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Thread: DESCENDING INTO CRIME: ISSUES

  1. This is the last staff post in this thread. #1
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous Frontier Employee

    DESCENDING INTO CRIME: ISSUES

    Hello Commanders!

    Please Remember This thread is for feedback directed at developers, not other posters. Please post potential issues you can see with this feature here.

    We are not likely to respond directly to posts in this thread, but we will be scouring it, so don’t be shy – if you see something that you think will be an issue, point it out!

    Try to be as specific as possible with your issues. The more detail, the better!

    UPDATE: When considering issues, please remember to check the Detail Request thread to see if there are updates that might pertain to your concerns!

  2. #2
    Possible issues will be the sell of the said ship in question. I am assuming there would be no restrictions in Anarchy systems therefore it would still be easy to sell the ship and rebuy a new one. There are anarchy hi-tech systems around.

    Hence the reason why I think there still should be some commander consequences, not just ship consequences.

  3. #3
    Hi
    So glad you are covering this.

    so 1 issue with the new system... it would work for some but we know some CMDRs have money coming from their............... earholes.

    many of the ships are lethal when ENGed up the wazzo, but the base ship cost is quite slim. with your suggestion from what i can tell i could effectively once i hit critical mass of bounty strip my ENG murder boat back to cheapest possible modules and transfer them over to a new clean ship, with very little cost involved.

    TBH I think it would be best KEEPING the bounty with the CMDR BUT still having a "rep" tied with the ship, so the ship would gain an infamy which would effect things such as docking and facilities (in both positive and negative ways) BUT ultimately after a scan, even if you are in a clean ship "the truth will still out" as it were regardless of the ship you are in.

    for the purposes of ships having a rep i think things like ships name would have to be locked down... but that is an immersion "fluf thing" I guess..

    TLDR unless it is not possible to transfer modules from one wanted ship to a clean ship, I think this may be very exploitable because the true cost of a ship is in its modules NOT the base hull.

    thanks

  4. #4
    ...bounties can be cleared using Interstellar Factors at an exorbitant mark up...
    ...easier to avoid consequences if you’re prepared to shelve the wanted ship...
    Both of these snips seem to point to an issue. Criminals can immediately escape consequences by just using credits which are two-a-penny (just an expression)?
    CMDRs have to be accountable for their actions or the concept of C&P is meaningless.

  5. #5
    Your ship accumulates crimes, not you as a Commander
    Isn't the whole point of Pilots Federation and instantly applying bounties to have them point to an individual, rather than anonymous pilot that could switch ships at any time?

    So instead of dying in a Sidewinder, the pilots with enormous bounties...Oops, not pilots - ships, will just sit safely in a station?

    Does this basically mean that so-called murderhobos can have a dedicated killing ship, and as soon as they switch to a different one there's no consequences for them?

    Unless they can't re-fill ammo and repair I don't see how this system is an improvement over what we already have.

  6. #6
    Ships having their modules sold or transferred is a potenitial issue, but you could simply add restrictions to that (no station will buy a hot module at full price, anarchy stations will buy for 5% of full value or something)

    Though currently commanders do have money coming out of their earholes, I do think if the cost is unavoidable, large, and consistent (ie, it will keep increasing/needing to be paid if they continue to operate/gank), then the system just needs to be tight enough that peoples bank accounts begin to drain.

    Be faster with exploit closing (hotfixes!). Allow commanders to earn a reasonable amount, yes, but make sure loopholes are closed. Potentially even make it clear what, as devs, you consider to be 'working as intended' levels of profit/hr for a commander in certain ships/with a certain rep. If the game is meant to take time to acquire things, make that clear and avoid misconceptions from people joining the game from a more 'instant gratification' kind of game.

    Provide enough cash sinks on top of this (I'm looking at you megaships), and credits could actually have a value again.

    This still doesn't fix combat logging. Long term, there has to be some kind of FD response to repeat offenders, otherwise certain criminals can still choose to never die...

    Cheap ship ramming is still an issue, and needs some kind of measurement to determine who is ramming who. perhaps even no bounty for ramming if you hit them on the nose? that's difficult to do if your target is trying to avoid it, but inevitable if you are the one suicide ramming...

    Detention ships should be instanced separately for each commander to avoid it becoming a griefing hotspot.

  7. #7
    Issue:

    Crime linked to Ship name, but to display ship name players have to buy a cosmetic, so an incentive to not buy this ship cosmetic, workaround Ship name Displayed regardless of cosmetic

    Issue:

    Ship name can be changed at each Starport, if Name now tracks crime this needs to be a one time operation potentially, or only allowed to change when at rebuy screen. (I like the idea that the ship name is set upon purchase)

    Issue:

    Jail ships, consider Colonia miscreants, they should have jail locations there? Also player cannot select Jail location, to stop sneaky crime spree and fast travel to Colonia and/or Bubble?

  8. #8
    Issue:

    Multicrew - if you participate in Multicrew and perform a crime and accept bounty/fine, is that passed onto you or ship? Its more a lore reason why a ship that wasn't at a crime is then burdened with a penalty (I think it has to to stop Multicrew becoming the way to commit crimes without impact.

  9. #9
    A few thoughts on the proposals, i'm sure i'll have more

    Issues

    1. The Victim should never lose more than the murderer

    2. Attacks against players should trigger a more robust set of punishments than NPC

    3. Credit punishments are meaningless to players with billions in the bank

    4. It's too easy to become accidentally wanted due to NPC pilot action, instancing issues and the like. Therefore souped up system response etc should apply to crimes only against players. Basically, the consequences for player assault have greater and wider out of game implications than those against NPC's. Any C&P system has to reflect consequences to the player community not just in game ones.

    5. The griefing tactic of sidewinder ramming to incur a huge penalty on the other player would not be fixed here. This needs to be looked at.

    6. Detention ships. What's to stop players lurking outside and killing players trying to get on with their game. Basically it will become a killzone.

    7. How does this deal with the issue of combat logging?

    8. Tying penalties solely to ships makes no logical sense. If I rob a bank, I go to jail, not the car.

  10. #10
    Issue potentially here:

    Hot ships have restricted services at starports
    Hot ships have limitations to ship transfer, module transfer, and sale

    There is a potential for a ship to become permanently trapped in a system where it's hot. Many PvPers for example run with 2D FSDs for speed, but in this case they might not be able to buy a new FSD to jump to a new system, nor will they be able to transfer the ship to a new system, nor will they be able to get any engineered modules off of it. I understand crime requires punishment, but this would be an effective, permanent impoundment of that ship. That's over the top.

  11. #11
    Issue:

    Is the price of an engineereed module the same as an un-engineered module (Don't do rebuys that often and don't see a massive leap in rebuy costs for my engineered components)? If so could i swap out all my uber buffed modules with stock ones and "suffer" the same rebuy, can engineered modules carry a significant multiplier to that modules rebuy and like the Pilot Bounty its always the most expensive module you had in that ship between crime and destruction that carries that rebuy charge?

    Sorry i keep going into theorycrafting a solution in this issue section. I will try and stop.

  12. #12
    Issue:

    I commit a crime and go to a starport and just buy a new ship, I can repeat this each time and it only costs me the price of a ship, when I finally get killed I can use these stored ships to pay off my bounty/fine. You don't need a customised, engineered ship with god rolls to commit crimes.

  13. #13
    Grief --> hot ship --> store modules --> sell hull --> buy new hull --> install stored modules in new hull --> Grief.

    Cant see the value in attaching crimes to hulls, instead of commanders. Can you explain that one again?

  14. #14
    seems there would be a problem if a commander of a "hot" ship were to get into his SRV and dismiss the ship. Now he isn't wanted and can easily drive away / into a base. So, if I'm being hunted because my ship has a bounty on it, I can simply land, get into the SRV and dismiss my ship and can no longer be attacked because my SRV has no bounty?

    The whole idea of having crime "stick" to the ship in which the crime happened within and not with the commander is like classifying a gun as wanted when it is used in a crime while letting the shooter go free... doesn't make sense to me.

  15. #15
    1. A clear description of how this is handled in Anarchy space (after crime committed in Civilized space ofcourse) is needed. At the moment, we can only speculate at possible issues for that area.
    2. "Hot ships have restricted services at starports" needs further description, to avoid speculation.
    3. Is it only for in-system bounties, or does the PF bounty also apply for this? The ramifications are very different.

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