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Thread: Star Citizen Discussions v7

  1. #3991
    Originally Posted by shadragon View Post (Source)
    Crobert also had oversight from Microsoft who reigned in his ambitions to get the game out more than a year past the ETA.
    After kicking Crobert off the project it took another 3 years, twice the 18 months Croberts was claiming it would take to finish the game. That was with dropping most of the features that Croberts promised would be in the game. At the time of Croberts getting kicked off the project the game was already late to release. In total it took 3 times as long as Croberts said it would, and it was a shallow of the game promised. Thankfully Microsoft kicked him off the project and we ended up with a good game. Sadly I don't see that happening with SC.

  2. #3992
    As for the Freelancer - wasn't Roberts credited only in a "Special Thanks" category in the Freelancer credits?

  3. #3993
    I hope someone from the social sciences or political economy writes a book about Star Citizen. Its such a great microcosm where mechanism of social inequality can be made super transparent.

    Like you can draw a precise analogy for example between pay2win-games and inheritance. Like the radical free market ideology of 'everybody can become what he or she wants to become, they just have to work hard enough' does not work because it assumes a somehow level playing field. There actually is a more or less level playing field on the formal side of things, but then you have inheritance as a major mechanism to generate structural inequality. The amount of ressources you inherit define the headstart that you get, no inheritance, no headstart, just a lot of work. In the case of the game the real cash invested into the game, in acquiring in-game-ressources, acts like inherited capital in the real world. It generates an advantage for the guys who inherit stuff from the beginning, who already have ressources available to invest into the game whereas 'the poor' are restricted to their playing abilities, they don't have that headstart and are structurally disadvantaged, but also in the immediate interaction with the privileged.

    Now you have debates around that. And the privileged say stuff like they are actually not privileged, the privilege is a burden, or their fancy lifestyle is expensive and so is a burden too. The stereotypical factory owner makes several millions a year, but has to work his off to exploit his workers, what a miserable life. The sports car or spaceship looks cool, but costs a load of money to maintain, how pitiful. So the privileged are not only not privileged, they are actually poor, poorer than the poor and so you should not take from the wealthy and redistribute it, because that would make the happy poor unhappy by becoming privileged (or a similar conclusion).

  4. #3994
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    I am not "okay" with wasting my money. I expect a return value but I realize I am responsible for getting that. If I dont check or inform myself about certain things then I am the one to blame if I come out disappointed. I also dont label all bad movies "scams" because usually the approach in advertisement is "we dont lie, we simply dont tell you everything...." which many consider lying already but legally the advertisers are in the clear and in the end its you being too trustworthy, too superficial or not paying enough attention.

    CiG doesnt fall into this group because CR has openly LIED about a lot of things and with the current development I can see they are openly driving a scam in case none of the things they show or discuss is real. Time will tell but the risk for SC to be a scam is considerably higher because "they tried and failed" doesnt cut it for them. They have to at least provide the ruins on which the dream failed and they cant even do that. Thats the problem with todays consumers. They still demand a counter value and wont just part with their money for nothing. A few do and in CiGs case those "few" were enough to rack in millions which is spectacular and dangerous for the rest of the business. Spectacular because big publishers are trying to achieve this for years now and experience heavy resistance where Star Citizen simply "flew past the barricades" and dangerous because if this model proves to be successful we can expect it to be picked up and used widespread.

    I will never accept such an approach and I will always call it a scam because thats what it is for me. It doesnt matter if it started out as one or not. Its a scam by now. I cant prove it but I m 100% sure it is.

    .....

    I have just completed my mandatory refresher course on financial crime. One of the things I have to know to complete this course is the definition of fraud in UK law. A quick overview of the Fraud Act 2006 :

    · "Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.
    · "Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Act as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.
    · "Fraud by abuse of position" is defined by Section 4 of the Act as a case where a person occupies a position where they are expected to safeguard the financial interests of another person, and abuses that position; this includes cases where the abuse consisted of an omission rather than on overt act.

    If someone is in breach of the above with the INTENTION of gaining money, goods or services OR with the INTENTION of depriving others of the same then they are guilty of fraud. Even if they are unsuccessful and don’t manage to gain anything.

    CR/CIG have shown videos/marketing material that they have implied and on occasion expressly said were in game and live play which later turned out to not be. They have said updates will be coming soon, within the year, weeks not months, two weeks and even with specific deadlines. Not only were almost all of these missed, on at least one famous occasion in later transpires that 3.0 (which was the release I was thinking about), hadn’t even been through the planning stage AFTER the release date given.
    These shows and promises are invariably made around the time that a new ship sale is launched. That looks to me very much like false representation.
    There is also the question of whether the original kickstarter is a fraud. It may have been CIG’s intention to deliver what was promised, but it has changed beyond all recognition. There was the infamous forum poll, but I don’t think that cuts it. Unless you contact every who paid for the original thing and ask them if they would like the new thing instead or have their money back then it qualifies as a bait and switch. That also is fraud under section2 and possibly section 3 of the act.

    I have no idea whether anyone at CIG has breached section 3, but there are rumours of money spent outside of the game project, but CIG are very reluctant to open their books to the public. This is their right of course.

    So (in case you haven’t worked it out by now), Yes. I do think it’s a scam.

  5. #3995
    Originally Posted by shadragon View Post (Source)
    And the other players can offset your buying of 'advantage' by buying their own.
    By the way, SC isn't a game yet. It isn't even a complete Alpha at this point. It's a mish mash of heterogeneous code indicative of a high school coding group, rather than the output of a 400 person professional gaming company.

    If there are job layoffs from the SC project (as some are predicting) then that's the beginning of the downwards spiral. Job losses will degrade confidence further, kill sales which will reduce development time resulting in loss of confidence, fewer sales, more layoffs and on and on and on.

    If you still have money in this project and are not actively trying to get it out, you'd better be prepared to lose it at this point. They can't refund you money that they don't have.
    Forcing everyone just buying and not even playing the game...great solution.
    In football it would look like this, i bought a 3 goal advantage. The enemy team starts buying a 4 goal advantage so the first ones are forced to put more money into the advantage ot "offset" it. So they start buying a 5 goal advantage that forces the other one getting a 7th...in the end noone plays put pays to win.

    I am not defending SC here...of all the people i am the last one that would defend anything on that shiny metabolic end product. But its hilarious how people try to argument about how other people have a advantage because they put more time into it....then why the hell would one play a game when he is concerned about being at a disadvantage because he cant put so much time into a game like other....because he can use his hard earned cash to be competitive....its just like doping in sports until everyone does it and its not even worth anymore watching.

    The worst part of it this mindset ruins gaming overall, because its a illusion that you remove the advantage of others with your money....the people at the top will just buy it too doesnt matter in the end the only one that wins are the companys miliing the playerbase and the ones are the gamers that just wanted to play a fair game that got ruined by rampant pay to win schemes. Which you can't compete against beside BUYING into it yourself making you a part of the problem.

    SC is no different in that aspect. That guild has x many of ships! We need to buy to in order to stay competitive...

  6. #3996
    Originally Posted by Maruun View Post (Source)
    Forcing everyone just buying and not even playing the game...great solution.
    In football it would look like this, i bought a 3 goal advantage. The enemy team starts buying a 4 goal advantage so the first ones are forced to put more money into the advantage ot "offset" it. So they start buying a 5 goal advantage that forces the other one getting a 7th...in the end noone plays put pays to win.

    I am not defending SC here...of all the people i am the last one that would defend anything on that shiny metabolic end product. But its hilarious how people try to argument about how other people have a advantage because they put more ti9me into it....then why the hell would one play a game when he is concerned about being at a disadvantage because he cant put so much time into a game like other....because he can use his hard earned cash to be competitive....its just like doping in sports until everyone does it and its not even worth anymore watching.
    If a game starts with such discussions in place before its even released its already failed IMO.....and seeing as we have more evidence for shady business tactics and P2W hints then actual gameplay loops......yeah

  7. #3997
    Grind in gaming has had its meaning expanded so far that the word does not really mean anything anymore. ED for instance does not really have grind, now before you all start whining. The original form of grind started in traditional MMO's, it was repeated action that was required to unlock gated content. Be that levels, skills, dungeons and the like. Spending hundreds of hours getting gear or unlocking content that you could not do with out that grind. It was added to games because players would consume content faster than the Dev could create it.

    Now why does ED have next to no grind? Because almost all gameplay is not gated, it can be done in the starter ship. Getting a bigger ships for the most part do not change the gameplay you have access to. Engineers does not actually gate any gameplay in the game. Adding Engineering upgrades makes content easier, but it does not unlock content that you could not access. So you are in no way forced to perform an activity just to unlock gameplay.

    There are two exceptions to this, ship multiplayer and deploying fighters. Both of these activities are gated by needed larger ships, but it does not take long to get ships that can perform these activities.

  8. #3998
    I used to grind quite a bit in a number of games and quite enjoyed it on the whole. Sometimes it would be because that type of mob had a rare item that could drop, ie Dark Whelpling (0.18% chance) or Deathcharger Reins (0.8% chance) other times it was because I'd run out of quests or found an area where mobs respawned fast enough that there was minimal downtime. It can be quite therapeutic in some games, irritating in others.

    I think the idea that it has to be an action you don't enjoy or one that you don't get a reward from is incorrect but I do think it has to be of decent duration to be considered grindy. Some people start calling things grind after 30 minutes and that is just lightweight.

  9. #3999
    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    I used to grind quite a bit in a number of games and quite enjoyed it on the whole. Sometimes it would be because that type of mob had a rare item that could drop, ie Dark Whelpling (0.18% chance) or Deathcharger Reins (0.8% chance) other times it was because I'd run out of quests or found an area where mobs respawned fast enough that there was minimal downtime. It can be quite therapeutic in some games, irritating in others.

    I think the idea that it has to be an action you don't enjoy or one that you don't get a reward from is incorrect but I do think it has to be of decent duration to be considered grindy. Some people start calling things grind after 30 minutes and that is just lightweight.
    LOL I did the Dark Whelpling thing as well.

    I would say the distinction is if the Dev are making you do it, because you can't play that dungeon, or if it is self imposed. No one forces you to spend hours trying to get that rare drop, but you are forced to farm Molten Core gear in order to run that dungeon.

  10. #4000

  11. #4001
    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    I like it when these questions pop up https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...gerous_player/
    AAAASSSSSSSP! MY bucket is full i need another one....

  12. #4002
    In retaliation for the DS reddit forum going read only, Citizens have started another. It is not going to plan.....

    https://i.imgur.com/5KEEOS3.png

  13. #4003
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    In retaliation for the DS reddit forum going read only, Citizens have started another. It is not going to plan.....

    https://i.imgur.com/5KEEOS3.png
    That is already the Model T Ford of open discussions... as if anyone could have predicted that level of bias, eh?

  14. #4004
    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    I like it when these questions pop up https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...gerous_player/
    A little microcosm of it all there "i dunno why they have strong feelings about SC I mean we're fair and balanced about their game - maybe it's because they're jealous their game is a little puddle of contentless dribble and scum on the boot of the future of gaming that is STAR CITIZEN that will fulfil every dream you've ever had about gaming and render their game utterly redundant, a forgotten stain on the history of space gaming which is of course utterly fair. if only they understood game development"

  15. #4005
    ps this is great too just for existing like this Showed a friend this game on reddit and YouTube...

    If only you could show him the actual game.

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