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Thread: Star Citizen Discussions v7

  1. #4501
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Hadn't heard that. All i heard was about some really insane system where it all depended on the station having the required materials to construct the ship you need. If not, then it would have to be flown in from a station that does have the hull you need (in real time), so you would have to wait for that... presumably while you are waiting you can mop the floors of the current station to keep yourself busy.

    All in the name of fidelity.

    Its just another one of those things where something sounds really cool on the surface, but only needs a second or two of critical thought to understand that most gamers will hate it.
    Exactly right. It sounds 'cool' for a few seconds as you say because it sounds like real life and hey, that's the holy grail for us gamers, right? The thing we've always dreamed of, that a game will be so realistic that it will fee, well... real?

    Nope.

    When we game, we're using our free time on an activity so we're expecting it to be entertaining. We've also (usually) paid for it, which doubles down on that expectation. When I'm playing a game and expecting to have fun, my starting point has to be that I need to be able to do what I feel like doing now, or at least with a minimal delay. That's often dismissed as an example of entitlement culture but it isn't at all; in real life I fully accept the concept of delayed gratification like most reasonable adults, but gaming isn't 'real life', it's a leisure activity which I've chosen to participate in for the sole purpose of providing me with entertainment. If it doesn't do that, I'll be doing something else.

    We see this again and again in gaming. It's why no matter how fidelitous and engaging they may be, pretty much every game lets you skip cutscenes. It's why players complain about grind; because no matter how engaging developers make a particular gameplay activity there will come a point when you want to do something else. It's why when I'm playing an RPG I don't actually need to stop for 12 hours whilst my character sleeps to learn spells.

    If I'd spent $500 on an immersion chariot, lost it to ooh let's say a wing of players in dirt-cheap ships spamming missiles at me, or maybe they'd enticed me into doing something to get those new defence turrets to open up on me, then I was told that despite having also paid for lifetime insurance I would have to wait two days before I could use it again because Shonky Orbital had run out of widgets and their latest supply ship had been shot down by the same wing of players who just took my ship out, I think my head would explode.

    Of course, one potential solution could be that you can pay for a special delivery via the cash shop...

  2. #4502
    CIG can only drag this out for so long. The Citizens are getting restless and want something to play. Going by those leaked vids, cut down 3.0 looks miles off.

    Let the fun begin.

  3. #4503
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    CIG can only drag this out for so long. The Citizens are getting restless and want something to play. Going by those leaked vids, cut down 3.0 looks miles off.

    Let the fun begin.
    Tell me about it. I've had a post upvoted on the reddit sub!!!! I'm not sure that has happened before. More amazing is that it was in reply to one of the faithful who got downvoted to hell!

    Feathers are ruffled methinks. CIG really need to get a 3.0 out soon, no matter what state its in, otherwise their funding might slow up.

  4. #4504
    The discussion on reddit of that timeline graphic is unexpectedly quite decent https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...ease_timeline/

  5. #4505
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    Exactly right. It sounds 'cool' for a few seconds as you say because it sounds like real life and hey, that's the holy grail for us gamers, right? The thing we've always dreamed of, that a game will be so realistic that it will fee, well... real?

    Nope.

    When we game, we're using our free time on an activity so we're expecting it to be entertaining. We've also (usually) paid for it, which doubles down on that expectation. When I'm playing a game and expecting to have fun, my starting point has to be that I need to be able to do what I feel like doing now, or at least with a minimal delay. That's often dismissed as an example of entitlement culture but it isn't at all; in real life I fully accept the concept of delayed gratification like most reasonable adults, but gaming isn't 'real life', it's a leisure activity which I've chosen to participate in for the sole purpose of providing me with entertainment. If it doesn't do that, I'll be doing something else.

    We see this again and again in gaming. It's why no matter how fidelitous and engaging they may be, pretty much every game lets you skip cutscenes. It's why players complain about grind; because no matter how engaging developers make a particular gameplay activity there will come a point when you want to do something else. It's why when I'm playing an RPG I don't actually need to stop for 12 hours whilst my character sleeps to learn spells.

    If I'd spent $500 on an immersion chariot, lost it to ooh let's say a wing of players in dirt-cheap ships spamming missiles at me, or maybe they'd enticed me into doing something to get those new defence turrets to open up on me, then I was told that despite having also paid for lifetime insurance I would have to wait two days before I could use it again because Shonky Orbital had run out of widgets and their latest supply ship had been shot down by the same wing of players who just took my ship out, I think my head would explode.

    Of course, one potential solution could be that you can pay for a special delivery via the cash shop...
    see what you see as inconvenience i see as gameplay opportunity.

    forget for a minute the murderhobo angle - and on this i fully agree with you - but imagine I am waiting on my shiny ship becaue "the replacement ship we could give you is missing an engine part and the part is going to be 24 hrs away".

    but then they say "however CMDR we need to get a delivery to teds chop shop in system XYZ.... if you take this ship and drop off a load over at teds, he will give you the engine part we need for your replacement ship and can have you flying within the hr.

    to me that would make me feel involved in the game universe, and the inconvenience of not being in my ship a short time is a small price to play for the added immersion in the game.

    of course this would get old quickly if i was getting blown up by gank squads every 30 mins.

  6. #4506
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Tell me about it. I've had a post upvoted on the reddit sub!!!! I'm not sure that has happened before. More amazing is that it was in reply to one of the faithful who got downvoted to hell!

    Feathers are ruffled methinks. CIG really need to get a 3.0 out soon, no matter what state its in, otherwise their funding might slow up.
    The one and only reason I want new stuff released is to watch more Major Tom vids.

  7. #4507
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Tell me about it. I've had a post upvoted on the reddit sub!!!! I'm not sure that has happened before. More amazing is that it was in reply to one of the faithful who got downvoted to hell!

    Feathers are ruffled methinks. CIG really need to get a 3.0 out soon, no matter what state its in, otherwise their funding might slow up.
    I guess 'taking as much time as needed' time is running out!

  8. #4508
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Tell me about it. I've had a post upvoted on the reddit sub!!!! I'm not sure that has happened before. More amazing is that it was in reply to one of the faithful who got downvoted to hell!

    Feathers are ruffled methinks. CIG really need to get a 3.0 out soon, no matter what state its in, otherwise their funding might slow up.
    Yep - I've been thinking for a little while that CIG know they're rapidly losing a lot of the goodwill they've built up in the project.

    There always comes a time when dissent, previously unthinkable, becomes not just acceptable but actually becomes the new orthodoxy. The tipping point for that in relation to Star Citizen is still a little way off, to my mind at least, but it is coming and, taking the temperature of the forums (with all the caveats associated with that as a methodology, obviously), might actually be closer than I previously thought.

  9. #4509
    Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post (Source)
    see.... i love all of the above. just so long as there is stuff to do whilst we wait, such as missions in a supplied ship. it is a feature i would adore in ED..
    I don't think it can work.

    You have a two hour wait for your ship....30 minutes if you pay...

    What do you do in the meantime is important, but giving you a loaner ship doesn't appear to be too likely, nor beneficial.

    This is depriving the player of gametime, and ensuring he is forced into gameplay he does not necessarily want and with PvP likely to be common, this isn't likely to be a rare situation, especially with rumours of full body looting and situations where you can lose all your gear.

    There does not seem to be an upside to this idea, and it strikes me as coming from yet another one of Chris Roberts terrible gameplay fantasies

  10. #4510
    Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post (Source)
    see what you see as inconvenience i see as gameplay opportunity.

    forget for a minute the murderhobo angle - and on this i fully agree with you - but imagine I am waiting on my shiny ship becaue "the replacement ship we could give you is missing an engine part and the part is going to be 24 hrs away".

    but then they say "however CMDR we need to get a delivery to teds chop shop in system XYZ.... if you take this ship and drop off a load over at teds, he will give you the engine part we need for your replacement ship and can have you flying within the hr.

    to me that would make me feel involved in the game universe, and the inconvenience of not being in my ship a short time is a small price to play for the added immersion in the game.

    of course this would get old quickly if i was getting blown up by gank squads every 30 mins.
    So....your garage knows of a part that is closer than "24 hours" but is not willing to order it in for you?

  11. #4511
    Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post (Source)
    see what you see as inconvenience i see as gameplay opportunity.

    forget for a minute the murderhobo angle - and on this i fully agree with you - but imagine I am waiting on my shiny ship becaue "the replacement ship we could give you is missing an engine part and the part is going to be 24 hrs away".

    but then they say "however CMDR we need to get a delivery to teds chop shop in system XYZ.... if you take this ship and drop off a load over at teds, he will give you the engine part we need for your replacement ship and can have you flying within the hr.

    to me that would make me feel involved in the game universe, and the inconvenience of not being in my ship a short time is a small price to play for the added immersion in the game.

    of course this would get old quickly if i was getting blown up by gank squads every 30 mins.
    I accept what you say but you're still missing the point though.

    Your satisfaction there is dependent on the alternative activity being offered by the game providing you with an equivalent amount of satisfaction to the activity that you had intended doing before you lost your ship. You've still had the choice removed, it's just that it has been replaced with an alternative choice which in your example you find equally appealing. However if what you'd been in the mood for doing prior to your ship loss was some combat, flying a delivery run taking a fuel tanker to its purchaser would be unlikely to provide the same satisfaction. In that scenario you are still doing something, just not the thing that you wanted to do.

    That's a compromise and it's essentially the difference that I was highlighting; that although real life is full of situations were we have to accept the best we can get and make do with it, which is something that well-adjusted adults do without difficulty, gaming is not real life. In real life, I'd probably accept the job myself because the purpose of me doing it in real life would be to earn money to buy food and pay my rent.

    In gaming, there is only ever one reason to undertake an activity; to have fun. Even if we're talking about playing a life simulator, we are doing so within ringfenced time from our real life which is set aside to have fun in, the same as we set aside other portions of our time to earn a living, eat, sleep etc. Fun is the only purpose in playing a game and in undertaking any activity within one.

    In order for alternative activities in SC to be a suitable replacement for not doing whatever you had intended to do with your lost ship, literally every activity in the game would have to be so immensely enjoyable that it really didn't matter what you did as you would spend every second from logging in to logging out with a grin plastered across your face from ear to ear. That's not a realistic expectation of any game.

  12. #4512
    Originally Posted by TenakaFurey View Post (Source)
    And then people will be ticked off because they bought the ship only for CIG to "change the rules"
    After agreeing to everything that CiG has done and turning everything bad into something glorious I doubt that something minor as "changing the game" would upset the loyal playerbase.


    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    Wasn't there also a thing about the wait duration being increased the more claims you make? It does sound like the system is ripe for trolling especially as there's money (and the entitlement that brings) involved.
    Yep it was one of the rare occasions that CiG cared to address trolling/griefing issues brought up by concerned backers imaging goons suicide bombing people who just wanted to play so CRoberts tried his hand at damage control. They never evolved this system further and why should they? Seeing as early the current stage is it would be wasted work at this point never mind that a solid game concept would have covered this already (IMO)


    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Its just another one of those things where something sounds really cool on the surface, but only needs a second or two of critical thought to understand that most gamers will hate it.
    CiG did this a lot...spewing forth ideas which didnt make much sense or opened the gates to a whole lot of problems. That wasnt the point tho....at least not for the believers. The point was that CiG played with "ideas" so complex and which only would possible in a highly simulated environment that the theories alone supported the image of the BDSSE because how awesome does the game have to be in order to allow such gameplay right? And THAT might ve been CiGs intention after all.....strengthening peoples belief that this is all possible rather if any particular idea was "good"


    Originally Posted by Susanna View Post (Source)
    I've bought into SC, so hope it will deliver at some point. I too am hopeful that 3.0 will start to be a playable game (I don't consider the current 2.6 to be worth the time).

    What I wanted to say was I watched through the latest 'Burndown' update recently.



    They strike me as a bunch of guys that are trying to be as open and forthright as possible with the current development position. They show their (edited no doubt) meetings, they get different people across the company to review what they are doing to progress SC. In essence, they appear to recognise that their 'boss' (and we all ultimately have a boss of some description), are the SC backers and they need to keep them onside. This encourages me to feel that they are not acting like lone wolves with other people's money... So I I'm hopeful for 3.0.
    Seriously.....its for people like "you" that I hope I am wrong. You strike me as an honest guy/gal and you keep your opinion without having to justify or defend it against others. Of course your interpretation doesnt guarantee the production of the game. There are so many signs already pointing to a different, darker scenario but we all cook with the same stuff.....water which turns into steam which cannot be grasped or touched. Fact is that CiG is taking their sweet time so I hope that whatever they manage to release called 3.0 is worth the wait and money spent.....for you.


    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    What amazes me about that it makes it look as though CIG's development is slowing down, not speeding up.

    Remember when in 2015 it was saying they were developing the tools, laying the foundations, and when done, things will speed up.... and then again in 2016... and again in 2017.... i wonder when it will actually speed up.

    Now some fans are saying its taken so long because of the sheer amount of content added..... which we still are not sure of, because 3.0 NDA etc, but from what we have seen, i'm not sure that what is coming is worth all that delay. Maybe this time round they really were developing the tools, laying the foundations..... ugh... nope, not again.
    Its not an illusion, I had that impression last year already and it only turned out to be true. Sure there are possible explanations for this but it all sounds like backpaddling and excuses to me. I believe that once in a while a company this great and so promising[/b] should be able to come through on at least some of its promises/expectations once in a while. And I m not talking about nor considering the ATVs and props examples in this regard. 3.0 release or rather the "3.0 MVP" (lol) will be the next test for CiG where they can prove if they have it or not.


    Originally Posted by Mad Mike View Post (Source)
    *snip* assuming we get wings of gank guilds flying around... and i am fully expecting such wings..
    Me too. EVE has corps whose priority is not to grief or gank people per se. Their objective is to destroy as much value as possible. Ganking and grieving is a side product of their activity but there is no intentional hostility involved. There have been incredible stories over the years like this one which are mindboggling to me because they demonstrate a complex and multilayered game design that can handle and allow such scenarios. The player (aka victim) in question wasnt important in that story, the only thing that mattered was that he commanded a titan ship which represents EVEs largest capital ships....a "super battleship" which is so large and powerful that it REALLY needs whole corps in order to obtain because you dont "buy" it with your wallet....you "build" it ingame and you need to have the skills too so everybody who has the skills to fly one of these things also represents a value that these corps will not ignore. Again, this is NOT about the player him-/herself.

    Of course you wont be impressed or even fascinated by any of this if you are on the receiving end of the gank but I myself had experiences in EVE where I was targeted and hunted and managed to get away. Usually in other games such attempts are followed up by trashtalk or aggression but in my cases the aggressors contacted me to "discuss" the matter. Why they attacked me, why I was at a disadvantage from the start and even how I could avoid such situations in the future. EVE sure has its group of grievers sure but I believe that the majority of the community plays the game as it was designed and not harbor personal feelings when it comes to PvP or their ships.

    I cant see this happening in SC. There is already so much animosity between groups of different interest PRE-launch that the first few days of release will be an absolute gankfest if it ever happens (game release I mean ). I wasnt there when EVE launched but I imagine it had a slow ramp-up time where people had to research, find and build stronger ships so all activities were done with the small frigates and destroyers. It wasnt one-sided at first and people figured out stuff as they went. Star Citizen will allow capital ships from day 1 and there is no fixed ruleset regarding PvP so chances are you ll have servers dominated by corps with RL dollar fleets who will dictate gameplay to others (pay a tribute, you no mine here lolz, grieving at the station). And regarding the hostility on forums I cant even begin to imagine the toxicity ingame where people try for some payback or the elitists try to demonstrate their superiority to the "peons" who start out with the basic ships.


    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    The one and only reason I want new stuff released is to watch more Major Tom vids.
    He has been very silent for months now to my big disappointment I wonder if he even intends to cover SC with more of his epic videos? I certainly see him lurking in various comment sections on the topic.

  13. #4513
    I think he only puts out a new video when SC release a new patch...

    So they are deliberately releasing nothing to stifle Major Tom's satire!

  14. #4514
    Originally Posted by Tuub t Tute View Post (Source)
    I think he only puts out a new video when SC release a new patch...

    So they are deliberately releasing nothing to stifle Major Tom's satire!
    Come to think of it....its true. Major Tom deals in facts not hyperbole You cant deny his videos validity and they are even funny if you are not pigheaded and/or bum-hurt.

  15. #4515
    Originally Posted by MTBFritz View Post (Source)
    Come to think of it....its true. Major Tom deals in facts not hyperbole You cant deny his videos validity and they are even funny if you are not pigheaded and/or bum-hurt.
    I noticed on the first leaked Evocati (stupid name) vid, the commando did Major Tom's trademark clip through the door, when it wouldn't open.

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