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Thread: How much is a Credit Worth in 3303? (or: How does money work?)

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Impossible to say, as we don't know what the intrinsic value of a credit is worth in comparison to something tangible. But, assuming in 3300 they still use Gold as a base for value...

    1t of gold = 1000 kilograms = 9,417 credits.
    So 1 gram of gold = 9.417 credits.

    Compared to today's real world gold prices:

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    So 1 gram of gold = £32 (or $42.59)
    Seeing as I'm such a standup fella, I'll buy two tonnes of (real world not in game) gold from you at twice that rate each, so I'll give you $165,000USD for two tonnes. But I think you're gonna struggle to fulfill that order, as by my maths gold is $1000USD an ounce, 35.274 ounces in a kilogramme, and a thousand kilogrammes in a tonne, at a throusand bucks a piece. So a tonne of gold today is going to cost (~$1000*35,274=$35,274,000USD each)

    So on that basis one credit is quite a significant amount of money, being equivalent to 35.274Million 21st century usd dollars divided by 9,417 equalling an exchange rate of around $3745.78 21st centruy USD per 34th century credit.

    Take that exchange rate, multiply it by the 1.5Million the OP was offered to move three passengers two jumpa equates to 1/4million credits per passenger per jump, or $936,444,727.62USD per passenger per jump, or $5,618,668,365.72USD for the mission.

  2. #47
    Seeing the Price of entry-Level ships vs. the number of ships actually flying compared to the galaxy Population, I can only come to one conclusion: Credits is a space-only currency existing only for galaxy-wide trade. The local currencies on the planets are different from one planet to another. This theory is also backed by the fact that we have very various political and legals constructs from one System to another, some of them being antagonistic to such monetary Systems. Only very rich Systems like Sol have a similar currency that can hold its own against credits.

    So credits are an extremely strong space currency generally having a very high Exchange rate with local currencies. It is also a very stable currency that has a very high demand planet-side, and is therefore very difficult to gather there. It's a bit like the US-Dollar in the third world nowadays. With one credit, on most planets, you can live a month or so. But in space, it is exchanged en masse between the space-faring elite we, members of the Pilot federation, belong to.

    Also, Price of Gold must have sky-rocketed, because it is massively used as Radiation and thermic shields for space-structures and buildings on non-athmospheric planets. Also, Water is rare in space, and transporting it from a planet is expensive because of the high amount of energy needed to reach escape velocity with such a load.

    OK this can only be a clumsy attempt at an explation, seen how many inconsistencies are still left. To ask for too much
    Zorgon Peterson Foxtrot Romeo India over o7

    My Explorer Profile on EDSM

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    Sidewinder costs 32,000 CR

    This includes
    25 ton Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities
    2 Class one gimballed pulse laser
    2E Power Plant
    2E Frameshift drive
    2E Thrusters
    2E Shield Generator
    1E Power Distributor
    1E Life Support
    1C Fuel Tank
    1E Sensors
    1E Basic Discovery Scanner

    Remove all those and the 25 tons of Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities is 445 CR which is less than most metals, computers, robotics and conductors per Ton wholesale, and unworked

    And the Models themselves the 2E Power Plant is 2.5 tons of power generator for a retail cost of 1782 credits when the cost of 2.5 tons of power generators wholesale and uninstalled is by the galactic average 2.5x 711 CR ~1777

    The whole sale for the components and materials is so close to the purchase price they leave no room for labour overheads and profit on the retail price, especially in systems where the base commodities sell higher than galactic average but the ships and modules sell for the same price

    The Galactic average of Hydrogen fuel is 147 CR whole sale
    To refuel a ship is costs ~50 CR a ton retail
    Pretty awesome calculations there!

    It's possible the ships (or any ship a Commander purchases maybe) is partially subsidised by the Pilots Federation. Muggles may pay a lot more for ships...
    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Friedenreich Xante View Post (Source)
    Seeing the Price of entry-Level ships vs. the number of ships actually flying compared to the galaxy Population, I can only come to one conclusion: Credits is a space-only currency existing only for galaxy-wide trade. The local currencies on the planets are different from one planet to another. This theory is also backed by the fact that we have very various political and legals constructs from one System to another, some of them being antagonistic to such monetary Systems. Only very rich Systems like Sol have a similar currency that can hold its own against credits.

    So credits are an extremely strong space currency generally having a very high Exchange rate with local currencies. It is also a very stable currency that has a very high demand planet-side, and is therefore very difficult to gather there. It's a bit like the US-Dollar in the third world nowadays. With one credit, on most planets, you can live a month or so. But in space, it is exchanged en masse between the space-faring elite we, members of the Pilot federation, belong to.

    Also, Price of Gold must have sky-rocketed, because it is massively used as Radiation and thermic shields for space-structures and buildings on non-athmospheric planets. Also, Water is rare in space, and transporting it from a planet is expensive because of the high amount of energy needed to reach escape velocity with such a load.

    OK this can only be a clumsy attempt at an explation, seen how many inconsistencies are still left. To ask for too much
    That's a pretty cool concept too.

    I could imagine that each system or maybe even faction has its own currency worked out however it makes sense to, so if you're an employee of Sirius Corp you get paid in Sirius Corp scrip. Then if you want to buy something from say Archenar your money would automatically get converted via some galactic currency exchange system into Imperial Credits. Similar to how if you purchase something from overseas these days your transaction gets converted automatically.

    Makes sense that there's some sort of universal currency that's used for shipping and trade to keep it simple, and local transactions are converted to and from it. Similar to how oil is sold in dollars only.
    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  5. #50
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    I believe it's supposed to be that it's standard to ship a ton of materiel in one of those cylindrical cans. So some are almost empty with a small quantity of whatever suspended in the middle (I assume for general mass distribution) and other cans will be jam packed.

    It's supposed to be done that way so all the cargo handling can be standardised across the board.

    Those containers are big though, I bet that pic isn't far off the actual size.
    The tank in the picture above looks like it was designed to the specifications of a 20' standard ISO container, which are 8' wide, 8.5' high, and 20' long. The standard cargo unit in Elite: Dangerous is much smaller: one meter in diameter, and two meters long... just long enough that you can carry a human being in it. Coincidentally, that container also happens to be the just right size to carry a ton of grain in it.

    I hate to say it, the whole "one ton per container" idea starts breaking down once you start talking about commodities that are less dense that about 600 kg/m3. That's the point where you start having to ship dead weight, just to bring the weight up to one metric tonne. Fortunately, there's only one commodity in the game that falls below this threshold: liquid hydrogen (aka hydrogen fuel). At best, the Elite standard shipping container can carry only 100 kilograms of liquid hydrogen in it. Those containers need to be ten times bigger to actually be able to carry an actual ton of hydrogen fuel.

    Hmmm...

    Wait!!! Maybe THAT's why our ships seem to be so light weight, with tiny cargo holds, relative to their volume. Our ships include massive tanks to transport hydrogen fuel, which can only be accessed when either a cargo rack or fuel tank is installed. NOW everything it makes perfect sense.

  6. #51
    Originally Posted by Cula-Ta View Post (Source)
    When your shipping a tonne of gold, it's not 1000kg of gold, it's in a container 1m x 1m x1m (or the equivalent volume), there's nowhere near 1000kg of gold, most of it's packaging
    Actually cargo cannisters are cylinders 2m long 1m diameter. Apart from which gold has a density of 19320kg/m^3 meaning that would only take about 50.5Litres of gold to make the magic one tonne. your proposed 1m^3 cannister would hold a thousand litres so be able to hold 19.32 tonnes of gold minus the packaging. However the canon dimensions of cargo canisters add up to about 1.57m^3 so would way 30.35T if made of solid gold.

    *they should probably block real life engineers like me from chiming in on these threads as I and presumably others like me totally mythbust the game in scenes like this*

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    ...Thoughts?
    Well it depends on the exchange rate, silly!

    You get more bang for your bucks credits exchanging into Imperial Jewelem, less so for the Federal Slabwong, with nearly parity for the Alliance's Hubrist, and the Independents just use credits (of course, the lazy sods).

    As best I know no-one's worked out what the exchange rate is for whatever the Thargoids use, if indeed they use currency at all. At least, no-one's ever come back to tell.

    That helped, right?
    CMDR PiLhEaD

  8. #53
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    Sidewinder costs 32,000 CR

    This includes
    25 ton Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities
    2 Class one gimballed pulse laser
    2E Power Plant
    2E Frameshift drive
    2E Thrusters
    2E Shield Generator
    1E Power Distributor
    1E Life Support
    1C Fuel Tank
    1E Sensors
    1E Basic Discovery Scanner

    Remove all those and the 25 tons of Spaceframe and Control system and Crew Amenities is 445 CR which is less than most metals, computers, robotics and conductors per Ton wholesale, and unworked

    And the Models themselves the 2E Power Plant is 2.5 tons of power generator for a retail cost of 1782 credits when the cost of 2.5 tons of power generators wholesale and uninstalled is by the galactic average 2.5x 711 CR ~1777

    The whole sale for the components and materials is so close to the purchase price they leave no room for labour overheads and profit on the retail price, especially in systems where the base commodities sell higher than galactic average but the ships and modules sell for the same price

    The Galactic average of Hydrogen fuel is 147 CR whole sale
    To refuel a ship is costs ~50 CR a ton retail
    I've always assumed that there were benefits to being a member of the Pilot's Federation, above and beyond the Free Sidewinder that is available to everyone if they need it, and thumbing your nose at system authorities when you break the law. Discounts on small ships and fuel costs seem to be one of them. Who says crime doesn't pay?

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    Pretty awesome calculations there!

    It's possible the ships (or any ship a Commander purchases maybe) is partially subsidised by the Pilots Federation. Muggles may pay a lot more for ships...
    All out of rep at the moment, so have some virtual rep instead.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by Darkfyre99 View Post (Source)

    And for the record, my character sold herself into Imperial Slavery for an education, a Sidewinder, and most importantly the money to join the Pilot's Federation. I personally considered the last one to be both the most expensive AND the most useful. There are some things money can buy, but membership in a galaxy-spanning criminal cabal is priceless.
    That's all well and good, but the real question then becomes:

    What kinda slavery?

    Yours Aye

    Mark H
    //// sicut id facere debetis ////
    //// Do as you *ought* to - Not as you want to ////
    //// CMDR Hollywood: Dangerous; Tycoon; ELITE; Lieutenant Commander; Federation Freelancer/Felatio Winters; Multi-role ships - Purple Anaconda "Rozinante"; Purple Python "Righteous Glory"; Christmas Black Asp Explorer "Do As You Ought II" ////

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by Limoncello Lizard View Post (Source)
    You can't use gold to compare currency, as gold isn't a particularly rare commodity in the ED universe.
    Unless FD cares to explain what ED "money" is based on, if anything, I'm having fun.
    Could base it on an individual's capacity for energy/goods/service output over the span of their life, but have no way to tie that to the present set of economics, so...
    # apt-get purge engineers

    Why does the computer keep saying "Friendship Giant Sausage"?

  12. #57
    From my extensive calculations while eating peanuts. A 3303 year credit is worth 26.3

    Flimley

  13. #58
    Originally Posted by Darkfyre99 View Post (Source)
    Wait!!! Maybe THAT's why our ships seem to be so light weight, with tiny cargo holds, relative to their volume. Our ships include massive tanks to transport hydrogen fuel, which can only be accessed when either a cargo rack or fuel tank is installed. NOW everything it makes perfect sense.
    Huh, I always thought those cargo cans were larger for some reason, but now you mention it of course they're not, you can see them on planet surfaces sitting next to cryopods which are basically the same size.

    I also found this cool concept art picture though I think these cans are at least 50% too small:



    I like your idea though, you mean it's like ship ballast... Our ships keep essentially "extra" mass on-board in 'ballast tanks' to ensure the light containers to ensure the mass distribution stays the same regardless of how much you carry. This explains why a dry-weight ship handles the same as a fully loaded ship maybe.

    Originally Posted by henry1491 View Post (Source)
    Well it depends on the exchange rate, silly!

    You get more bang for your bucks credits exchanging into Imperial Jewelem, less so for the Federal Slabwong, with nearly parity for the Alliance's Hubrist, and the Independents just use credits (of course, the lazy sods).

    As best I know no-one's worked out what the exchange rate is for whatever the Thargoids use, if indeed they use currency at all. At least, no-one's ever come back to tell.

    That helped, right?
    I thought everyone knows that Thargoid standard currency unit is the Plumbus

    We already have EvE online, we do not need another game that's "just" about space ships. Please, please don't be close minded and refuse to accept that something new can also be something good. Give Space Legs and other similar "not space ship" game updates a chance to succeed. Be open minded, look to the future and see what the game can be, and help make that happen.

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by Kaltern View Post (Source)
    Impossible to say, as we don't know what the intrinsic value of a credit is worth in comparison to something tangible. But, assuming in 3300 they still use Gold as a base for value...

    1t of gold = 1000 kilograms = 9,417 credits.
    So 1 gram of gold = 9.417 credits.

    Compared to today's real world gold prices:

    1t of gold = £32,200. (or $42,259)
    So 1 gram of gold = £32 (or $42.59)
    It that a metric ton, a US ton (2000 pounds) or an Imperial Ton (2240 pounds)?

    That works, if you're talking metric tons.

    But then, Precious Metals, like gold, are weighed in Troy Ounces, where 1 Troy Ounce = 0.0685714 pounds, or 0.0311034638402 kg.

    So, 1 Metric Ton of gold would really be 2204.62170326 Troy Ounces, at at the current price, $1,327.50 * 2204.62170326 = $2,926,635.31107765

    Methinks yer math be off.

    ---

    That aside, the value of the Credit is determined by the number of scalp flakes, per square centimeter in Sandro's hat, times the number of beard hairs in Ed's keyboard, times Pi.

    Everything gets multiplied by Pi somewhere.

  15. #60
    Originally Posted by Jayridium View Post (Source)
    Seeing as I'm such a standup fella, I'll buy two tonnes of (real world not in game) gold from you at twice that rate each, so I'll give you $165,000USD for two tonnes. But I think you're gonna struggle to fulfill that order, as by my maths gold is $1000USD an ounce, 35.274 ounces in a kilogramme, and a thousand kilogrammes in a tonne, at a throusand bucks a piece. So a tonne of gold today is going to cost (~$1000*35,274=$35,274,000USD each)

    So on that basis one credit is quite a significant amount of money, being equivalent to 35.274Million 21st century usd dollars divided by 9,417 equalling an exchange rate of around $3745.78 21st centruy USD per 34th century credit.

    Take that exchange rate, multiply it by the 1.5Million the OP was offered to move three passengers two jumpa equates to 1/4million credits per passenger per jump, or $936,444,727.62USD per passenger per jump, or $5,618,668,365.72USD for the mission.
    You are using the wrong basis - gold is dirt cheap in Elite Dangerous. For simplicity, say gold is 10,000 credits per unit, and beer is 200, ballpark. That means gold is only 50 times more expensive than beer on a unit basis, or that if you wanted to buy half a liter of beer you would need 10 grams of gold ($400-$500 for a mug of beer at current prices, clearly gold is useless in the future).

    Now that we established the superiority of beer, let's look at missions. Three people pay 1.5 million to go somewhere in space. That money represents 7500 tons of beer, or 7.5 million liters. Sounds like a lot, but what does beer cost today? Say about $2 a liter for cheap stuff? So 7.5 million liters of beer is $15 million today. Last I checked, Russians were charging $20 million for space tourist to go to orbit, about ballpark what Elite missions offer, so 1.5 million credits to go sightseeing the galaxy seems very reasonable if expresses in the correct basis. Space tourists today pay about the same in beer money.

    TL, DR - beer is superior to all, always truthful, and you just can't go wrong with it. Forget gold, beer is all you need.
    Backer # 52482

    CMDR Rodent of Usual Size

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