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Thread: Sandro confirmed roll 1-5 for every new module..

  1. #16
    This is a bad idea! Its going to kill the game. Engineers will be used sparsely, this will not increase engineer use. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!

    Sandro its time to move onto another software project!

  2. #17
    Then there is the material grind, which in my opinion is the worst of all the grinding. No mention if that will be made easier or hard....my best guess it will be made even worse becasue of the materials trader and "balance" reasons...

  3. #18
    It was a question I asked during the truth or donate section, so details were not forthcoming so we have no idea how many rolls it will take to get from1-5..

    However, let’s assume best case. It is still a very, very poor mechanic because.
    1. It requires nor demands any skill AT ALL. Once you know where to go, that’s it. You know everything there is to know after one set of 1-5
    2. For most cases you will need to craft and trash at least 4 times, locking you into an RNG materials hunt
    3. It’s busy work. It serves no purpose other than to act as a time gate and to waste the players precious free time
    4. You will need to spend time looking for mats for 1-4 just to waste that time. And you will need to do this for every modules or weapon.. think of the wasted time to engineer a big 3 ship’s weapons. For example
    5. This is frontiers 3rd go at engineering and the same issues remain as the first time.. It has and will not solve them, it simply moves it from the end of the process to the start..
    6. There is no alternate method we’ve been told about to get to the higher grades. It’s craft and trash or nothing.
    7. It resets players progress, effectively negating all the time spent over the past 2 years levelling up with engineers

    Honestly, for the life of me I just fail to see this proposal has any redeeming features at all...

  4. #19
    This doesn't bother me. Five rolls, or even twenty five rolls per module is way less than what I'm doing now.

    Only thing I'm worried about is the possibility of existing god rolls being grandfathered in, forcing me to engineer at an uncomfortable pace now, if I don't want to be left behind once the rolls possible now become impossible to obtain later. I'd much rather see past rolls be constrained to what's possible in the new system.

  5. #20
    Looks like I need to get started on engineering all my ships fully before this change comes in.

  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    This doesn't bother me. Five rolls, or even twenty five rolls per module is way less than what I'm doing now.

    Only thing I'm worried about is the possibility of existing god rolls being grandfathered in, forcing me to engineer at an uncomfortable pace now, if I don't want to be left behind once the rolls possible now become impossible to obtain later. I'd much rather see past rolls be constrained to what's possible in the new system.
    I’ll have to re-watch the stream to make sure, but Sandro mentioned grandfathering. He said that grandfathered modules would sort of be reset to grade 4 equivlient and you’d need to re-roll them to get the max benefits from the new grade 5..

  7. #22
    Originally Posted by Mengy View Post (Source)
    Hopefully other changes offset the new grind, but this colors me skeptical.
    I think the other changes will offset it considerably
    - per-material storage, so you don't have to throw out L1-3 materials to make room for L4-5 materials
    - larger storage, so when you're not engineering you can casually be building up a lot of stock in at least some material types
    - most blueprints are themed - the L2 is a lot like the L3 - so even if they don't use the same materials, you get them from the same sorts of place/activity.
    - low-level materials are often really easy to come by anyway - e.g. by the time you've found any Datamined Wake Exceptions for a G5 FSD, you've probably come across far more than you need of all the lower ones.
    - material broker lets you throw out materials you have no use for and get ones you can use
    - if you are the sort (whether that's a PvPer or an ultra-lightweight explorer) to want to absolutely maximise everything (either across the board or on a specific module), this can now be done in finite time rather than thousands of rolls if you're lucky

    Also potentially
    - god-rolls incorporated into primary blueprint: if this stretches the ranges of all grades rather than just sticking a really wide primary range onto G5, you might only need a maxed G3 or so to get current G5 levels of performance.
    - some potential for getting use out of the pinned blueprints to speed up bits of the collect/use cycle

    I think it all comes down to how many rolls it takes to maximise a blueprint. If it's in the 2-5 range, I think overall it'll actually be quicker to get a solid G5 roll than it is now (and way quicker to get a maxed one). If it's in the 20-50 range, it clearly won't. 2-5 is about what you need right now to get "near maxed primary" with no improvement guarantee, and any more than that would mean your engineer rep went up the first time round far quicker than you could actually use it even on a single module, so I'm hoping it'll stay that way...

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by Shanaeri View Post (Source)
    I’ll have to re-watch the stream to make sure, but Sandro mentioned grandfathering. He said that grandfathered modules would sort of be reset to grade 4 equivlient and you’d need to re-roll them to get the max benefits from the new grade 5..
    So all the time some players invested in harvesting materials and rolling and re-rolling just would be worth zip ... sounds a bit harsh. Nothing against cutting down god rolls, but erasing the whole grade 5 benefit, now, that would be a slap in the face for some I guess. If the info is correct.

  9. #24
    Although I will wait for more details before judging, the idea sound reasonable and well thought out. Basically:

    -Current situation: Unlock engineer to G5 by using 'cheapest blueprint'. Then only use G5 rolls until randomness blesses you with god roll. Heck, I often dont even have the resources for a G4 roll while I have plenty for G5s. From now one each module could be 'done' after 1, 10, 100 or 1000 rolls, depending on chance.
    -New situation: Gradually progress from 'minor benefits' to ' ultimate benefits' in a more linear fashion. As you will need to go through each step, each grade becomes more viable. You now chose how much work you want to do for what benefit.

    For the balance we'll have to wait for the demo, but a more linear and less random progression sounds just fine to me. I think some are confusing the proposed changes with the idea that FD wants to 'shortcut engineers'. Whatever will happen, it wont be a 'press button for god roll'. If for someone engineering is just a thing 'to get through' so you can grind money faster to buy bigger ships to grind through engineers to earn money faster, no change will satisfy you as FD doesnt seem to envision Engineers as a 'disposible power-up'. It seems to be designed from the perspective of 'you and your ship, traveling the galaxy with you gaining experience and the ship slowly being modded'.

    Just my 2c of course.

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Uvelius Sång View Post (Source)
    So all the time some players invested in harvesting materials and rolling and re-rolling just would be worth zip ... sounds a bit harsh. Nothing against cutting down god rolls, but erasing the whole grade 5 benefit, now, that would be a slap in the face for some I guess. If the info is correct.
    I'm a bit out, but what I thought was said earlier was that current G5 mods would start as G4 when 'converted to the new system'. If you keep them as the old modules, they will be 'new G5 performance', but not the best there is.

  11. #26
    I like the proposed system, it fits better with my game philosophy.

  12. #27
    I was more concerned that Sandro said that god rolled modules now would still be better than the best in the new system.

  13. #28
    It seems they just can't get away from the grind.

    Ok, if you are going to do that, at least make getting the materials in the first place a fun experience the third, fourth, fifth etc time you need to do it.

  14. #29
    The new requirement to craft every grade of modification on every module does not seem, to me, to be designed to encourage players to engage in Engineering.

    It places four new barriers between players and Grade 5 modifications that do not exist, i.e. the requirement to gather materials for modifications that are not wanted to then craft them and surpass them on the next modification - and if more than one roll at each grade is required before being able to move on to the next grade it will be even worse. The outcome of the change is to effectively increase the ingredient list of the first Grade 5 modification by a huge factor, taking Increased Range FSD G5 as an example, from 3 "units" to 9x number of rolls at each lower grade to achieve threshold for higher grade + 3 "units".

    Players that engage in "casual" crafting (I would consider myself one of them) are not interested in farming bucketloads of materials / data before crafting a module - for me it's more "collect 3 or maybe 6 of each ingredient and then apply that blueprint to as many modules as I have mats/data for" (maybe rolling up to three times in total per module).

    On reflection there may be a case to remove modification grades altogether and simply link the capability of the output to the rarity of the materials / data used for the modification itself - noting that there are five rarities of each "group" of both data and manufactured materials and partial coverage of elemental materials.

    Current Engineer related data, grouped:

    Data Group
    Very rare
    Rare
    Standard
    Common
    Very common
    Data
    Classified Scan Fragment
    Divergent Scan Data
    Classified Scan Databanks
    Unidentified Scan Archives
    Anomalous Bulk Scan Data
    Emission
    Abnormal Compact Emission Data
    Decoded Emission Data
    Unexpected Emission Data
    Irregular Emission Data
    Exceptional Scrambled Emission Data
    Encryption
    Adaptive Encryptors Capture
    Atypical Encryption Archives
    Open Symmetric Keys
    Tagged Encryption Codes
    Unusual Encrypted Files
    Firmware
    Modified Embedded Firmware
    Security Firmware Patch
    Cracked Industrial Firmware
    Modified Consumer Firmware
    Specialised Legacy Firmware
    Shielding
    Peculiar Shield Frequency Data
    Aberrant Shield Pattern Analysis
    Untypical Shield Scans
    Inconsistent Shield Soak Analysis
    Distorted Shield Cycle Recordings
    Wake
    Datamined Wake Exceptions
    Eccentric Hyperspace Trajectories
    Strange Wake Solutions
    Anomalous FSD Telemetry
    Atypical Disrupted Wake Echoes

    Current Engineer Manufactured / Salvaged materials, grouped:

    Manufactured
    Very rare
    Rare
    Standard
    Common
    Very common
    Alloys
    Military Grade Alloys
    Proto Radiolic Alloys
    Proto Light Alloys
    Thermic Alloys
    Phase Alloys
    Precipitated Alloys
    Galvanising Alloys
    Salvaged Alloys
    Tempered Alloys
    Capacitors
    Military Supercapacitors
    Polymer Capacitors
    Electrochemical Arrays
    Hybrid Capacitors
    Grid Resistors
    Chemical
    Pharmaceutical Isolators
    Chemical Manipulators
    Chemical Distillery
    Chemical Processors
    Chemical Storage Units
    Components
    Improvised Components
    Configurable Components
    Mechanical Components
    Mechanical Equipment
    Mechanical Scrap
    Composites
    Core Dynamics Composites
    Proprietary Composites
    High Density Composites
    Filament Composites
    Compact Composites
    Conductors
    Biotech Conductors
    Conductive Polymers
    Conductive Ceramics
    Conductive Components
    Basic Conductors
    Cooling
    Proto Heat Radiators
    Heat Vanes
    Heat Exchangers
    Heat Dispersion Plate
    Heat Resistant Ceramics
    Heat Conduction Wiring
    Crystal
    Exquisite Focus Crystals
    Refined Focus Crystals
    Focus Crystals
    Flawed Focus Crystals
    Crystal Shards
    Shielding
    Imperial Shielding
    Compound Shielding
    Shielding Sensors
    Shield Emitters
    Worn Shield Emitters

    Current elemental materials, grouped:

    Elemental
    Very rare
    Rare
    Standard
    Common
    Very common
    Carbon Group
    -
    -
    Tin
    Germanium
    Carbon
    Chromium Group
    -
    -
    Molybdenum
    Tungsten
    Chromium
    -
    Iron Group
    -
    Ruthenium
    -
    -
    Iron
    Manganese Group
    -
    Technetium
    -
    Manganese
    -
    Nickel Group
    -
    -
    -
    -
    Nickel
    Nitrogen Group
    -
    Antimony
    -
    Arsenic
    Phosphorus
    Oxygen Group
    -
    Tellurium
    Polonium
    -
    Selenium
    Sulfur
    Scandium Group
    -
    Yttrium
    -
    -
    -
    Titanium Group
    -
    -
    -
    Zirconium
    -
    Vanadium Group
    -
    -
    Niobium
    Vanadium
    -
    Zinc Group
    -
    -
    Cadmium
    Mercury
    Zinc
    -

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by metatheurgist View Post (Source)
    Sounds bad. If only my hotas wasn't broken, I'd be out there grinding upgrades right now.
    My sympathies, I'm panic-rerolling my modules.

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