which translates to £32,800 per kilogram and £32,800,000 per metric ton.
    1 gram of gold in E: D isn't 9.417 Cr, but 0.009417 Cr.


    *https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold...rice-per-gram/

  7. #22
    Money doesn't work in Elite.

    We've completed the evolution of financial instruments and mediums of exchange, working our way from barter, to representations of physical assets, to debt-backed fiat, to the penultimate incarnation in ED...digits for the sake of digits, created on the fly in arbitrarily large quantity, backed by nothing other than price fixing and a market that is magically immune to supply or demand.

    Elite is a post scarcity economy whose powers that be issue credits for laughs then force everyone to use them at gunpoint.

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    Seems like another Realism vs. Gameplay question IMO

    Ultimately the question is:

    Do you want realistic cash reimbursement for doing a 'job' or do you want a value which is balanced to make the game enjoyable?
    Most of the fun of threads like these is doing the math, realizing that it doesn't make sense, and then trying to figure out how to make it make sense anyways. Which is one of the reasons why I find Frontier's recent trend of providing canon explanations for gameplay compromises to be so irritating. Especially when those explanations are off the cuff, and never explored to their logical conclusions.

  9. #24
    Originally Posted by Darkfyre99 View Post (Source)
    You missed a few zeros there. 1 ton of gold = 1000 kilograms = 1,000,000 grams.
    Originally Posted by Zieman View Post (Source)
    Nice maths, but off by a factor of 1000.
    Gold costs today £32.80* per gram, which translates to £32,800 per kilogram and £32,800,000 per metric ton.
    1 gram of gold in E: D isn't 9.417 Cr, but 0.009417 Cr.
    Hmm this Azera Coffee from Nescafé just isn't good enough obviously.

    Well now, as Dark quite rightly pointed out, I calculated 1t as 1kg, which isn't much use

    That means that the credit economy is likely to be similar to the Yen, as in ridiculously inflated. OR.. possible a 'Cr' is more like a UK Penny, or a US Cent.

    1t of gold = £9,417,000.
    1g of gold equals £0.01p. In real money. So I can only assume Gold in Elite's galaxy is incredibly plentiful now. Which also helpfully tells me that 1g of gold could very well equal 1cr. So inadvertently, that might actually be the answer. A gram of gold = 1/3200 of the value in £.
    (Please ignore this. My class action against Nescafé is now ongoing.

    Same source Just my apparently decaffeinated brain decided gold was really cheap and I should buy some immediately!

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    Money doesn't work in Elite.

    We've completed the evolution of financial instruments and mediums of exchange, working our way from barter, to representations of physical assets, to debt-backed fiat, to the penultimate incarnation in ED...digits for the sake of digits, created on the fly in arbitrarily large quantity, backed by nothing other than price fixing and a market that is magically immune to supply or demand.

    Elite is a post scarcity economy whose powers that be issue credits for laughs then force everyone to use them at gunpoint.
    Meanwhile, In the headquarters of the Pilot's Federation in Fort Jameson on Founder's World, a closed door meeting is taking place:

    "Dammit... another one of our members is blabbing again."

    "It's the third one today. Which means another under the table assassination mission attempt."

    "Who are we going to frame this time?"

    "Sirius Corp. They're feeling a little too independent for my tastes. Just make sure they're fairly incompetent. We just want to scare him, not kill him at this time."

    "Make it so, number one."

  11. #26
    Of all the bases considered here, I like beer the most

    For a true galactic civilization, gold will be dirt cheap and biowaste will be super expensive. Gold is just metal, we know for a fact there is almost infinite supply of it in the universe. With biowaste, we know for a fact that so far only one planet in the universe contains it, and that availability of bacterial biofloc and nutrients will be the hard limit for terraforming even if given unlimited feed of organic molecules. So biowaste should be much more expensive than gold.

    But beer on the other hand, you always know where you are with beer. Discretionary item with supply and demand balanced out by population - there's only so much people can drink, and that quantity is roughly constant.

  12. #27
    This is all awesome. Reps all round.

  13. #28
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Hmm this Azera Coffee from Nescafé just isn't good enough obviously.

    Well now, as Dark quite rightly pointed out, I calculated 1t as 1kg, which isn't much use

    That means that the credit economy is likely to be similar to the Yen, as in ridiculously inflated. OR.. possible a 'Cr' is more like a UK Penny, or a US Cent.

    1t of gold = £9,417,000.
    1g of gold equals £0.01p. In real money. So I can only assume Gold in Elite's galaxy is incredibly plentiful now. Which also helpfully tells me that 1g of gold could very well equal 1cr. So inadvertently, that might actually be the answer. A gram of gold = 1/3200 of the value in £.


    Same source Just my apparently decaffeinated brain decided gold was really cheap and I should buy some immediately!
    MOAR COFFEE!!

    The figures tell me that 1 Cr = £ 3483.06 - or that gold isn't nowhere near as precious in E: D than it is on Earth today.

  14. #29
    Thanks to credit shortcuts and exploits the money in ED is entirely worthless.

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by Zieman View Post (Source)
    MOAR COFFEE!!

    The figures tell me that 1 Cr = £ 3483.06 - or that gold isn't nowhere near as precious in E: D than it is on Earth today.
    I might just give up on this whole maths thing.. That coffee is useless

    As Zieman delicately put it, I used Elite's figures instead of real money. Good thing I'm not managing the UK economy... although that would explain a lot...

    £:
    1t of gold = £32,200,000.
    1 gram of gold = £32

    Cr:
    1t of gold = 9,400Cr
    1 gram of gold = 0.0094Cr

    1Cr = £ 1t ÷ Cr 1t

    1Cr = £3,425 (figures rounded for simplicity)

    This make me think Gold is probably not the correct base, as Gold would be indescribably rare now if ship costs were taken into consideration:

    Cobra Mk III = 379,178Cr
    Which is £1,298,684,650.
    I'm sorry.. but the Cobra, fine ship as she is, isn't worth 1.3 billion pounds

    I shall now stop trying to count... it's not good for my mental state

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