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Thread: Sandro confirmed roll 1-5 for every new module..

  1. #361
    They just should make their new system with a brand new "grade 6" blueprint.

    That way, we can all enjoy the grade 1 to 5 as we wanted / pleased.

    And the new grade 6 will have to be maxed out (better and better on each roll) to be more good than our "old grade 5". Except for those who already own a god like module. And for the future, they can still add a grade 7 for example... only and only if they make a good rebalancing on blueprint.

    Of course, they can still apply the improvement from grade 1 to 4 but they mustn't disallow us to roll which one we want. For example, I still like the long range grade 1 =)

  2. #362
    I just recently fully engineered my new T-10, everything to G5... I have all necessary engineers at G5 already and so I didn't need more than 1-3 rolls per module. Some things were fine on the first roll - like the FSD with a +48% roll - others needed a second or third try to get a decent result. Of course the ship is not god rolled, and I could squeeze a few more % out here and there, but overall it is good enough.

    Now tell me, how is the proposed change supposed to be "more efficient" as Sandro worded it, than the old system? Let's be honest... it isn't. It is an order of magnitude worse... If I had to roll everything from grade 1, I would need at least 5-10 times as many rolls to get the same result.

    Please rethink it.

  3. #363
    I've been thinking about this since the threads first came up a while ago. It does seem to add grind to this system and the material trader won't really help to make things better. The material trader is trying to fix a symptom. Since it seems like they really want to go ahead with this level system then cut the number of materials currently in the game down to 10ish. Then no matter what game pillar you do you're only grinding for those and all the patterns will pull from a smaller pool of materials. No longer having to spend 17 hours on a planet in a SRV just go get 10 technetium on a "high" rated 2.7% planet would be a good thing. Then make the materials drop more per load. We have a bigger cap and it is per material so let's use that.

    Right now the gathering of materials is the frustrating part. If that gets a whole lot easier then I'll be ok with having to go through levelling things up. I do not trust the material trader to fix anything in the long term.

  4. #364
    Originally Posted by FrozenWinter View Post (Source)
    I've been thinking about this since the threads first came up a while ago. It does seem to add grind to this system and the material trader won't really help to make things better. The material trader is trying to fix a symptom. Since it seems like they really want to go ahead with this level system then cut the number of materials currently in the game down to 10ish. Then no matter what game pillar you do you're only grinding for those and all the patterns will pull from a smaller pool of materials. No longer having to spend 17 hours on a planet in a SRV just go get 10 technetium on a "high" rated 2.7% planet would be a good thing. Then make the materials drop more per load. We have a bigger cap and it is per material so let's use that.

    Right now the gathering of materials is the frustrating part. If that gets a whole lot easier then I'll be ok with having to go through levelling things up. I do not trust the material trader to fix anything in the long term.
    It depends how the material trader works, I could personally live with rerolling each module only if exchanging materials/data doesn't make it a worse grind than currently. If we need to grind 100's of mats per module or still rely on specific material/data rng drops then the change is pointless.

  5. #365
    Will our already fully engineered ships get the nerf bat? Because if they do, we will be in a whole new level of grinding, it would be like trashing all our work since engineeres dropped.

    Engineering again all my fleet is not something I'm willing to do, in fact if it happens I'd seriously consider leaving the game for good.

    Anyways, since the current engineering system is not going to change in favor of a point distribution system or a reputation status, for example, this is what *I* would do to "fix" engineering.

    -Increase material and data storage. Check. IMO it should be 10x times our current storage
    -Add a material trading hub. Check.
    -Remove the stupid rank loss when applying a special effect.
    -Add engaging content for engineer reputation instead of wasting materials on useless mods.
    -Make material and data gathering fun, engaging and on a fixed source. Remember FD, if it's fun, it's not a grind.

  6. #366
    Originally Posted by FrozenWinter View Post (Source)
    I've been thinking about this since the threads first came up a while ago. It does seem to add grind to this system and the material trader won't really help to make things better. The material trader is trying to fix a symptom. Since it seems like they really want to go ahead with this level system then cut the number of materials currently in the game down to 10ish. Then no matter what game pillar you do you're only grinding for those and all the patterns will pull from a smaller pool of materials. No longer having to spend 17 hours on a planet in a SRV just go get 10 technetium on a "high" rated 2.7% planet would be a good thing. Then make the materials drop more per load. We have a bigger cap and it is per material so let's use that.

    Right now the gathering of materials is the frustrating part. If that gets a whole lot easier then I'll be ok with having to go through levelling things up. I do not trust the material trader to fix anything in the long term.
    Can't agree with this. Cutting the number of materials down is a step backwards. The issue isn't that there is too much variety in the materials, but that you sink your time into collecting either one highly specific material or the other and doing nothing else.

    Other games get by this by mixing the activities up. If you want Material A, it will often be tied in with quest B and activity C and you'll get relevant materials D, E and F in the process, which you can then either use or trade to other players for genuinely relevant materials. Because you're accomplishing more than just collecting 10 bear sphincters, it doesn't feel like a waste of your time.

    Collecting materials in ED needs to be more than just collecting materials. The system needs to be fleshed out and made an interconnected part of the rest of the game. Cutting back the number of materials just makes the grind more simplistic. The grind will still be there, you'll just be doing 10 activities instead of over 100.

    Adding in material traders does not solve the entire problem. It is, however, a step in the right direction. Ultimately, I'd like to see players trading those materials, along with materials being optional rewards for activities we already do such as....

    "For your time you spent in the CZ you can collect credits, or we can offer you material A, or, since you're ranked Captain with our faction, you can take half as many of Material B."

    "You can cash in your bounties against pirate faction X with the Federation for the full amount, or you can cash them in with their opposing miner faction and get 60% of the credits and X tons of Painite."

    "Trade your commodities for credits, or trade them at a net loss for the opportunity to get some rare materials."

    Etc... This is just a few simple examples of how the materials system can be woven into everyday activities, instead of being an activity unto themselves that draws everyone away from the gameplay they really want to be engaged in.

  7. #367
    Except for the materials from planets/missions/mining, none of the material collecting fits nicely into the game. If they properly expanded on salvaging gameplay we could have a fourth method to get materials in a nice feeling way, but thatís where it ends really.

    - Frameshift wake materials, really?! Who the hell thought we would get those during Ďnormal gameplayí?
    - Combat ship materials?! Why on esrth must I stop doing the thing Iím doing to get them, simply to pick up the materials Iím supposedly collecting? It really messes with the flow of combat, who on earth thought that was a good idea?!
    - And what the actual hell is woth those materials from trading ships and authority vessels? Outside of powerplay, and, in the case of authority vessels, bgs manipulation (both of which probably only amount to a tiny portion of the players), literally no-one fights those, ever. And even when they do it still interrupts the flow of what theyíre doing. Seriously, why are these in the game?!
    - USS: eh, I give up already. We all know these are just awful.
    - Oh come on frontier, another, really? Stupid manufactured materials/data from planet based sources. Literally all of those are hell to get.

    Detecting a pattern here? And on top of that, they want to increase the number of materials we use on average, while not even going back to this? Come on, it needs fixing and it needs it now.

    The solution would be to keep the planet based materials (I kinda like them during exploration), but to make every material available from missions, and have some overlap between mission types to give us material A not just by doing assasination missions, but also passenger missions in systems with a specific state. On top of that, give us the ability to apply more than one active filter, allow us to see the systems from further away and more easily on the galaxy map (maybe a list instead of dots on a map, with all the relevant available statistics next to them, like distance and population).

    On top of that, having high reputation with minor factions should allow you to buy materials from them for credits, at a discount for certain materials. Reputation can be increased by trading and bounty hunting, and basically anything else you do in this game, so that seems like a nice bonus.

  8. #368
    Originally Posted by Funny View Post (Source)
    - Frameshift wake materials, really?! Who the hell thought we would get those during ‘normal gameplay’?
    - Combat ship materials?! Why on esrth must I stop doing the thing I’m doing to get them, simply to pick up the materials I’m supposedly collecting? It really messes with the flow of combat, who on earth thought that was a good idea?!
    - And what the actual hell is woth those materials from trading ships and authority vessels? Outside of powerplay, and, in the case of authority vessels, bgs manipulation (both of which probably only amount to a tiny portion of the players), literally no-one fights those, ever. And even when they do it still interrupts the flow of what they’re doing. Seriously, why are these in the game?!
    - USS: eh, I give up already. We all know these are just awful.
    - Oh come on frontier, another, really? Stupid manufactured materials/data from planet based sources. Literally all of those are hell to get.

    1. you gather when doing any activity that requires a wake scanner.
      -> to bad that mission payouts are currently by far higher then anything you could get in the same time by using a hatch breaker (16k for a canister compared to 20Millions for flying a passenger around)
    2. the second is simply due to the "immersion crew" who wanted to avoid "traktor beams" could not think of something as simple as a net-cannon for collecting stuff.
      no, they had to go with dumb, slow and complicated "drones"
    3. actually, anacondas are trading ships too, and its "miliatry and authority vessels", so every ship in a CZ.
    4. yes, USS, specifically "high grade emissions" are not tied to any other gameplay element that i know off.
    5. the last, yes, they also fall into that category

  9. #369
    Originally Posted by FrozenWinter View Post (Source)
    I've been thinking about this since the threads first came up a while ago. It does seem to add grind to this system and the material trader won't really help to make things better. The material trader is trying to fix a symptom. Since it seems like they really want to go ahead with this level system then cut the number of materials currently in the game down to 10ish. Then no matter what game pillar you do you're only grinding for those and all the patterns will pull from a smaller pool of materials. No longer having to spend 17 hours on a planet in a SRV just go get 10 technetium on a "high" rated 2.7% planet would be a good thing. Then make the materials drop more per load. We have a bigger cap and it is per material so let's use that.

    Right now the gathering of materials is the frustrating part. If that gets a whole lot easier then I'll be ok with having to go through levelling things up. I do not trust the material trader to fix anything in the long term.

    Dammit! I love the SRV rolls and jumps. Not finding mats will be a pain in the .......

  10. #370
    I posted this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating. I spent a tonne of time (for the first time) on Engineers this week. Iíve come to the conclusion the existing system isnít that bad. I did things and went to places Iíve never been. Iíve set goals to get x units of y mats and felt good accomplishing it. Unlocking Engineers was also an interesting mini game. Also felt like a win when a really great roll came through.

    I unlocked all the Engineers using common mats and just re-rolling G1 - G3 over and over. Those mats are easy to collect and often accumulate as a byproduct of searching for the G4 - G5 mats.

    Once completely unlocked, I could concentrate on the mats I needed exclusively for G5. With the proposed solution, many of the hardest to find mats will be required for the G3 & G4 rolls (which I cannot skip over with a one-time dump of 'junk' mats).

    Example
    G5 Power Distrib Charge Enhanced and G5 Dirty Drive
    Currently: 2 CIF are required at minimum
    Proposal: 3 CIF are at least required (as the G4 Pow Distrib Charge Enhanced needs it) - assuming only one G4 roll is required.

    https://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/4/
    https://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/67/

    I concentrated on CIF because it's one of the hardest to find in quantity (unless you play the datapoint mini-game) and the two blueprints are commonly used together.

    As I see it, what needs to be fixed:

    1. Better explanation from FDev on how to find mats and data. Improve the in-game explanations to stop the guessing and use of immersion breaking 3rd party tools. This has been done with missions. It can be done with mats. This is just a text update.
    2. Mission payout fix to represent 3 items. A mission gives you [1] mat/data item, while an USS gives you [1] pod containing 3 mat/data items. If payouts for missions gave 1 pod (3 items) instead of 1 item, the grind for CIFs would be ⅓ of the current level. That could be done with no changes to the mission UI text. Just a server side update so that mission completion payout was multiplied by 3. The existing randomness of mission pays between 1 - 4 pods would be maintained, but the inventory would be credited 3 - 12 items
    3. Increased storage. Too much micromanagement and accumulation in common mats is frustrating.


    The above, while not perfect, would seem to be less controversial and less dev time required than completely reworking the system as is currently in the works. It also allows for a more gradual implementation and A/B testing. My big fear with the new system is the real issue of grind hasnít been addressed.

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