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Thread: Buckyball Racing Club presents: The Last Gasp (06.01.3304 - 14.01.3304)

  1. #136
    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    Morning everyone!

    I'll be doing the final scoreboard (and maybe some pie
    Yay! Pie!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    *puts away the fancy party hat and plastic cup*

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    I've just watched the entirety of Cmdr Alot's 2018ly run and I must say it's wrong (or at least, not how I would have done it) in so many ways
    Hey, it's Alot you're speaking of, he can't fly as random as anyone of us mortals!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    no use of bookmarks
    Ok, that's pretty rough even for my standards.

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    supercrusing between multiple stations in same system rather than jumping back and forth
    Done (albeit only in my first couple runs), check!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    manually selecting stations from nav' panel
    Done, check!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    heavy shieldless landings
    *CLANG!* - a heavily dented check!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    cutting fuel fine in favour of hot scooping and then having to refuel at stations occasionally
    Done, check! (definitely faster than scooping in some cases)

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    flying past binary moons and looping back around
    Done, check!

    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    terrible music
    Can't honestly say, everything sounded muffled and I felt dizzy all the time, memories are sketchy.

    So what I gather from all of this matter how you plan and how you fly, Alot does it faster. No surprises here.

  2. #137
    Scoreboard coming ... as soon as I've grabbed some lunch. Blame IMGUR for being temporarily off-line.

  3. #138
    OK, (final? - pending any corrections or last minute submissions) scoreboard ...

    Just two new scores - first we have a new entry from Cmdr Markzx59 who decided to take his "Hellfire" DBX to a bunch of remote outposts in the Pleiades all over 300ly away from LHS 142. Somewhat surprisingly (at face value anyway) this tactic failed dismally and leaves Markzx59 at the bottom of the Unlimited table with a final score of 1328.03 (just 18s of O2 remaining on the clock). Nice try sir, sorry it didn't work out.

    Then in an ultimately unnecessary (but nevertheless perfectly understandable) bid to protect his number 1 position from cookiehole, we have an improved Hauler run from Cmdr Hanekura Shizuka in "Breezy". With a total distance of 1210.73ly, he finished his 5-stop tour (he was keen that I should keep this secret until the end) with 52s left on the clock for a bonus of 26ly and a final score of 1236.73.

    Oh, and speaking of Cmdr Shizuka, I think I'm right in saying that the following award is overdue:

    So, pending any last minute submissions, corrections or disputes, it looks like our winners are:

    Unlimited Class
    First: Cmd Alot
    Second: Cmdr <-lightspeed->
    Third: Cmdr Aken B.

    Hauler Class
    First: Cmdr Hanekura Shizuka
    Second: Cmdr Samwell Drakhyr
    Third: Cmdr Aken B.

    Congratulations to the winners (please feel free to share the videos of your run in this thread to silence the doubts of those who are thinking "But, but, HOW?"), commiserations to the losers and thanks as always to everyone who took part.

    Pies coming soon(ish).

  4. #139
    Thank you for hosting this race, Alec, and my apologies for not giving this race the attention it deserves.

    Apparently, my mind is in full Subnautica Mode, and it apparently won't let me get sidetracked by other things (like Elite) until I've officially escaped the Planet, or I finally make a fatal error on my Hardcore survival game that's now approaching 60 hours in length.

    For the record, I'd managed to find two systems within a jump of each other, about 200 light years out, each with three outposts within 100 ls of their primary, for the regulation Hauler race. I think my plan was solid, I'd managed to make up half the time I needed between dives, but my heart just wasn't in it.

    On a more morbid note, given the nature of the Mesmer in Subnautica, I'm half convinced this race was a dying dream of one of my previous Hardcore saves. I had quite a few drowning deaths from that tiny fish, before I learned to avoid that thing like the plague.

  5. #140
    Esvandiary, Alec,
    Can you please share the link of the wining runs... so at least we (have the opportunity to) learn something from the people that knows how to fly (fast)...

    Thanks for this very fun race and your time to marshal it.

    Congrats to the winners!!

  6. #141
    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    Oh, and Stinja, you're closer to not being last than I thought!
    Ha, your backhand compliment / insult wasn't even accurate - 2nd to last!

    Congratulations to the winners (please feel free to share the videos of your run in this thread to silence the doubts of those who are thinking "But, but, HOW?")
    Cheers for organising. It's definitely been an... experience. Vids from the top chaps would be appreciated, i'm just wondering: but, but, HOW?

  7. #142
    Right, here goes... It looks like I took a somewhat different approach to most people for this one, both for ship and outpost choices.

    The Ship
    The obvious candidate to me was always the DBX due to its range and small pad. Initially I actually thought it'd be unbeatable as a result... But it has a weakness: its speed in normal space is (for a racing ship) pretty abysmal. I've got grade 5 clean drives on my DBX and it barely nudges past 400.
    When you're trying to visit as many outposts as possible, that weakness is significant - and only gets more so the more stops you make. So, I decided to give it a go with an old Buckyball classic: the Hauler. It can't jump quite as far - mine had a full-tank range of 46.77Ly - but it can boost to about 570 with engineered Enhanced Performance Thrusters.

    The Route Plan
    It seemed sensible to me that to get a good score, the way to go would be to sprint out from LHS 142 as far as feasible, visit a bunch of faraway outposts in succession, and head home. That way you get as many points as possible per landing.

    As for choosing the outposts... The first system that came to mind when I read the rules was Pareco, the oddity of a system which has six stations within about 2Mm of each other. Unfortunately, I quickly realised that a) Pareco was barely 100Ly from Vo Dock, b) only two of the six are outposts, and c) they're all 11000Ls from the drop-in point anyway.
    But, I was pretty sure I'd seen sort-of similar cases, where co-orbiting binary planets have starports or outposts around both bodies. Such planets would usually be very close together - often as little as 0.1Ls - which would mean outposts easily within supercruise striking distance of each other.
    The only questions: are systems with this layout common enough to make a viable route out of, and can you get good runs in despite unpredictable outpost orbits?

    As it turned out, the answers were a) just about, and b) just about. One snag I didn't consider, though, was that having two planets in very close vicinity bumps up the likelihood of obscured jump targets from "if you're really unlucky" to "pray to the gods of orbital mechanics."
    I managed to find five candidate systems which made a reasonable route - four of them could be hit with consecutive jumps, with the fifth being two jumps away, and all outposts within about 50Ls of the arrival star to minimise supercruise travel.
    Both ends were five jumps from LHS 142 - which would have been four jumps in a DBX. So, the ship choice was costing me two jumps - and therefore the straight-line speed and manoeuvrability of the Hauler would need to end up saving me two jumps' worth of oxygen. In the end, I suspect it did that and then some.

    The Route
    LHS 142 - vo Dock
    (5) → Shotel (203.94) - Bharadwaj Stop (12Ls), Nomen Colony (12Ls)
    (2) → Aebocorio (196.23) - Dolgov Camp (31Ls), Albitzky Port (31Ls)
    (1) → Tirajo (187.37) - Newcomb Port (51Ls), Hooker Colony (51Ls)
    (1) → Njoror (213.66) - Alfven Orbital (16Ls), Bouvard Reach (16Ls)
    (1) → Teletes (203.33) - Bowen Hub (28Ls), Korolev Mines (28Ls)
    (5) → LHS 142 - vo Dock

    The supercruise travel time from one outpost to the other varied depending on the orbits, but was usually somewhere between 15 and 30 seconds - significantly quicker than coming in from the main star!
    On my first successful run I had to bug out without visiting Korolev, but it was a close call - I knew I didn't have to gain much time to have a shot at getting all ten. Eventually, the stars (and outposts) aligned.

    The Video
    Honestly, this was the scrappiest out of all the runs I did, successful or otherwise. I have no idea how I still had time left at the end - there certainly aren't many examples of decent landings in there. Planetary braking heroics pay off, I guess?

    (Apologies for the occasional A/V issues in the video, I think my PC is slightly unhappy; I also had to cut out a music track that YouTube didn't like.)

    This race has been really good fun - and part of me wonders if the mechanic of racing the O₂ counter might be interesting enough to justify its use in other races. Until I actually did the race I wasn't expecting it to be quite as compelling as it was! In summary: excellent job Alec, and thanks very much for hosting

  8. #143
    First, Alec, thanks for organizing the race. This was an absolute joy to be in, and a clinic in some classic Buckyball racing technique: route planning, planetary braking, scoop-and-jump, efficient landing (Well, maybe a clinic in how not to do that...)


    1. Planetary braking I'm getting better at. Landing... not so much.
    2. What's interesting about this race was how the route evolved over time. The premise is fairly straightforward: Go out as far as you think feasible, land on as many outposts as you can, go back. So we all go onto eddb to look up candidates, we try a few things, we figure out how many we can fit in. We experiment with things like one-station-per-visit versus multiple-stations-per-visit; we work on our planetary braking technique; we get better at reading the station and how to get to the landing pad. It took several unsuccessful runs before I found one that worked. And, then, once I found that one that worked, I could run the math and make it better. Put simply, there was an evolution to the run.
    3. My personal favorite unsuccessful run: jumping into a white-dwarf system with 0:02 on the clock, and not having time to turn on the oxygen. What a beautiful way to go. (Will have to post a pic of that later.)
    4. To me, the question of distance v. stops came down to this math: Another jump and back to get to wherever I was going added a minute to the time - and 30 ly to every station I landed on. So if it takes roughly 2.5-3 minutes to add another station jump-in and landing... another station would subtract at least 60-90 ly from EVERY OTHER station result. For 5 stations (which is what I determined I could fit in at distance), that's a hefty penalty. So, to me, going as far out as feasible, landing on 5 stations there, and going back... the question was how far I could go out. If the bubble extended out 30ly further, it would be even better. So, for me, it became a question of "How far out can I go, and still have a 5-station run"? As it turned out, pretty far.
    5. The first successful run I made was a Basuseku - Ngeratha - Skoko - Ngeratha - Pipinoukhe run - one which left 2 minutes on the clock. It took 8 jumps to get to Basuseku and to Pipinoukhe. So... I decided to extend it out a bit and see if I could add a jump to get to the stations, which led to my final route.
    6. Which brings me into why I wanted the number kept secret. I'm not the best pilot here - and it would be VERY easy to figure out the stations I went to, just based on the numbers. 5 stations, 1210.73 "raw" distance... that means an *average* of 240 light-years distance. There aren't that many that fit. The stations, in order:
    Royo Hub - Votadja - 231.73 ly
    Danjon Stop - Atjil - 247.04 ly
    Smirnova Port - Papako - 253.19 ly
    Fedden Stop - Atjil - 247.04 ly
    Chiang Landing - Votadja - 231.73 ly
    If you go into EDDB and look up stations within 50ls of their primary, Papako and Atjil are near the end of that list, at the very edges of the Bubble; beyond that is sparse territory. Also, Votadja to Atjil and Atjil to Papako were single-jump.
    7. When I planned my final route, I calculated that the additional jump there and back should leave me with 1 minute left when I get into the station. The first run ended with only 0:07 left. In other words, my first successful run was run better, but my second had the higher score. So... I ran one more time, to get the final entry.
    8. Unintentional Intimidation: getting rep from Cookiehole two hours before the end of a race you're leading in.

    The run can be found in video form here:

  9. #144
    Haven't had time to read the comments yet but I see some good stuff in there so thanks everyone!

    Meanwhile ... pie charts!
    (which I'm not very good at and have been wasting far too much time trying assorted bits of free software)

    So, from a simple count of system names from ALL the submissions:

    All the Hauler submissions:

    And all the Unlimited submissions:

    Of course there's all sorts of issues with these. Where people have visited multiple stations in the same system that will skew the count for that system (perhaps rightly, perhaps wrongly) and where some people have submitted more runs than others, sometimes on the same route, that will also skew the count. Ho hum.

    Sorry, it's 3pm and I've done zero actual work today!

  10. #145
    My stations

    Maia - Moni's hub 354.47
    Pre logistics support gamma 330.61
    Cooper research station 323.00
    Pre logistics support zetta 310.95

    I very nearly used the same strategy as CMDR alot but decided I was on to a winner with the Pleiades...

    I was very close to landing at Pre logistics support delta, but there just wasn't time...

  11. #146
    I'll post a picture of my last route planning scratch sheet later on, but like Hanekura Shizuka said, it was an evolution. I tried to tackle the course in a beefed up Hauler (not quite as good as CMDR Alot's), simply because I don't like to use a DBX.

    At the start, I did a few back-of-an-envelope calculations regarding the number of jumps and the number of landings, and found a broad optimum somewhere on the middle ground - going further out or trying to collect more landings would both result in a lower overall score. After the first successful run, it was basically a matter of optimization: how many more systems can I find within my range that are further out than the systems I have already used?

    Invaluable for that were eddb (of course) and the distance matrix of edtools. Unlike the others, I first limited my station distances to 10, later 25 ls from the jump-in point, and unlike Esvandiary, I also only found one system with close orbiting dual stations, HIP 51280.

    My optimum turned out to be 4 jumps out, visit the stations, then 4 jumps back. Going further out would have reduced the number of systems I could have visited, increasing the number of systems would have reduced the range. And for those 4 jumps, refuelling at a station for me is (marginally - but those make the difference between bonus points and asphyxation) faster than scooping on the way.

    Thanks to Alec for creating an interesting race (my HRM recorded that as "elevated excercise level", which I don't always manage when cycling to work...), and to everyone else for keeping it interesting.

  12. #147
    Originally Posted by Alec Turner View Post (Source)
    Many pies of various colours
    Two observations...
    a) I have skewed the hell out of those due to submitting several runs containing two stops in (mostly) the same set of systems.
    b) Nobody else went to any of the aforementioned systems!

  13. #148
    excellent race idea Alec and thanks for hosting. really enjoyed it.

    after my first, rather rudimentary, attempts at route plotting and the subsequent requirement to go further a revised strategy was needed. I took to inara and used the 'nearest' function to locate suitable candidates. I too flirted with the Pleiades but soon discovered that despite it being one of the most remote areas of the bubble almost all the docks are full blown starports, and as Mark found out it the ones that are there don't add up to enough!

    i managed to find a route that netted 2,099 Ly but unfortunately i only left myself enough time for one run at it! alas i muffed the first two approaches and it was an uphill battle after that. I hissy fit quitted after i realised i wasn't going to get back in time. Looking back i think my insistence -rather than testing - that jumping out and back in rather than supercruising may have been an error. (I may revisit the route this week to see if it could have been a contender)

    mostly i'm pleased that after a couple of months off i can still fly (obviously coming second is pretty cool too)!

    congratulations to CMDR Hanekura Shizuka and CMDR Alot.

    much fun and glad to be back.


  14. #149
    Originally Posted by Esvandiary View Post (Source)
    Two observations...
    a) I have skewed the hell out of those due to submitting several runs containing two stops in (mostly) the same set of systems.
    b) Nobody else went to any of the aforementioned systems!
    I have plans to do another set of pies based on different routes only and only counting each system once per route. I'm not sure I can be bothered tho. Has everyone had their fill of pie?

  15. #150
    Originally Posted by Stinja View Post (Source)
    Ha, your backhand compliment / insult wasn't even accurate - 2nd to last!
    Quite right! I'd also like to add that I feel, due to a certain familiarity via the Fuel Rats, I probably haven't treated you with the courtesy and respect normally due to a newcomer to Buckyball Racing. I trust this hasn't given you a bad first impression (we're a friendly bunch usually) and really hope that you'll come back for another race in the future.

    That goes for all the newcomers here actually and massive thanks for giving the race a try, we really appreciate it.

    Originally Posted by wanwan159 View Post (Source)
    if i knew about this race sooner i probably would have participated
    We try to maintain a timetable of upcoming events at and will also generally post a link to the next race (when it's available) at the end of the thread for the previous one so if you stay subscribed and check your subscriptions regularly you should spot it. I and a few others also tend to change our signature images here on the forum to a race banner when a race is in the offing so if you ever see something that looks like a Buckyball banner (it will usually feature the club logo) then click on it.

    Also - do let me know if you can think of other ways we can spread the word. For this one I mentioned it all over the forums, I did numerous posts in various ED related facebooks groups, I managed to get an advert into the pre-christmas Sagittarius Eye magazine, we got featured in the official Frontier newsletter, Pete Wotherspoon gave us a shoutout in his Galnet News roundup and the race was mentioned on Lave Radio. Frankly I'm always slightly baffled as to why we don't get more participants - then again, maintaining the scoreboard for hundreds of racers would have killed me!