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Thread: Guardians Discussions

  1. #106
    Originally Posted by Thatchinho View Post (Source)
    Nice work! Worth reporting it over here:

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ata-Collection

    Someone on there should know where the spreadsheet is too.
    I put all new Brain Trees on Cannon spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1210897867

  2. #107
    Originally Posted by Thatchinho View Post (Source)
    Nice work! Worth reporting it over here:

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ata-Collection

    Someone on there should know where the spreadsheet is too.
    Originally Posted by Baton View Post (Source)
    I put all new Brain Trees on Cannon spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1210897867
    Done.


  3. #108

  4. #109
    Hey all you Guardian experts, I threw this at the group looking at Thargoid Symbology (The three layered mark on their ships), but I'd like to hear your thoughts from the Guardian point of view. The symbols have 3 secondary ring variants, and 19 tertiary ring variants. When i heard these numbers I immediately thought of Guardian ruins. There are 3 types: Alpha, Beta, and Gamma with Beta and Gamma having 19 logged variants. Alpha has 17 so far. I've had doubts thargoids were related to guardians for a while but the numbers are way to coincidental. Both share 3 high tiers, and 19 sub tiers. Could be nothing, but interesting enough to note.

  5. #110

  6. #111
    Originally Posted by ModishNouns View Post (Source)
    Could we have a link to the brain trees spreadsheet in the OP please?
    You can use this form to submit your Brain Tree sites: https://goo.gl/UR1TZU

    It has a link at the top to the spreadsheet where all the info is gathered.

  7. #112
    Got interdicted by Groot today...I'm I in the right place to discuss Guardians?

  8. #113
    Maybe this is tin foil but:

    The Guardians created AI existing in the Monolith Network. Now, doesn't it strike you as odd that every single loading screen or panel has the same triangular loading pattern? If the Club / INRA knew about the Guardians long before we realised have they (and the Pilots Federation) derived all current software technology from this common source?

    Another implication is that the fuzzy 'trouble with AI' in the past might have been caused by mankind trying to use Guardian AI and failing to master it. Could it be that the Guardian AI is manipulating mankind to strike back at the Thargoids?

  9. #114
    Originally Posted by Rubbernuke View Post (Source)
    Maybe this is tin foil but:

    Another implication is that the fuzzy 'trouble with AI' in the past might have been caused by mankind trying to use Guardian AI and failing to master it. Could it be that the Guardian AI is manipulating mankind to strike back at the Thargoids?
    That's an interesting idea, I like it

  10. #115
    I'm still going through the FFE journals, since we're getting quite a lot of things from that come up in ED now (at least in general form) I thought it's worth looking through.

    I found these - they are from the part of the storyline that occurs if the player helps the Thargoids and they make peace with humanity, they then start sharing cultural data:


    ANOTHER SPECIES?

    M.C.S

    Further details of Thargoid cultural history are coming to light as the co-operative team on the trans-species ship currently sitting North of the Edge are able to communicate in more depth with our newly re-discovered galactic neighbours.

    They are, as predicted by Professor Innitu, inherently peaceable although there appears to have been a long history of warfare in the period before the beginning of what it so be renamed the First Trans-Galactic Conflict (previously known as the Thargoid Wars). In an era corresponding to the second millennium and expanding into the early part of the third, the Thargoids were in a constant state of armed conflict.

    What is not yet clear from the details made available is whether the war was inter or intra species - that is, whether Tharg was fighting Tharg (Different races? Different Species? Different cultures? Different politics?) for dominance of a small sector of space or whether there was another, unnamed species involved.

    IF the latter was the case, then we must ask ourselves the question: do they still exist? If so, how are they? If not, how and why were they destroyed?

    COMMON HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
    M.C.S

    Both sentient Galactic species share, it seems, a common history of violence. The difference is that whereas humanity confined itself to wiping out members of its own species in the hundreds of thousands in the name of religion and progress, the Thargoids wiped out an entire sentient species. The full details of the past are not clear yet. In fact, it is not entirely obvious whether the 'third race' is genuinely extinct or whether they have merely retreated out of range.

    The Thargoid's suggestion is that the third race is aggressive in intent, that it is being held back by fear of our joint technology and that it is likely to attack once more when it believes that its own technology has progressed to the point where it would win an all-out Galactic conflict. Their fear is that if the human/android race explores far beyond the current confines of inhabited space (as is likely once alien technology becomes widely available) then we may be at risk of attack and may even provoke a 'third race' attack on our relatively unprotected sector of the Galaxy.

    The alien inter-actors have been at pains to point out that they have no wish whatsoever to enter into any further conflict, with ourselves or any other sentient species and they would almost certainly avoid taking part in any such war unless their own home systems was under direct threat. That leaves us in an almost identical position to the one we were in a short time ago: there are sentients out there, we don't know where they are and we don't know what they want, but there's every chance that they will come and get us - sometime. In view of this, we advise that Federal citizens think carefully before travelling outwith the current safe zone.

  11. #116
    Originally Posted by Moribus View Post (Source)
    I'm still going through the FFE journals, since we're getting quite a lot of things from that come up in ED now (at least in general form) I thought it's worth looking through.

    I found these - they are from the part of the storyline that occurs if the player helps the Thargoids and they make peace with humanity, they then start sharing cultural data:


    ANOTHER SPECIES?

    M.C.S

    Further details of Thargoid cultural history are coming to light as the co-operative team on the trans-species ship currently sitting North of the Edge are able to communicate in more depth with our newly re-discovered galactic neighbours.

    They are, as predicted by Professor Innitu, inherently peaceable although there appears to have been a long history of warfare in the period before the beginning of what it so be renamed the First Trans-Galactic Conflict (previously known as the Thargoid Wars). In an era corresponding to the second millennium and expanding into the early part of the third, the Thargoids were in a constant state of armed conflict.

    What is not yet clear from the details made available is whether the war was inter or intra species - that is, whether Tharg was fighting Tharg (Different races? Different Species? Different cultures? Different politics?) for dominance of a small sector of space or whether there was another, unnamed species involved.

    IF the latter was the case, then we must ask ourselves the question: do they still exist? If so, how are they? If not, how and why were they destroyed?

    COMMON HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
    M.C.S

    Both sentient Galactic species share, it seems, a common history of violence. The difference is that whereas humanity confined itself to wiping out members of its own species in the hundreds of thousands in the name of religion and progress, the Thargoids wiped out an entire sentient species. The full details of the past are not clear yet. In fact, it is not entirely obvious whether the 'third race' is genuinely extinct or whether they have merely retreated out of range.

    The Thargoid's suggestion is that the third race is aggressive in intent, that it is being held back by fear of our joint technology and that it is likely to attack once more when it believes that its own technology has progressed to the point where it would win an all-out Galactic conflict. Their fear is that if the human/android race explores far beyond the current confines of inhabited space (as is likely once alien technology becomes widely available) then we may be at risk of attack and may even provoke a 'third race' attack on our relatively unprotected sector of the Galaxy.

    The alien inter-actors have been at pains to point out that they have no wish whatsoever to enter into any further conflict, with ourselves or any other sentient species and they would almost certainly avoid taking part in any such war unless their own home systems was under direct threat. That leaves us in an almost identical position to the one we were in a short time ago: there are sentients out there, we don't know where they are and we don't know what they want, but there's every chance that they will come and get us - sometime. In view of this, we advise that Federal citizens think carefully before travelling outwith the current safe zone.
    Thanks for sharing.

    The Thargoids back then were portrayed as being more...well, understandable than they are now. Do we think the third race are The Guardians?

  12. #117
    Originally Posted by Maligno View Post (Source)
    Thanks for sharing.

    The Thargoids back then were portrayed as being more...well, understandable than they are now. Do we think the third race are The Guardians?
    I wondered that yes, or at least maybe something Fdev had in mind and that developed into the Guardians?

  13. #118
    Originally Posted by Rubbernuke View Post (Source)
    Maybe this is tin foil but:

    The Guardians created AI existing in the Monolith Network. Now, doesn't it strike you as odd that every single loading screen or panel has the same triangular loading pattern? If the Club / INRA knew about the Guardians long before we realised have they (and the Pilots Federation) derived all current software technology from this common source?

    Another implication is that the fuzzy 'trouble with AI' in the past might have been caused by mankind trying to use Guardian AI and failing to master it. Could it be that the Guardian AI is manipulating mankind to strike back at the Thargoids?
    The theory I have is actually very spot on to this. Though some of it is conjecture, there is a lot of unexplained or implausible circumstances to the disappearance of the guardians.

    So here are some things that I want you to keep in mind. Also have patience with my explanation and typos as I'm currently typing from a phone.

    So we know the guardians were split into a few categories. You have:

    Guardians with implanted AI (Exiles)
    Guardian who were religious puritans against AI use at all.(Zealots)
    The AI/s that grew sentience (Guardian AI)
    The AI sympathizers whom fought against the Zealots (...Eh let's just call these Guardians)

    So take a look at that and some obvious things come into mind. The most obvious and popular thought is that the Exiles could still be alive. Also that they could have possibly returned to cast vengeance on their breathren. Also that they could be the ones that possibly evolved into Thargoids. Now before I go down with my theory let me point out some inconsistencies.

    Ram Tah is able to pull Guardian history from when they were nomads and hunters.

    Yet, Guardians somehow forgot the knowledge how to maintain their shield technology (That's also dependent on how you read the entry. To me it reads as if it were an overtime problem.)

    Though we can detect Guardian Sites on non-atmospheric planets, we have had ZERO detection of any Guardian structure on possibly what they would consider "Earth like worlds".

    Ram Tah says Guardians fought each other through more automated systems, which in turn caused them to sterilize themselves and hence their eventual destruction as something came in and mopped them up.

    Alright let's start with the automated systems bits. Religious fanatics used automated weapons.... While the Guardians used AI. That right there should be your first red flag. For all intents and purposes the AI users would have had a huge upper hand.

    However I think that perhaps the Zealots (or I envision) were an Elite caste of sorts. Stronger, faster, smarter, perhaps through genetic manipulation. Else there is no way these dudes would have even had a chance. Even with sheer numbers. Having an AI with quantum computing, is like having a human being that can learn anything. Do anything (within the realm of its constraints) it can adapt to. You put this AI in an advance setting with the supercharged equivalence of Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and you have yourself the galaxy's smartest and most insidious hacker/virus.

    In other words anything that wasn't hardwired controlled could get hacked.

    Now the entries said they pretty much sterilized themselves. Think about that for a second. That is a VERY Plausible outcome for a race with advanced weaponry.... Stuck on ONE planet. But when you have a spacefaring species with multiple outposts, and possibly planets (because I don't think they probably stuck to non-atmospheric), every planet added to that equation would greatly reduce that number much more when systems are involved.

    Now before you go on to say that well they had a long standing war and etc etc. Think about the logistics involved in that. Both factions would need to launch a simultaneous attack that had to land (after travelling long.... Very long distances, going through system defenses... Not expending its fuel) at the same time. With the same type of payload.

    That is to say two morally opposed factions had to use the same type weapons, on each other with one having an advanced targeting solution capability. Dude those Zealots were bad arses...

    So now... These two morally opposed factions said FU to each other. It was ok to genetically alter things. It was ok to nuke each other.... But we can't touch our no no spots? Does that make sense to you? Even if the government of both factions were vehemently against it... There would be some rebel scientist somewhere saying "Duck the system, I have to save our race." We humans in current age have taken leaps in advancing our reproduction technology, I could not imagine what these guys could do since they could do it BEFORE they reached their space age.

    Now, let's broach the subject that they were mopped up. In the above scenarios I explained how ludicrous it is to have the idea that the Zealots, were even holding a flame to the Guardians. But let's say they did. Would they not by their nature have come together as "Guardians" to defend each other from this foreign enemy. Ages of advanced technology at their disposition. Untold amount of systems colonized, and these guys got wiped. Not a word in their databases about this new enemy... Not a word about their coming together. Nothing... But we found out history of their pron and cave age? Does that make sense from a race whose sole evidence of existence is a multitude of databses? Even if they were attacked by a foreign entity, the sheer logistics is an impossibility.

    Unless of course you had a discontent AI. Seeing no hope for its future with its maker. Even the risk that sympathizers's children could one day again turn on them. You remember all that mumbo jumbo about logistics being a nuisance to get around. Well an AI, COULD plan strikes simultaneously. Not only that they could self destruct weaponry, down shields, and defenses, etc.

    I believe the Guardian AI is the entity that mopped up the Guardians and the Zealots. Very cliche if you ask me.

    Now let's take into account the actual name of Guardians. How were they named that? Ram Tah. Why? Because they cooperated to guard themselves.......?....? What. Why not the protectors... Or the cooperative? Or the government (as protecting its people its what a government should do).
    Meta gaming here I think FDEV might have shown their hand early.

    Now what do they guard? I don't know, it could be some other hidden secret that they may have guarded... Like force use... Or portals... I don't know. We don't know, but certainly they weren't being their brother's keepers.

    But now take a lonely AI or AIs. 2 million years old. Witnessing the end of everything around it. Much time to reflect in solitude.

    As mentioned earlier by another poster, COULD this AI have grown regrets about it's choices. But then be doomed to live/die into eternity unable to do anything about it?

    But WAIT! Now comes some space faring monkeys. Ooooo what's this... Wi-Fi? Wow such cruddy security system... Who are they. WOW, viscious little duckers aren't they... I've seen this before. Perhaps... I can guide them... Guard them. Let me find their leaders... Oh hello fellow... Oh wait your a puppet... Oh hey Mr shadowmam. Hey do what I tell you and well get along fine... No... Oh hey check your bank account... Oh is that a spaceship about to run into your window. Oh wr listening now? Alright, as long as you follow well get along fine... Anything you want is yours... Just follow. Now while rogue ai is cliche... Redeeming ai is sort of new.


    Sounds unlikely right. Remember those Thargoid crashed ship sites. How did they like that ancient relic inserted into their system?

  14. #119
    Also note that a lot of uniforms / decoration use triangular motifs too: a hidden message of allegiance?

    Could it be that the AI simply views organics as a menace, manipulated the Guardians to kill each other, is doing the same to humanity but can't hurt the Thargoids due to them not using 'traditional' technology (biological computers being incompatible?) Might explain why the Thargoids react so badly to Guardian artefacts. The Thargoids might be warning us that the Guardians are the biggest threat, while the Guardian AI is trying to get humans to kill the Thargoids to wipe out all biological life.

  15. #120
    Yeah, this is where our views split off. If anything there is more evidence for Thargoids being hostile. To include events in books. Very insect like they are. Almost primal. Where as the Guardians had many similarities to humans in the sense of having religion, being environmentally friendly(sorta), respecting life (sorta). Redeemable qualities that probably would have rubbed off an AI growing sentience.

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