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Thread: Delay update

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by Stinja View Post (Source)
    Hmmm from unobtainable grandfathered god-rolls (meta rails etc); to increasing the grind... to quote Lando Calrissian "this deal is getting worse all the time...". I don't suppose moving to the new system can be "opt in" please?

    Seriously though, currently once an engineer is discovered, invited, unlocked, and ranked with, you can then go there in a brand new A-rated ship, and G5 modules. Moving to a system where you have to progress from G1 -> G2 -> G3 -> G4 -> G5 sounds horrendous!

    You seem to be assuming you'll have all components in you ship already, but if you can only pin one blueprint at a time, imagine:
    - at Sol
    - decide to G5 thrusters
    - travel to Palin
    - upgrade A-rated -> G1
    - find missing component
    - travel back to bubble for components
    - farm component
    - travel back to Palin
    - upgrade G1 -> G2
    - find missing component
    - travel back to bubble for components
    - farm component
    - travel back to Palin
    - upgrade G2 -> G3
    - find missing component
    - travel back to bubble for components
    - farm component
    - travel back to Palin
    - upgrade G3 -> G4
    - find missing component
    - travel back to bubble for components
    - farm component
    - travel back to Palin
    - upgrade G4 -> G5
    - travel back to Sol
    - decide to swap ships
    - ugh, decide to upgrade A-rated thrusters...

    Yeah does not sound good at all. Ok after that first time you'll be super careful to have components for the 12 required rolls, but does not sound like an improvement over the current system to me.

    Anyway, i'm going to G5 any current ships i like before 3.0 then
    The likelyhood is that if you have the G5 components you will likely have the components for the other ranks as you will likely pick them up at the same time.

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by Mengy View Post (Source)
    If Frontier is absolutely adamant about this for some odd reason, then at least meet the community half way. Make it so that you only need to apply a single Grade 1 to go to a Grade 2, one Grade 2 to go to Grade 3, and so on. So 5 rolls to get the minimum Grade 5 instead of the 15-20 that Sandy proposed. This is still adding a new grindy timesink to the Engineers (which is bad IMHO) but at least it would be much less of one.
    I actually like this idea. (as a compromise)

    To take it a step further, what about 'fast-tracking' to G5 means you can only max out at say 75% of what a full G5 would normally be.
    But if you take the long G1-G5 leveling path, then you'll have access to the full 100% G5 level upgrades.

    The "that's good enough" crowd would be appeased by being able to get the reasonable upgrade they're looking for.
    While the min-maxers can still get the 'god-rolls' they're after.

    Win-win? maybe??

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    The likelyhood is that if you have the G5 components you will likely have the components for the other ranks as you will likely pick them up at the same time.
    I certainly don't.

    A lot of G5 materials are rather specific and I personally don't spend any time picking up anything else. That means I will have to spend extra time picking up everything else, whether it happens to be floating in the same location or not.

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by YinYin View Post (Source)
    I certainly don't.

    A lot of G5 materials are rather specific and I personally don't spend any time picking up anything else. That means I will have to spend extra time picking up everything else, whether it happens to be floating in the same location or not.
    It's not the case at the moment because we have to throw stuff away or choose what to pick up. With the new update we will have a 100 limit on every material, which means there is no need to choose what you pick up. You can easily hoover up everything without worrying about it.

  5. #65
    Originally Posted by GJ51 View Post (Source)
    I still don't understand what is being "fixed"

    [...]

    Why does FD insist on "penalizing" us with an "upgrade" in order to give us the one thing we consistently ask for? Why does every improvement feel like it has to have a backhanded slap attached to it?

    Just raise the storage caps and leave the rest of the system alone and I'm confident you'd get cheers rather than jeers all around.

    This would be much better than the proposed improvements by the devs.

    Lots of players I know did not engineer that much because of the time you have to waste (in boring/unwanted gameplay) to get your materials.

    The torture of 500 ore mining, slaughtering an endless number of innocent traders in anarchy systems, watching hours of netflix to search for high grade placeholders... and modular terminals!

    thank goid my cutter is engineered a long time ago.

  6. #66
    This whole mash through the grades thing also undermines the materials broker.

    When you go and see them, you'll not only have to think about what high grade materials you need, but what lower level materials you can't afford to give away because you'll need them to craft and trash.

    The average number of crafts to complete a module's rank is currently running at around three (2.8 or so to be more precise)
    The 'average' part here is also worrying as it suggests there is still RNG in play. Sometimes it'll be one roll to max a grade, typically it'll be three, every now and then (when it's most inconvenient), it'll be 5 or 6.
    That means you can't even properly plan what you need and you'll have to over-farm materials, just in case you get unlucky.

  7. #67
    Perhaps I'm just an idiot, but whats the point of rep ranks if you have to go G1 > G5 with everything?

    The rep rank was the gate for module scope (G1 / G5) while the materials themselves limited what you could roll.

    This new system sounds confused as its adding a superfluous new barrier.

    If I'm being honest, all I want is a materials broker and keep the current system. The current system is painful due to having to collect mats, but once you have sufficient quantities its fine. Having a place to buy / swap mats would alleviate most of the pain of engineering, and not having a new engineering system side-steps the grandfather issue.

    The other silent issue is that blueprints themselves need urgent passes on material requirements, and new blueprints to fill in the glaring holes / inconsistencies.

  8. #68
    Especially considering that we often use different ships for different tasks – this Asp for exploring, that FDL for combat, and the T-7 for trading, throw in a anti-Thargoid FDL as well - the planned changes sound like an awful time sink.

    Each ship would need to go through all the process for every module and level wanted, instead of unlocking a grade (as now) and then just choosing how often you want to roll that grade for optimization. That sounds like a huge game brake:
    I don't actually play to gather materials for engineers, I play to do something together with other players, fulfill a specific task, enjoy the void. For example, I didn't bother unlocking that engineer that needs 500 T of ore since mining is pointless for me personally. Even though I very well could have use for a good armour upgrade.

    The easier I can make my ships able to fulfill all those different tasks with reasonable challenge and variety, the better -- and yes, when there are Engineers I actually do need them for those tasks. A Fuel Rat with 20 ly range is pathetic, as is a PvP fight with unmodded weapons on one end.

    So anything making it more time-consuming as it already is (if it will be so) just misses the point of the game in my view. Unlocking an Engineer and repping him up once is already enough of a challenge, as other have pointed out earlier.

    Sorry, I don't need Elite to waste my time, I play it to enjoy Elite.


    PS: And where has the Rep button gone?

  9. #69
    I'd be seriously tempted to kick most of the proposal down the road and focus on something else.

    Implement the broker - that's just a win even if we don't know the exchange rules.
    Implement the 100 per material limit - that's just a win and 100 is sufficient for nearly all materials (although limpet synthesis does seem expensive with that in mind).

    Postpone everything else:
    - With the 100 limit, the collection ignore function becomes more of an edge case and not quite as important - postpone
    - Grandfathering is extremely contentious however you resolve it.
    - G1 > G5 is being discussed here but is basically just tinkering with where the grind is but leveling it out uniformly regardless of how engaged players are with engineers currently.

    Loot drops haven't even been covered in the proposal, but in all honesty - that is the significant issue with the Engineers, more than the upgrade process itself.

  10. #70
    I'd be seriously tempted to kick most of the proposal down the road and focus on something else.
    Agreed. Just add the materials broker and 100 mat limit for now.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    We don't think that's particularly excessive, and we like the potential for the module upgrading experience to feel more like progression.

    Hope this information helps, more to come next week.
    I've paraphrased something that the EA PR account said on Reddit and changed it to be Elite related: "The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for grinding different ranks"

  12. #72
    Chiming in that it is much too late to go backwards on how engineer ranks work; this update was touted as a QOL enhancement, and as described in this post is anything but that

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    It's not the case at the moment because we have to throw stuff away or choose what to pick up. With the new update we will have a 100 limit on every material, which means there is no need to choose what you pick up. You can easily hoover up everything without worrying about it.
    "easily hoover" up everything is not without a time sink. If i'm farming High Grade USS for Pharmaceutical Isolators, i can ignore everything else. Under the proposed changes, and your "hoover it all", i'll have to drop into every other type of USS / planet / etc to hoover stuff i do not currently need at all.

    From just:
    - Cadnium
    - CIF
    - Pharm Iso

    To also include:
    - Specialised Legacy Firmware
    - Mechanical Equipment
    - Chromium
    - Mechanical Components
    - Configurable Components
    - Modified Consumer Firmware
    - Selenium

    Pretty sure some of that stuff is going to require extra farming.

    Originally Posted by Mnemoch View Post (Source)
    Chiming in that it is much too late to go backwards on how engineer ranks work; this update was touted as a QOL enhancement, and as described in this post is anything but that
    Exactly, I really do not see how this is a QoL change?

    QoL = "Quality of Life" remember. Not "Quality of shift the annoyances from one place to another" change.

  14. #74
    Proposal:

    Add the 100 limit per material

    Add the Material Broker (I hope that the mat exchanges they offer are based on economy type, i.e firmware at high tech, Arsenic at extraction etc)

    Keep engineering at an engineer base the same as it is now

    Add engineering pinned blueprints in outfitting using the new system

    ----

    We can have our cake and eat it

  15. #75
    Sandro,

    The feel of progression is to unlock and grind to rank 5 all of them... And not capture all of them ;p once you do that...you feel already like a free man. ( Palin... The worst or evil one)

    Your system of progression schema is maybe legit for new players that can't afford G5 or
    A graded ship. Then they can use lower blueprint for they need...

    But less be honest...who's gonna engineered a fully E or D rated ship ? ( except Explorer)

    Clearly nobody

    There is no progress with engineer...you can't transfer your mod from 1 module E to 1 module A ( same type)

    Thus, your idea of progression is limited. Sorry but again.... I don't support this change

    People who can afford grade 1 to 5 will just do it at once...you just make us bored and angry.

    If you implement a grade 6 engineer with your new system... You can make all of us happy.
    We keep the ability to roll grade 5 directly ( we have to me it out like you want us to do). And we play your "method" for the last grade 6 tier.

    And old God roll grade 5 will meet more or less the new grade 6 max.

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