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Thread: DESCENDING INTO CRIME: DETAIL REQUESTS

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    Can you please clarify exactly what problem(s) these changes are intended to solve?
    The current crime system is a little too complicated with various states. It's also too easy to avoid consequences when committing crimes.

    Can I just request clarification.... are these changes for everyone (yay!) or just for Pilots Federation bounties (booo!)
    These changes would apply across the board for crimes against both human Commanders and NPCs

    Just how limited the services would be?
    Current thoguhts: you could complete active missions, visit the blackmarket, Interstellar Factors, and security office if the ship only had a fine on it

    When a ship is "hot", is it only effective in the current system where a crime is commited or in every system ?
    A hot ship would be hot everywhere. However service restrictions would only apply in the appropriate jurisdictions

    If a ship get "hot" because of a CMDR murder (PF bounty), do the ship get limitations to ship transfer, module transfer and sale in every non anarchy system ?
    Current thinking: yes. Pilot's Federation bounties are nasty.

    Limited in that these functions are completely blocked? Or are available, but subject to some restrictions?
    Blocked completely

    How is the player meant to remove these fines and bounty without paying? in the current system they expire.
    They don't. The crimes must be paid for one way or another, or left hanging as a persistent threat/restriction

    Hot ships have limitations to ship transfer, module transfer and sale. Going to need much more than restricted, it could mean anything...
    Current thoughts: Modules removed from hot ships would be hot modules. Possibly unable to fit until cleaned in storage, or possibly applying a fine/bounty/crime to ships they are fitted to. Possibly can be sold at a massively reduced cost.

    Would you be able to sell a ship that has a wanted bounty/fine and just deduct the bounty/fine from the cash value of the ship?
    Possibly. Selling a hot ship would almost certainly need to give you a massively reduced payout.

    This all sounds pretty good. I still feel like bounties should be on the players and not the ships, however, making the ship hot instead of the commander does allow players to play "roles" with different ships, and this gives players more options for how they want to play, so from a game design point of view making the ship hot might honestly be a more robust solution. I'm warming up to it the more I ponder it.


    One question I'd like to ask you Sandro (Frontier): are you contemplating any positives for playing as a criminal? Any perks to a life of crime? Benefits at pirate faction starports in the way of things like black markets which pay more, more lucrative smuggling/assassinate/pirate/illegal missions, or other things?

  2. #62
    Question, Sandro:

    Will firing on a ship, and gaining a bounty, incur the same level of restrictions etc, as destroying a ship?

    A while ago while discussing the recent Pilots Federation Bouinty system, you mentioned that, Pirates, should be trying to steal cargo, not destroy ships, and so they won't be gaining a pilots federation bounty for firing on other players. This I entirely agree with!

    So, with that in mind, how will piracy in general (regardless of PVP or PVE) hold to that general concept.


    If the same level of "Tangible" penalties apply, regardless of destruction, or simply disabling/robbery of a ship, then what incentive is this giving to leave ships alive when performing acts of Piracy.

    Essentially, I worry that this moves backwards on that original concept that "Pirates should be trying to rob people, and avoid murdering them, because that makes more trouble for them with the authorities."


    Thanks.

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    When a ship is "hot", is it only effective in the current system where a crime is commited or in every system ?
    A hot ship would be hot everywhere. However service restrictions would only apply in the appropriate jurisdictions
    With in mind that this would apply if you also shoot a NPC is worrying for those who roleplay as pirates or criminals.. I highly recommend this is thoroughly tested in a beta for a month if both PvPers, PvEers and pirates are comfortable with the changes. SO far I can see a frustration for those being pirates as they cannot swap out ships anywhere due to limited services. Unless you can complete a high value paying mission that risks you being wanted everywhere, that I might be keen on seeing.

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    If a ship get "hot" because of a CMDR murder (PF bounty), do the ship get limitations to ship transfer, module transfer and sale in every non anarchy system ?
    Current thinking: yes. Pilot's Federation bounties are nasty.
    I don't see how sales would be important to a player when they are killing players. Usually when that occurs they don't need anymore ships as they have all the gear on standby. I'd say probably have a 15LY proximity exclusion zone from where you committed the crime where you can't transfer. When you are wanted everywhere across the galaxy, you need to feel the same way as Salome as she was the galaxy's most wanted. We need roleplay so we know why it's there in the first place.

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Limited in that these functions are completely blocked? Or are available, but subject to some restrictions?
    Blocked completely
    So for say I roleplay as a pirate. I asked for cargo and shot him with some lasers so he drops some cargo. When I return to Shinrarta or my home system after a long day of roleplaying, I can't access anything because of my bounty? Nor can I refuel, repair or rearm? What if I didn't have Horizons and couldn't land on a planet to synthesize? What if I forgot my fuel scoop? There would be a lot of problems here..

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    How is the player meant to remove these fines and bounty without paying? in the current system they expire.
    They don't. The crimes must be paid for one way or another, or left hanging as a persistent threat/restriction
    I'd rather turn myself in and pay a hefty fine for my crimes. So no thanks.

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hot ships have limitations to ship transfer, module transfer and sale. Going to need much more than restricted, it could mean anything...
    Current thoughts: Modules removed from hot ships would be hot modules. Possibly unable to fit until cleaned in storage, or possibly applying a fine/bounty/crime to ships they are fitted to. Possibly can be sold at a massively reduced cost.
    Why do we need to make hot modules now? I mean, it would make sense if you've used the weapon for a crime. But wouldn't it be just better to hot the entire ship if it's wanted?

    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Would you be able to sell a ship that has a wanted bounty/fine and just deduct the bounty/fine from the cash value of the ship?
    Possibly. Selling a hot ship would almost certainly need to give you a massively reduced payout.
    This idea I'm very interested in. However, you could make it so that it's original price is available if you sell it on the black market. That would make a lot more sense in terms of crime and black market stuff.

  4. #64
    Q: It very much looks like this will start to drive pirates and other types of ruffians into Anarchy systems, which, in my opinion is a good thing because it'll make Anarchy systems much more dangerous places to fly through - is this one of the intentions of this crime change?

    Q: Others are of the opinion that criminal bounties should stay on a player's head - but presumably this is covered with a Karma system and you are intending a player Karma system to work in tandem with 'hot ships' ?

  5. #65
    Q: Can you please clarify that, when you say a ship is "Hot", this (and all the restrictions that go with it) apply only to stations where the faction that issued those bounties has control?

    Q: In a similar vein, if such a system were put in place, would it be guaranteed that a faction would never offer a mission that would cause the player to become wanted to that faction?

    There would be major knock-ons for the BGS and mission-running in general if both of these were not the case. Possibly more suited to the "issues" thread, but relevant for illustrating the second question... Faction X may control System A and System B. Faction X in System A offers me a Wetwork Contract (Assasination mission which results in getting a bounty as the target is never wanted) to kill someone from Faction Y in System B. I go to System B and kill the Faction Y target, but the bounty will be placed on me by Faction A, as they have jurisdiction in the system. This wouldn't be a good scenario.

  6. #66
    This is more of a Meta question, but is this it?

    It outlines a lot of new Punishment & Punishment, sorry, Crime & Punishment functionality but nothing about other associated game play.

    In the 2.4 beta threads, I asked about "incentives" for the victims in conjunction with punishment for the criminal and you indicated incentives were also on the drawing board.

    My feedback on these proposals as they stand, alone, will be quite a bit different vs if there were other related improvements also proposed.

    And isn't the core issue that people don't like dying?

  7. #67
    is there anything over problematic like killing a CMDR wanted in another jurisdiction with a KWS be changed?

    ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...unting-is-DEAD )
    ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...in-the-process )

    Right now is already difficult to TAKE a CMDR bounty. If you get a PFB for doing it (by killing him in a clean place but him having a bounty on their head from elsewhere) you're basically toasted , by doing justice, so no point in even carrying a KWS for it.
    Make PvP activities worth doing, right now all you are doing is shoving it into more and more difficulties.

  8. #68
    When a ship is "hot", is it only effective in the current system where a crime is commited or in every system ?
    A hot ship would be hot everywhere. However service restrictions would only apply in the appropriate jurisdictions


    So what does having a hot ship in a non aplicable jurisdiction mean for the pilot?


    AND what will happen to the 50 million in legacy fines i currently have? Am i about to get REALY HOT?

  9. #69
    Would be nice o have more mechanics about interactions before any contact or combat even starts, like stealth in super cruise.

    Taking one step towards karma, would be nice to have mechanics enforcing and rewarding comanders for hailing each others, asking about their doings, intentions or announcing your actions like pirating.
    This could leave options to not escalate the situations, like after firing upon a security ship and being able to turn yourself in, apologizing and being dismissed only with a infraction, not death.

    So, attacking others without even hailing should agravate things, making clear how hostile and vile the perpetrators are.

    The same way, your rank, local and super power conections and levels should reflect anything, like being no harassed by security forces in imperial systems if you are a high rank noble, for example.
    This levels and ranks should have meaning.

  10. #70
    Does this proposed system supplant the karma system, or will that still be coming to complement this?

  11. #71
    This system is aimed at decreasing the motivations for being a criminal, but crime is still considered a valid play style in Elite (through things such as smuggling or piracy). Would these changes to the punishment system also potentially be accompanied by changes to crime-based play-styles to keep them viable?

    Simply because with piracy already being quite unrewarding, these increases in deterrence would make that option even less appealing to a player.

  12. #72
    Will Wanted passengers no longer result in your ship being fired upon and you getting a fine or bounty? Because they're people, not ships.

  13. #73
    I like the spirit of the changes, especially the notion of being able to "role switch" between your "crime" ship and your normal one. That said, we need to be careful to distinguish between punishing the PLAYER, and punishing the character/ship. We should be striving to punish the character/ship, thereby giving CONSEQUENCE to the player. Making a player have to jump out of the system who knows how far, to refuel/repair, just to try to jump back is excessive. That punishes the PLAYER, making the game monotonous and boring. Further, said players would always be jumping to other systems to restock, which would then make it very hard to kill them (as they would be "clean" there), which would then force all that nonsense on the bounty hunter.

    That said, first, I would like to see a little more granularity in the "hot ship". As best I can tell, "Hot" = "wanted". "wanted" = murdered innocent trader, or accidentally shot police that flew in front of you while bounty hunting, fully shielded, and did no damage. All cops immediately turn on you (and away from active person they are fighting) and blow you to bits. Seems a little heavy handed....

    I would love to see the risks of "serious crimes" go up, and the penalty for "minor infractions" go down. This would add more decision making to any engagement. Perhaps a pirate doesn't want to murder you, just take your stuff....they may fire some warning shots, then be happy to let you go on your way if you pay them off. (like a mafia coming in to ask you for your "protection money"). As it stands, once you shoot at someone, you might as well kill them since you just got the death penalty no matter what...

  14. #74
    Question:

    How are these crime changes going to affect cmdr/NPC kills in powerplay?

  15. #75
    I have a query regarding respawning ...

    New Rules For Respawning


    • You respawn at a location dependent on the circumstances of your ship’s destruction, in a hierarchy:
      • If you were detected as wanted or hostile you respawn at the nearest appropriate detention facility
      • If you were not hostile or not detected as wanted you respawn at the nearest non-hostile starport in the system
      • If there are no suitable starports in the system you respawn where you last docked.
    It's common practice for people doing things like Sag A* Buckyball runs (or flying to Colonia, etc) that, having got there and finding themselves daunted by the prospect of the return journey, to simply self-destruct and find themselves back at Sol, or wherever they started from.

    With the 2nd change described above will this no longer be possible? It seems likely that a Sag A* Buckyballer would now respawn at Colonia or one of the other stations out near the center of the galaxy?


    Edit: nevermind, didn't read it properly ... point 3 applies so no change there. Phew!

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