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Thread: Five Identical CGs, Five Identical Mistakes

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    But it is their choice, isn't it?

    It looks like FD wants to give player a choice here. Is that bad?
    If the choices were roughly equal, then it's not bad. But the choices aren't equal. This is on the level of choosing between being a guest at a banquet, or having a rabid wolverine stuffed down your shirt.

    We've been given Thargoid content by Frontier, including a story, but with the way these CGs are set up:
    • If you care about the new tech's availability, you're going to haul cargo, not go to the Pleiades and chase Thargoids
    • If you care about credits, you're going to haul cargo, not go to the Pleiades and chase Thargoids
    • If you care about RP and the story, you're still likely to haul cargo, not go to the Pleiades and chase Thargoids. Just not as likely as the first two.

  2. #32
    FD won't make decision for you to engage. You choose not to. That's your choice not FD.
    When FD design a series of CGs explicitly asking for Thargoid Materials (in most cases), and it succeeds owing to the fact nobody actually delivered Thargoid Materials, that's entirely FD's choice, and a completely illogical one at that.

    If the choices were roughly equal, then it's not bad. But the choices aren't equal. This is on the level of choosing between being a guest at a banquet, or having a rabid wolverine stuffed down your shirt.
    This. A badly designed set of choices is no choice at all.


  3. #33
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    That's rather cynical and myoptian view on things isn't it? I can try to rattle Thargoids with taking their samples AND then return and contribute to CG with goods too. You can do both things.

    As someone with less time I would take on Thargoids even I most likely won't survive.

    It is still a choice. If people grind game, FD should not force them to change their ways. It is also their choice to engage or not.
    No, it is about balance, a major issue of this game since launch. As it is now the reward/hour distribution is all over the place and there is very little correlation with risk, i.e. there is no working risk/reward balance in this game. These CG are a great example because the imbalance is on the level of single CG. But it is the same problem with missions, where hauling missions pay similar CR and take less time than combat missions that require time management, are harder to complete (eg if illegal and authority gets involved), and can easily lead to ship destruction if one is not careful.

    This imbalance is one of my main gripes with the game. Not only because it discourages me from taking the missions that are more fun, but also mainly because it is unrealistic and feels like a broken economy.

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    FD won't make decision for you to engage. You choose not to. That's your choice not FD.
    Agreed, so I have. Fortunately there is a properly thought out CG also running. I'm going to do that one.
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  5. #35
    It's just that I prefer games where I can believe in the illusion that the actions of my virtual counterpart actually matter. This Aegis CG's have failed to deliver this illusion to me. I don't do CG's "just for fun" - becouse for me they are not fun, they are a repetitive haul-fest at the best.

    For you comanders who have fun with them: Good luck - may the solar wind's be with you!

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Arkadi View Post (Source)
    It's just that I prefer games where I can believe in the illusion that the actions of my virtual counterpart actually matter.
    Yeah, that.

    The Winged Hussars are welcome to a boatload of booze
    Dem white knights nerfed muh mershn!

  7. #37
    tl;dr The design of these CGs is literally forcing players who want to meaningfully contribute to *not* get involved with the new 2.4 content, instead just hauling bland market commodities.
    No one is forced to do, or not do, anything. It is a personal choice.
    By the same argument you would say that traders are forced to always carry slaves or precious metals because the profits are so much higher than biowaste.
    But I spent loads of time hauling tea and coffee through choice (it fitted with my idea of what my Commander was about at the time), and had a lot of fun.

    Participating in the Aegis CGs by obtaining the difficult materials will not reward you financially (its not about that), but will give you a richer game experience (it is about that).
    "If you ask me,...THE GALAXY IS GOING TO POT!" - Salvor Hardin.

  8. #38
    Participating in the Aegis CGs by obtaining the difficult materials will not reward you financially (its not about that), but will give you a richer game experience (it is about that).
    Incorrect. There could be no CG credit rewards and all cargo delivered for the CG are donated. I'd still do a CG like that.

    CG's are meant to provide a richer game experience by giving a common goal to work towards. Any credit rewards are just icing.

    I have no hesitation claiming that, if the CG's remained as they are currently designed, but for some reason all participants recovered Thargoid tissue samples, the CG would fail to reach Tier 1. The success of these CGs is entirely dependent on people shipping market-available goods.

    A richer game experience is tied innately to thinking you're making a difference. You make inconsequential difference shipping Thargoid Materials the way these CGs are designed.

    Thus
    By the same argument you would say that traders are forced to always carry slaves or precious metals because the profits are so much higher than biowaste.
    Is not a correct statement either. Profit aside, 600t of biowaste == 600t of precious metals or slaves, in terms of contribution to a CG. I would have no problem shipping biowaste rather than precious metals for such a CG. In fact, this was the case for a CG i submitted to FD, where you could ship Hydrogen Fuel, Personal Weapons, Battle Weapons or Nerve Agents.

    The issue is that 300t of tissue sample is infinitely more difficult and time-consuming to obtain than 300t of, say, beryllium. But this CG design means 300t of Tissue Samples == 300t of Beryllium, in terms of contribution. In the time it took to get 300t of tissue samples, you could haul 60,000t of Beryllium.

  9. #39
    Lol, all those philosophers and life coaches here. Yeah sure, it's about finding your balance in life and not simply about bad game design. It's bad from a gameplay and from an immersion/narrative point of view.

  10. #40
    It would be even better if they are adaptive depending on delivered goods.

    Let's take a CG for anti-xeno weapons that requires Micro-Controllers, Thargoid Hearts/carapace, Micro-Weave cooling hoses, Explosives and Heat resistant plating

    - Amount of micro-controllers/weave affect the available SIZE of weapons (easier to create LARGE weapons and science is needed for miniaturization)
    - Thargoid heart/carapace amounts affects the damage potential within a set amount of perimeters for each weapon size
    - Explosive and heat resistant plating could affect the speed of projectiles and missile damage

    It would make actual PLANNING for a CG something important and they could inject the finished weapon(s) based on our efforts, and each tonnage would count a lot more.

    Payout and participation could be more about percentage reached within each type of material delivered.
    CMDR: Thomas Ramirez

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Flavourless View Post (Source)
    No one is forced to do, or not do, anything. It is a personal choice.
    By the same argument you would say that traders are forced to always carry slaves or precious metals because the profits are so much higher than biowaste.
    But I spent loads of time hauling tea and coffee through choice (it fitted with my idea of what my Commander was about at the time), and had a lot of fun.

    Participating in the Aegis CGs by obtaining the difficult materials will not reward you financially (its not about that), but will give you a richer game experience (it is about that).
    If I get it right, the only way to enjoy this Aegis CG's is to rely on heavy roleplaying and pretending as if it would mean something if a higher tier would be reached or if I bring alien stuff or just regular trade-cargo. It's all in my mind then. Well I know this games:

    Let's play "let's pretend..." then. Oh wait, I don't even have to power up the game fot his. Let's pretend I am a space-ship commander and I bring valuabel cargo to this engineer so we can face the Thargoids and unravel the intergalactic conspiracy that creeps behind the curtains. Let's pretend I infiltrated "The Club" and I have seen to what ploy the Thargoids are playing and why they are colonizing the Pleiades. Let's just pretend I have done 20 cargo-runs already in between and I can continue to investigate the Alliance Laboratorys in the California Nebula...

  12. #42
    For the record, I donated a few tons of thargoid material to the first CG, saw that it didn't even help, commented to frontier that they should make these commodities worth getting by having them count for more towards the goal, and I have not contributed to the CGs since. Why would I? They need to fix them. They said that there would be a community driven story to this update and I'm just going to wait for that.

    Originally Posted by Snarfbuckle View Post (Source)
    It would be even better if they are adaptive depending on delivered goods.

    Let's take a CG for anti-xeno weapons that requires Micro-Controllers, Thargoid Hearts/carapace, Micro-Weave cooling hoses, Explosives and Heat resistant plating

    - Amount of micro-controllers/weave affect the available SIZE of weapons (easier to create LARGE weapons and science is needed for miniaturization)
    - Thargoid heart/carapace amounts affects the damage potential within a set amount of perimeters for each weapon size
    - Explosive and heat resistant plating could affect the speed of projectiles and missile damage

    It would make actual PLANNING for a CG something important and they could inject the finished weapon(s) based on our efforts, and each tonnage would count a lot more.

    Payout and participation could be more about percentage reached within each type of material delivered.
    Might also encourage people to contribute if they knew what the tiers actually unlocked. Frontier has been using this placeholder for telling us just that for... years. Filling it in couldn't take very long.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Goooost View Post (Source)
    For the record, I donated a few tons of thargoid material to the first CG, saw that it didn't even help, commented to frontier that they should make these commodities worth getting by having them count for more towards the goal, and I have not contributed to the CGs since. Why would I? They need to fix them. They said that there would be a community driven story to this update and I'm just going to wait for that.
    I think they understand that the CGs are the community driven story.

  14. #44
    Yea community driven story but the frontier way. I can make such stories every day by dozens. Its just a job for them i guess.

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Arkadi View Post (Source)
    If I get it right, the only way to enjoy this Aegis CG's is to rely on heavy roleplaying and pretending as if it would mean something if a higher tier would be reached or if I bring alien stuff or just regular trade-cargo. It's all in my mind then. Well I know this games:

    Let's play "let's pretend..." then. Oh wait, I don't even have to power up the game fot his. Let's pretend I am a space-ship commander and I bring valuabel cargo to this engineer so we can face the Thargoids and unravel the intergalactic conspiracy that creeps behind the curtains. Let's pretend I infiltrated "The Club" and I have seen to what ploy the Thargoids are playing and why they are colonizing the Pleiades. Let's just pretend I have done 20 cargo-runs already in between and I can continue to investigate the Alliance Laboratorys in the California Nebula...
    Or let's strap you full body VR to make it complete experience so you won't have to do anything at all, nothing let to imagination.

    What a boring experience that would be.
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