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Thread: Will Elite Dangerous have Atmospheric Landings, Space Legs or Procedural Cities by 2019?

  1. #376
    Originally Posted by Arithon View Post (Source)
    What 2019 bring? Zac Antonaci has said in the past that announcing content is narrow line to walk - if you pitch it too far ahead, people lose interest by the time the content releases everyone has lost interest and if you say nothing, you're failing to communicate. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

    A question for next year's Frontier Expo? I'll be there to ask it.
    Zac is on point here. This is why FD announces things that are close and present - and that's why Beyond details where sketchy for lot of people. Beyond is unique in that regard though - it seems FD plans to do open discussions how to implement features so there's no 'no can change because it's beta' surprises for people.

    I will guess this grind community people a bit though - they most likely know exciting stuff devs are cooking but can't rebut claims about how ED is dying and it won't have atmosphere planets. But hey, we each have cross to bear.

  2. #377
    Originally Posted by uliando View Post (Source)
    First of all SC will have space legs. ED is you are your ship experience and I kinda like it. You don't need to worry about food, water, immersion and whatever else might distract you. ED is about being living not breathing ship.

    Best part is that i have X55 HOTAS and space legs would require me to move hotas away and I don't really have fast access to fast swap between KM and X55 so i have to remove 8 screws and it all takes about a minute. Pure ship experience is awesome because I don't have to worry about how to fast switch or getting new table or something.
    Well yeah...including survival elements is a bit where SC lost me. I like life support element in ship because it adds to combat. But that's about it. I don't demand avatar to eat, drink, etc. while walking around. If FD figure out gameplay around it, then I am all game.

  3. #378
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    From the Devs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7mY

    edit.

    David Braben talks about gas giants.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypIq3fg9nMM
    Thanks.

    Unfortunatly I am quite aware of both of them and still now I confirm my opinion on the matter.

    About the first one, you see something you can do in Vr but not in game. On the other hand, there was a trailer times ago where were showed a pilot stading up in a cockpit.

    Something, uselless to say, not in game.

    The second video confirms what I have said: talk, talk, talk, and nothing more.

    Again: Acta not verba.

  4. #379
    Originally Posted by Eymerich View Post (Source)
    Thanks.

    Unfortunatly I am quite aware of both of them and still now I confirm my opinion on the matter.

    About the first one, you see something you can do in Vr but not in game. On the other hand, there was a trailer times ago where were showed a pilot stading up in a cockpit.

    Something, uselless to say, not in game.

    The second video confirms what I have said: talk, talk, talk, and nothing more.

    Again: Acta not verba.
    You cannot just throw this stuff into the game. There has to be a reason to do this kind of thing, or the novelty will wear off very quickly. Take Space Engine for instance.

    It's all very nice and lovely to look at, but ultimately boring as a "game". You need gameplay. Gameplay is everything. Without it Elite: Dangerous has no longevity.

  5. #380
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    You cannot just throw this stuff into the game. There has to be a reason to do this kind of thing, or the novelty will wear off very quickly. Take Space Engine for instance.

    It's all very nice and lovely to look at, but ultimately boring as a "game". You need gameplay. Gameplay is everything. Without it Elite: Dangerous has no longevity.
    True.

    And still you have 400 bilions of planet out there...

  6. #381
    Originally Posted by Eymerich View Post (Source)
    True.

    And still you have 400 bilions of planet out there...
    Hopefully the exploration update will give us more to do than just scan them.

  7. #382
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Eagleboy View Post (Source)
    Well yeah...including survival elements is a bit where SC lost me. I like life support element in ship because it adds to combat. But that's about it. I don't demand avatar to eat, drink, etc. while walking around. If FD figure out gameplay around it, then I am all game.
    I love survival elements, but I don't want them in every game. In SC it would be very nice to have that ocasional need to eat. Since it's sim and they don't want to bother you with survival I bet every 8 hours to eat and every few hours to drink would be very much ideal survival that you need.

    I don't want to see survival elements anywhere near ED, because we know how grindy and unfun it would end up being. ED is filled with explorers that's why we want atmospheric landing

  8. #383
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    Could you please explain how adding space legs would be a challenge engine wise?!

    Space legs just means a free floating camera locked to a height of 1,8m and some collision checks. You can already walk around your ship using VR today. The challenge is to add meaningful interactions amd game mechanics, adding the ability to walk around would take less than a few hours.
    Maybe, but probably only for a demo. It's not just an animation and camera view issue. The game environments would probably need a lot of work to get them ready for space legs.

    Have you ever built a map for a FPS? I have made many. There are so many things that must be added, to make a game map playable. You need clip zones, to keep a player from getting hung up on map geometry. You need movable sections, like platforms and doors. You need a huge number of trigger zones, to open doors, flip switches, summon elevators, trigger scripts, etc. Without those zones, the map is just "dead" geometry with no interaction. Making these fully-functional gameplay areas is a tremendous amount of work.

  9. #384
    Originally Posted by NW3 View Post (Source)
    Maybe, but probably only for a demo. It's not just an animation and camera view issue. The game environments would probably need a lot of work to get them ready for space legs.

    Have you ever built a map for a FPS? I have made many. There are so many things that must be added, to make a game map playable. You need clip zones, to keep a player from getting hung up on map geometry. You need movable sections, like platforms and doors. You need a huge number of trigger zones, to open doors, flip switches, summon elevators, trigger scripts, etc. Without those zones, the map is just "dead" geometry with no interaction. Making these fully-functional gameplay areas is a tremendous amount of work.
    Yes I did in the 90ies, and yes, you are right that for having meaningful space legs you not only need a working camera, animations and collisions, but also switches and triggers. This can be done by a single person though, it's not that much work for a 300 people company. I did it when I was ten and many modders do it all by themselves today. But then you also need good textures, mechanics, content, objects, etc., if you put all that together it becomes an enormous task. And to make your work efficient you also need someone to improve / create a good editor...
    Anyway, the point of my original comment was to elaborate that the Cobra Engine obviously is able to implement FPS mechanics. Every 3D engine can do that and I don't need to work at FDEV like Eymerich suggested to know that. If it's fun or not is a different story though.

  10. #385
    Originally Posted by NW3 View Post (Source)
    Maybe, but probably only for a demo. It's not just an animation and camera view issue. The game environments would probably need a lot of work to get them ready for space legs.

    Have you ever built a map for a FPS? I have made many. There are so many things that must be added, to make a game map playable. You need clip zones, to keep a player from getting hung up on map geometry. You need movable sections, like platforms and doors. You need a huge number of trigger zones, to open doors, flip switches, summon elevators, trigger scripts, etc. Without those zones, the map is just "dead" geometry with no interaction. Making these fully-functional gameplay areas is a tremendous amount of work.
    I don't think babelfisch is denying that. It's in reply to someone saying how do you know the engine can do it. Pretty obvious really. Look at the outsider, look at planet coaster, look at the Thargoid base. Of course there are no engine limitations. It's a time limitation more then anything.

  11. #386
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    Yes I did in the 90ies, and yes, you are right that for having meaningful space legs you not only need a working camera, animations and collisions, but also switches and triggers. This can be done by a single person though, it's not that much work for a 300 people company. I did it when I was ten and many modders do it all by themselves today. But then you also need good textures, mechanics, content, objects, etc., if you put all that together it becomes an enormous task. And to make your work efficient you also need someone to improve / create a good editor...
    Anyway, the point of my original comment was to elaborate that the Cobra Engine obviously is able to implement FPS mechanics. Every 3D engine can do that and I don't need to work at FDEV like Eymerich suggested to know that. If it's fun or not is a different story though.
    Yes and no.

    Yes, anyone can create a level for a FPS, but how many of those levels are static buildings you can't enter and how many are bigger than a few buildings?

    Remember if Elite Feet does happen, players won't be satisfied if they can only enter one building or even only one part of a building - they will want total access to everything. They don't want to be restricted to only a certain part of the planet where the 3D modelling has been done, they will want to go wherever they want - and if they don't watch the forum explode with complaints. And if it is only the work of 1 person, I hope to god that poor guy gets paid the equivalent of everyone else's wages because he will be busier than a 1 armed brickie in Baghdad!

  12. #387
    Originally Posted by M00ka View Post (Source)
    Yes and no.

    Yes, anyone can create a level for a FPS, but how many of those levels are static buildings you can't enter and how many are bigger than a few buildings?

    Remember if Elite Feet does happen, players won't be satisfied if they can only enter one building or even only one part of a building - they will want total access to everything. They don't want to be restricted to only a certain part of the planet where the 3D modelling has been done, they will want to go wherever they want - and if they don't watch the forum explode with complaints. And if it is only the work of 1 person, I hope to god that poor guy gets paid the equivalent of everyone else's wages because he will be busier than a 1 armed brickie in Baghdad!
    Absolutely. I was only referring to one guy adding switches and triggers, not the complete Elite Feet

  13. #388
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    I don't think babelfisch is denying that. It's in reply to someone saying how do you know the engine can do it. Pretty obvious really. Look at the outsider, look at planet coaster, look at the Thargoid base. Of course there are no engine limitations. It's a time limitation more then anything.
    (Sorry) I didn't intend to pick on babelfisch; I just wanted some context for my reply to the thread. My point is that it's not a "simple" matter of engine capabilities; the (much) bigger issue is that all the game assets (models, textures, etc.) need to be seriously reworked with interactivity in mind.

  14. #389
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    Absolutely. I was only referring to one guy adding switches and triggers, not the complete Elite Feet
    Phew, after I hit Post (naturally after, not before lol) I realised my post could be interpreted as having a dig at you - that definitely wasn't my attention. Like you, I was trying to emphasis that modelling for a standard FPS shoot would be very different to modelling ED for first person VIEW (god I hope it doesn't turn into a shooter). This is one game where the community won't accept half measures, just look at the posts in the forum to confirm that.

  15. #390
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    I don't think babelfisch is denying that. It's in reply to someone saying how do you know the engine can do it. Pretty obvious really. Look at the outsider, look at planet coaster, look at the Thargoid base. Of course there are no engine limitations. It's a time limitation more then anything.
    Originally Posted by NW3 View Post (Source)
    (Sorry) I didn't intend to pick on babelfisch; I just wanted some context for my reply to the thread. My point is that it's not a "simple" matter of engine capabilities; the (much) bigger issue is that all the game assets (models, textures, etc.) need to be seriously reworked with interactivity in mind.
    Originally Posted by M00ka View Post (Source)
    Phew, after I hit Post (naturally after, not before lol) I realised my post could be interpreted as having a dig at you - that definitely wasn't my attention. Like you, I was trying to emphasis that modelling for a standard FPS shoot would be very different to modelling ED for first person VIEW (god I hope it doesn't turn into a shooter). This is one game where the community won't accept half measures, just look at the posts in the forum to confirm that.
    The good thing is, we all agree with each other

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