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Thread: Supercruise handling of ships

  1. #1

    Post Supercruise handling of ships

    When I tried the recently released Type-10, personally I was surprised at how bad it handled in supercruise. Otherwise, in my opinion it would make a decent exploration ship. But then the question became: exactly how bad is its supercruise handling when compared to those of the other ships? With no data on this, I set out to make my own. At first, I just stuck to explorer ships, but then I decided to go do multi-roles that are decent at exploration, and having done those as well, I then went to finish the rest as well.
    Oh, and I'm posting this in the exploration subforum because in my opinion, exploration is where supercruise handling is the most relevant.
    Thanks go to Edelgard von Rhein, Jackie Silver and Satsuma for sharing data from some of the missing ships!

    I tested the times a full loop required, supercruising in deep space, at both 50% throttle and 100% throttle. Note that I measured times with a stopwatch, so keep in mind the error from that! I didn't record and time videos, as that would have taken much longer. Also, I've rounded half up.
    Oh, and for the record (on methodology), I tested all ships at four pips to engines, but that doesn't appear to make any difference. Neither did using different class FSD-s nor thrusters.

    You can find the data on Google Sheets at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing, or here as a BBCode sheet:

    Ship name FSD Class Pitch (50%) Roll (50%) Yaw (50%) Pitch (100%) Roll (100%) Yaw (100%)
    Sidewinder
    Class 2
    9s
    3s
    30s
    13s
    4s
    46s
    Hauler
    Class 2
    11s
    4s
    30s
    16s
    4s
    46s
    Adder
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    16s
    4s
    45s
    Eagle
    Class 3
    11s
    3s
    30s
    15s
    4s
    48s
    Imp. Courier
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    15s
    4s
    45s
    Imp. Eagle
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    24s
    16s
    5s
    38s
    Viper Mk III
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    18s
    5s
    48s
    Asp Scout
    Class 4
    10s
    3s
    24s
    13s
    4s
    36s
    Cobra Mk III
    Class 4
    10s
    4s
    44s
    14s
    5s
    1m 10s
    Cobra Mk IV
    Class 4
    15s
    4s
    37s
    23s
    4s
    55s
    Diamondback Scout
    Class 4
    10s
    4s
    24s
    16s
    4s
    38s
    Dolphin
    Class 4
    13s
    4s
    19s
    19s
    5s
    28s
    Fer-de-Lance
    Class 4
    18s
    5s
    30s
    30s
    6s
    48s
    Keelback
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    32s
    22s
    4s
    50s
    Type-6 Transporter
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    30s
    22s
    5s
    46s
    Viper Mk IV
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    30s
    22s
    5s
    48s
    Vulture
    Class 4
    11s
    4s
    30s
    15s
    5s
    45s
    Alliance Challenger
    Class 5
    18s
    5s
    26s
    29s
    6s
    41s
    Alliance Chieftain
    Class 5
    18s
    5s
    26s
    28s
    6s
    42s
    Asp Explorer
    Class 5
    12s
    4s
    46s
    16s
    5s
    1m 7s
    Diamondback Explorer
    Class 5
    14s
    4s
    29s
    18s
    5s
    45s
    Fed. Assault Ship
    Class 5
    12s
    4s
    20s
    17s
    5s
    31s
    Fed. Dropship
    Class 5
    18s
    5s
    26s
    29s
    5s
    41s
    Fed. Gunship
    Class 5
    19s
    6s
    20s
    29s
    5s
    34s
    Imp. Clipper
    Class 5
    13s
    5s
    20s
    17s
    5s
    29s
    Krait Mk II
    Class 5
    16s
    4s
    36s
    27s
    5s
    61s
    Orca
    Class 5
    18s
    6s
    20s
    26s
    7s
    31s
    Python
    Class 5
    17s
    4s
    39s
    27s-
    5s
    60s
    Type-7 Transporter
    Class 5
    21s
    6s
    20s
    33s
    8s
    33s
    Anaconda
    Class 6
    25s
    9s
    1m 2s
    39s
    10s
    1m 44s
    Fed. Corvette
    Class 6
    17s
    5s
    45s
    27s
    6s
    1m 15s
    Type-9 Heavy
    Class 6
    31s
    20s
    1m 2s
    50s
    24s
    1m 44s
    Beluga Liner
    Class 7
    19s
    6s
    21s
    27s
    8s
    24s
    Imp. Cutter
    Class 7
    25s
    8s
    46s
    41s
    9s
    1m 20s
    Type-10 Defender
    Class 7
    30s
    21s
    1m 7s
    47s
    24s
    1m 41s


    I sorted ships by their FSD classes. Personally, I find that a good way of categorising ships for exploration. "If I take this top-rolled FSD, what other ships could I use it in?" But having it as a spreadsheet can help you sort it differently, if you'd like.

    Some of my observations:

    - With small ships, a lot of the handling is the same. The small differences might simply come from measuring error.
    - Based on this, the Cobra Mk III performs better as an explorer ship than I expected. Plenty of internals, excellent forward speed, decent jump range and decent SC handling - and quite cheap.
    - The Clipper is a large ship, yet it handles like a small one - or even better than most of those, if you take advantage of its yaw. Plus it's the only FSD class 5 ship that can fit a class 7 fuel scoop.
    - Speaking of yaw, those Saud-Kruger passenger ships are surprisingly good at it. I mean, at full throttle the Beluga yaws a bit quicker than it pitches. Must be the wings.
    - The Type-10's terrible supercruise turning mainly comes not from its worse pitch rate, but the roll. I'd love to see data on the Type-9, see how it compares to that. But compared to others, it's twice as slow as even the Anaconda, and most ships would complete four loops by the time the T-10 does one.

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by marx View Post (Source)
    With no data on this, I set out to make my own.
    Bookmarked. Thanks for sharing.

  3. #3
    Hmm, I don't have access to the Corvette (I'm really hoping that the current Core Dynamics CG provides access, but I suspect it won't) but I could look at the others, will take a little while.
    (I'm collecting jumponium from one of the brain tree forests then I'll head back to Shinrarta and check these.)

    (edited to add)

    I'm testing now. Not having access to the Corvette is beginning to annoy me.

    (edited again)

    My goodness this is boring! Kudos to marx for doing so many of them!

  4. #4
    Did you use the same thrusters class for every ship (such as "D"). Just curious how "similar" the ships were when you compared them. Not sure how much variability in handling comes from mass, thruster type, etc.

  5. #5
    @ Jackie Silver: Oh, thanks in advance! Well, it's not exactly riveting, yes, but for me, it did help that I did it all in a good number of sessions, not all at once.
    Also, I think it was later confirmed by FD that the CG won't lift the Corvette's restriction.

    @ oldmanklc: As far as I can tell, thrusters make no difference here. Just to be sure, I tested it out quick: on an Imperial Clipper, there was no difference in SC between stock 5D thrusters and 6A dirty engineered thrusters. Also, I tried out a Cobra Mk III with a 4A FSD and a 4E FSD. No difference there either.
    As far as I can tell, the only way you can modify your SC turning rate is via the throttle.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by marx View Post (Source)
    @ Jackie Silver: Oh, thanks in advance! Well, it's not exactly riveting, yes, but for me, it did help that I did it all in a good number of sessions, not all at once.
    Also, I think it was later confirmed by FD that the CG won't lift the Corvette's restriction.
    Drat and bother. I've done all of them except for the Python which I'll do later when I've regained the will to live. I suspect the accuracy of my results, though.

    The FAS has excellent supercruise maneoverability.

    Linky.

  7. #7
    I've done the test for the Federal Corvette. I carried it out very distant from any gravity wells (over 10Kls from the nearest body, which was 55KLs by the time I'd finished) and using keyboard controls, which ensures constant pitch/yaw/roll rate. In each case to reduce errors despite using a stopwatch I measured the time to perform three complete loops. The blue zone as shown on the HUD for the Corvette puts 75% throttle right in the middle so I also carried out the measurement for the 75% throttle setting. I use keyboard shortcuts for the throttle settings to give me 50% / 75% / 100% exactly.
    .
    raw data (seconds):
    50% throttle: pitch 49.77; yaw 135.75; roll 14.83
    75% throttle: pitch 61.70; yaw 169.43; roll 16.38
    100% throttle: pitch 81.66; yaw 225.02; roll 18.37
    .
    degrees / sec (to 3 significant figures)
    50% throttle: pitch 21.7; yaw 7.96; roll 72.8
    75% throttle: pitch 17.5; yaw 6.37; roll 65.9
    100% throttle: pitch 13.2; yaw 4.80; roll 58.8

  8. #8
    That was much quicker than I thought. Thanks! Updated the first post with the data and credits then.

  9. #9
    I'm concerned that I haven't done a very good job - mine are only accurate to within a second or so, as I was eyeballing the times using a clock. The basic gist should be right though.

  10. #10
    I'm a big Python fan (which I never would have imagined), so I had to go out and take the numbers for it. These were all taken using a stopwatch and rounded to the closest second, which is probably the best we can do without a good horizontal reference - I used the line of the Milky Way, which has the advantage of being far enough away that the distance I moved in SC during a maneuver wouldn't throw it off, but it has the disadvantage of being a thick line.

    Anyways:

    Python
    50% Pitch: 17s
    50% Roll: 4s
    50% Yaw: 39s
    100% Pitch: 27s
    100% Roll: 5s
    100% Yaw: 60s

    It sounds like fittings don't really matter, but for the record the Python I used had a 5A FSD, 6A thrusters, and no engineering.

  11. #11
    Thanks! That's all the ships filled out then. Also, to the Google sheet, I added a conversion to speed as well.
    Yeah, my estimate for error would have been at least +/- 1s. The purpose was more to compare ships to each other anyway, not to do precise calculations on performance and whatnot. Like Edelgard von Rhein mentioned, I could have done multiple loops, or even better, record and time videos, but both would have taken much more time. Well, perhaps somebody will do more precise measurements sometime, although I don't expect them that to happen.

  12. #12
    I am reading the post and I still cannot get, if you are guys doing this for pure scientific reason or actual maneuvering capability in supercruise is important in some circumstances?

    When I supercruise, it is always dead straight line.. few light years, to get somewhere (or nowhere) but in those cases maneuverability would not matter for me at all

    Interdiction has actually completely separate mechanics/physics.. doesn't it?

  13. #13
    Good job on the stats, OP.

    Yet despite poor supercruise performance, the T-10 shines at reaching long distances in the galaxy in a short period of time ........ because it runs super cool and can scoop and jump very quickly. There is just enough supercruise manoueverability to achieve this.

    That's how commanders were able to reach Sag A and Beagle Point within two days of the ship emerging for purchase!

    Supercruise stats don't show that ability.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Deluvian View Post (Source)
    I am reading the post and I still cannot get, if you are guys doing this for pure scientific reason or actual maneuvering capability in supercruise is important in some circumstances?

    When I supercruise, it is always dead straight line.. few light years, to get somewhere (or nowhere) but in those cases maneuverability would not matter for me at all

    Interdiction has actually completely separate mechanics/physics.. doesn't it?
    To hit you with an interdiction tether, someone has to be able to get behind you. If you can out turn another vessel it's easier to delay or prevent the interdiction from ever starting. Conversely, it's also easier to get behind someone and tether them, if your ship is the one that turns better in SC.

    SC rotational performance is also important for exploration and is the prime reason I consider the Anaconda a poor explorer...it's annoying and time consuming to do detailed scans without carefully considering routes to minimizes maneuvering needed.

  15. #15
    Originally Posted by Lightspeed View Post (Source)
    Good job on the stats, OP.

    Yet despite poor supercruise performance, the T-10 shines at reaching long distances in the galaxy in a short period of time ........ because it runs super cool and can scoop and jump very quickly. There is just enough supercruise manoueverability to achieve this.

    That's how commanders were able to reach Sag A and Beagle Point within two days of the ship emerging for purchase!

    Supercruise stats don't show that ability.
    It's decent in that characteristic but will never see it in the buckyballing list, 2 days is actually not impressively fast.

    Originally Posted by marx View Post (Source)
    When I tried the recently released Type-10, personally I was surprised at how bad it handled in supercruise. Otherwise, it would make a decent exploration ship. But then the question became: exactly how bad is it when compared to the other ships? With no data on this, I set out to make my own. At first, I just stuck to explorer ships, but then I decided to go do multi-roles that are decent at exploration, and having done those as well, I then went to finish the rest as well.
    Oh, and I'm posting this in the exploration subforum because in my opinion, exploration is where supercruise handling is the most relevant.
    Thanks go to Edelgard von Rhein, Jackie Silver and Satsuma for sharing data from some of the missing ships!

    I tested the times a full loop required, supercruising in deep space, at both 50% throttle and 100% throttle. Note that I measured times with a stopwatch, so keep in mind the error from that! I didn't record and time videos, as that would have taken much longer. Also, I've rounded half up.
    Oh, and for the record (on methodology), I tested all ships at four pips to engines, but that doesn't appear to make any difference. Neither did using different class FSD-s nor thrusters.

    You can find the data on Google Sheets at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing, or here as a BBCode sheet:

    Ship name FSD Class Pitch (50%) Roll (50%) Yaw (50%) Pitch (100%) Roll (100%) Yaw (100%)
    Sidewinder
    Class 2
    9s
    3s
    30s
    13s
    4s
    46s
    Hauler
    Class 2
    11s
    4s
    30s
    16s
    4s
    46s
    Adder
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    16s
    4s
    45s
    Eagle
    Class 3
    11s
    3s
    30s
    15s
    4s
    48s
    Imp. Courier
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    15s
    4s
    45s
    Imp. Eagle
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    24s
    16s
    5s
    38s
    Viper Mk III
    Class 3
    12s
    4s
    30s
    18s
    5s
    48s
    Asp Scout
    Class 4
    10s
    3s
    24s
    13s
    4s
    36s
    Cobra Mk III
    Class 4
    10s
    4s
    44s
    14s
    5s
    1m 10s
    Cobra Mk IV
    Class 4
    15s
    4s
    37s
    23s
    4s
    55s
    Diamondback Scout
    Class 4
    10s
    4s
    24s
    16s
    4s
    38s
    Dolphin
    Class 4
    13s
    4s
    19s
    19s
    5s
    28s
    Fer-de-Lance
    Class 4
    18s
    5s
    30s
    30s
    6s
    48s
    Keelback
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    32s
    22s
    4s
    50s
    Type-6 Transporter
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    30s
    22s
    5s
    46s
    Viper Mk IV
    Class 4
    14s
    4s
    30s
    22s
    5s
    48s
    Vulture
    Class 4
    11s
    4s
    30s
    15s
    5s
    45s
    Asp Explorer
    Class 5
    12s
    4s
    46s
    16s
    5s
    1m 7s
    Diamondback Explorer
    Class 5
    14s
    4s
    29s
    18s
    5s
    45s
    Fed. Assault Ship
    Class 5
    12s
    4s
    20s
    17s
    5s
    31s
    Fed. Dropship
    Class 5
    18s
    5s
    26s
    29s
    5s
    41s
    Fed. Gunship
    Class 5
    19s
    6s
    20s
    29s
    5s
    34s
    Imp. Clipper
    Class 5
    13s
    5s
    20s
    17s
    5s
    29s
    Orca
    Class 5
    18s
    6s
    20s
    26s
    7s
    31s
    Python
    Class 5
    17s
    4s
    39s
    27s-
    5s
    60s
    Type-7 Transporter
    Class 5
    21s
    6s
    20s
    33s
    8s
    33s
    Anaconda
    Class 6
    25s
    9s
    1m 2s
    39s
    10s
    1m 44s
    Fed. Corvette
    Class 6
    17s
    5s
    45s
    27s
    6s
    1m 15s
    Type-9 Heavy
    Class 6
    31s
    20s
    1m 2s
    50s
    24s
    1m 44s
    Beluga Liner
    Class 7
    19s
    6s
    21s
    27s
    8s
    24s
    Imp. Cutter
    Class 7
    25s
    8s
    46s
    41s
    9s
    1m 20s
    Type-10 Defender
    Class 7
    30s
    21s
    1m 7s
    47s
    24s
    1m 41s


    I sorted ships by their FSD classes. Personally, I find that a good way of categorising ships for exploration. "If I take this top-rolled FSD, what other ships could I use it in?" But having it as a spreadsheet can help you sort it differently, if you'd like.

    Some of my observations:

    - The blue zone in supercruise isn't static, and 50% is usually outside it. I never paid much attention to this: does it show where your acceleration is best? (For decelerating on approach)
    - With small ships, a lot of the handling is the same. The small differences might simply come from measuring error.
    - Based on this, the Cobra Mk III performs better as an explorer ship than I expected. Plenty of internals, excellent forward speed, decent jump range and decent SC handling - and quite cheap.
    - The Clipper is a large ship, yet it handles like a small one - or even better than most of those, if you take advantage of its yaw. Plus it's the only FSD class 5 ship that can fit a class 7 fuel scoop.
    - Speaking of yaw, those Saud-Kruger passenger ships are surprisingly good at it. I mean, at full throttle the Beluga yaws a bit quicker than it pitches. Must be the wings.
    - The Type-10's terrible supercruise turning mainly comes not from its worse pitch rate, but the roll. I'd love to see data on the Type-9, see how it compares to that. But compared to others, it's twice as slow as even the Anaconda, and most ships would complete four loops by the time the T-10 does one.
    I believe the blue zone is 75% throttle. +rep for the data.

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