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Thread: How much is a Credit Worth in 3303? (or: How does money work?)

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Mal604 View Post (Source)
    Of all the bases considered here, I like beer the most

    For a true galactic civilization, gold will be dirt cheap and biowaste will be super expensive. Gold is just metal, we know for a fact there is almost infinite supply of it in the universe. With biowaste, we know for a fact that so far only one planet in the universe contains it, and that availability of bacterial biofloc and nutrients will be the hard limit for terraforming even if given unlimited feed of organic molecules. So biowaste should be much more expensive than gold.

    But beer on the other hand, you always know where you are with beer. Discretionary item with supply and demand balanced out by population - there's only so much people can drink, and that quantity is roughly constant.
    That is a damned good point. I'd never considered that microbial matter compatible with earth life might actually be tremendously rare and valuable, especially to frontier colonies and closed-environment stations.
    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  2. #32
    When your shipping a tonne of gold, it's not 1000kg of gold, it's in a container 1m x 1m x1m (or the equivalent volume), there's nowhere near 1000kg of gold, most of it's packaging
    [/SIGPIC][IMG]http://imgur.com/IcgL0Yf[IMG][/SIGPIC]

  3. #33
    I'm not touching volume, because it doesn't make sense in ED world.
    Using $1300USD/troy oz of gold, and an avg price of gold in ED being 9500CR and presuming an ED ton is a metric ton, 1CR = $4399.60 USD.
    Approximately.
    31.103g / Toz
    1000Kg= 1000000g = 32151 Toz * $1300 = $41796300 USD

    $41796300 / CR 9500 = 4399.6 USD
    # apt-get purge engineers

    Why does the computer keep saying "Friendship Giant Sausage"?

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    I wish I could get a ton of AU for that.
    You've misplaced a decimal by three places, I believe.
    Ah I see you corrected later. Carry on.
    # apt-get purge engineers

    Why does the computer keep saying "Friendship Giant Sausage"?

  5. #35
    You can't use gold to compare currency, as gold isn't a particularly rare commodity in the ED universe.
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  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Cula-Ta View Post (Source)
    When your shipping a tonne of gold, it's not 1000kg of gold, it's in a container 1m x 1m x1m (or the equivalent volume), there's nowhere near 1000kg of gold, most of it's packaging
    Don't need much packaging.

    Total mass of the canister is 1 metric tone, but for a commodity like gold, probably only 1-5% of that mass is not gold.

  7. #37
    It's all the digital certificates that need to go with it.
    [/SIGPIC][IMG]http://imgur.com/IcgL0Yf[IMG][/SIGPIC]

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Impossible to say, as we don't know what the intrinsic value of a credit is worth in comparison to something tangible. But, assuming in 3300 they still use Gold as a base for value...

    1t of gold = 1000 kilograms = 9,417 credits.
    So 1 gram of gold = 9.417 credits.

    Compared to today's real world gold prices:

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    So 1 gram of gold = £32 (or $42.59)
    We cannot use any commodity as a basis for comparison due to the lack of scarcity of any of the resources.
    A Cmdr can mine more gold than all the gold on earth in a week.
    And keeping doing that for as long as they like as there are functionally limitless pristine mining sites in and around the bubble

    Add to the fact that on average you pay less for fuel at the pump than fuel on the commodities market and ships cost less per ton that buying the raw materials on the commodities market means there is no sense in the economy at all
    CR are completely meaningless fiat currency that only has value as Cmdrs like bigger numbers

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    We cannot use any commodity as a basis for comparison due to the lack of scarcity of any of the resources.
    A Cmdr can mine more gold than all the gold on earth in a week.
    And keeping doing that for as long as they like as there are functionally limitless pristine mining sites in and around the bubble

    Add to the fact that on average you pay less for fuel at the pump than fuel on the commodities market and ships cost less per ton that buying the raw materials on the commodities market means there is no sense in the economy at all
    CR are completely meaningless fiat currency that only has value as Cmdrs like bigger numbers
    Oh god fourth wall, fourth wallllllll.
    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    ships cost less per ton that buying the raw materials on the commodities market means there is no sense in the economy at all
    How So?

    A stock Anaconda costs 138Kcr/ton, a T9 60Kcr/ton.
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  11. #41
    I'm of the view that in 3303, a "ton" is the standard term for whatever amount fits into a cargo canister, including anything else the cargo requires - radiation shielding, environmental controls, life support and so on. Different mass for each commodity, but standardised across the galaxy.


    and then some, basically.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by OfftheRails View Post (Source)
    I'm of the view that in 3303, a "ton" is the standard term for whatever amount fits into a cargo canister, including anything else the cargo requires - radiation shielding, environmental controls, life support and so on. Different mass for each commodity, but standardised across the galaxy.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tainer_T11.jpg
    and then some, basically.
    I believe it's supposed to be that it's standard to ship a ton of materiel in one of those cylindrical cans. So some are almost empty with a small quantity of whatever suspended in the middle (I assume for general mass distribution) and other cans will be jam packed.

    It's supposed to be done that way so all the cargo handling can be standardised across the board.

    Those containers are big though, I bet that pic isn't far off the actual size.
    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Limoncello Lizard View Post (Source)
    How So?

    A stock Anaconda costs 138Kcr/ton, a T9 60Kcr/ton.
    Sidewinder costs 32,000 CR

    This includes
    25 ton Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities
    2 Class one gimballed pulse laser
    2E Power Plant
    2E Frameshift drive
    2E Thrusters
    2E Shield Generator
    1E Power Distributor
    1E Life Support
    1C Fuel Tank
    1E Sensors
    1E Basic Discovery Scanner

    Remove all those and the 25 tons of Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities is 445 CR which is less than most metals, computers, robotics and conductors per Ton wholesale, and unworked

    And the Models themselves the 2E Power Plant is 2.5 tons of power generator for a retail cost of 1782 credits when the cost of 2.5 tons of power generators wholesale and uninstalled is by the galactic average 2.5x 711 CR ~1777

    The whole sale for the components and materials is so close to the purchase price they leave no room for labour overheads and profit on the retail price, especially in systems where the base commodities sell higher than galactic average but the ships and modules sell for the same price

    The Galactic average of Hydrogen fuel is 147 CR whole sale
    To refuel a ship is costs ~50 CR a ton retail

  14. #44
    As we seem to be straying away from the original question I thought I'd weigh in: In 3303 a credit is worth, wait for it...ONE CREDIT.
    I know what the OP wanted to know but as others have noted, the entire ED economy isn't one, really, and so in the absence of alternative currencies in the ED galaxy, there is no other answer.
    Except possibly "whatever you'd like it to be....."

    Mind you, with explorers effectively 'generating' new money out of nowhere all the time, the inflationary pressure ought to be extreme. So maybe it's just as well the 'economy' is illusory.

  15. #45
    In terms of gameplay: credits are inflated and owning an Anaconda is nothing special. Owning several fully A-rated ships and fully modded is average. Owning multiple copies of several fully A-rated ships fully modded is rich.

    I'd say roughly 5 billion credits in assets and atleast 10 fully modded ships for exploring, PvE, PvP, trading, mining, multipurpose ... is the minimum to be considered rich.

    Previously, owning a fully A-rated Anaconda (when there hasn't bee na Corvette or a Cutter) was considered rich but now credit payouts have been significantly buffed and materials has been throwed into the game, whic hare FAR more expensive than credits.
    I'd say a single CIF would be 1-2 million credits. Military super caps 3-5 million credits and MEF maybe 500k-1m credits if we could trade them like in any other given MMO.
    Imagine, a new player stumbling across a HGE collecting 15 imperial shieldings would instantly have 15m credits. Would be a nice way of making money TBH but make the task challenging instead of waiting for RNG USS to spawn while idling or doing nothing.


    But credits converted to real cash in a realistic scenario? I believe you could say that, even though there is a nice short math calculation of direct credit to dollar transfer, we must consider the difference in time and population. 1300 years ahead of us and way more than 'just' 8 billion humans live in space, ALL SHARING THE SAME CURRENCY, credits.
    I'd even say that 1$=1cr or even 10$=1cr because we must consider the material and the population that backs up the value of credits. There is far more to be traded in Elite than there can be traded on earth alone and thus credit value increases with increasing number of trade goods and population.
    Commander Crimson Kaim, hunting imperials since 3301!
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