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Thread: An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

  1. #151
    I don't think you did enought logs tbf.
    However 5 should be enough but you know what this gaming community is like.

  2. #152
    Originally Posted by Rinzler o7o7o7 View Post (Source)
    Yes, according to support. They can determine if something was a log using internal methods, supposedly.
    This conflicts with my understanding. Source required.

  3. #153
    Originally Posted by Riverside View Post (Source)
    The primary goal must be to prevent the issue, or reduce it's impact. A punishment would only build resentment which could harm sales. FDev are not the police, and comparing CLogging to hacking is pretty extreme.

    If long term trends (karma system) pick up solid evidence of cynical behaviour then sure, throw the book at 'em. But I don't think the OP's example fits that pattern. We all draw the line in different places, the point of the proposal I linked to is that it can be zero tolerance, no line need be drawn. It just removes the benefit of doing so against another player.
    They don't prevent anything at all if no action is taken.

  4. #154
    Originally Posted by Paige Harvey View Post (Source)
    Hey guys,

    I've responded to this thread over on Reddit and pasted the response below as well.

    "Good evening everyone,

    I understand the concerns that have been addressed in this thread and would like to take this opportunity to reassure you all that the team responsible for investigating issues such as cheats and combat logging have reviewed and verified that their processes have been followed, and that the account was reviewed by the team as part of these reports.


    A huge number of factors go into reviewing each report and I can personally confirm, having been a part of the team that reviews these reports, that action is taken on a regular basis. However, we do not discuss the process, tools or systems for detection publically, as doing so would help people avoid detection.


    While we understand the frustration caused when met with combat logging, continuous attempts at uncovering our investigation methods is not the way to assist with this being dealt with, as any information we give could be used to avoid detection.
    As you likely know, combat logging is something that has been discussed openly with the community by our development team. There have been discussions and feedback on concepts such as a Karma system (here’s an example). This is one idea being considered in order to address such issues.


    I’m sure you can appreciate that finding a solution that allows for automatic detection against rule breakers while also being fair on honest players is something that holds a number of challenges. It is something under discussion and active consideration but we have nothing to announce right now.


    Kind regards,


    Paige"

    Thankyou Paige, much appreciated.

    For mine, I don't condone combat logging in open mode (apart from the menu logging method, given that Frontier themselves are ok with the timer approach). That said, nor do I have much sympathy for SDC either, given their history and past actions of many of their members (and those of like-minded groups). Similar to what has been previously mentioned by others, I'm not convinced the SDC 'investigation' has been approached in quite the right way to adequately distinguish their sample from legitimate disconnects. Any investigation of reports by Frontier needs an appropriate pattern of behaviour - I'm not in a position to know what Frontier considers to be sufficient for that but nor do I care and I applaud Frontier for sticking to their guns in not divulging their methods. It would be nice if they could advertise some stats perhaps in regard to numbers of reports/investigations, numbers of confirmed offenders, numbers of shadowbans dished out etc, but there are those who would wear those stats like a badge of honour so I don't blame them for not advertising such stats.

    Personally I also believe the only viable approach is to implement a contextual PvP flag, but we know Frontier aren't about to do that.

    Fact is there will always be some happy to resort to combat logging, just as there will always be some happy to behave like asshats. We're typically told that the latter should be accepted as a fact of life in playing in open mode - while that remains so, then the former should also be an accepted fact of life in playing in that same mode. Deal with it and move on.

  5. #155
    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    Tl;dr:

    Crap, we got caught again, time to copy and paste our response from last time and hopefully people will be appeased again.

    *Chuckles in the background*

    FD, I personally don't care about combat logging any more since I gave up on piracy because of how it's just impossible to support in this game and with the attitude of the development team.

    But seriously, at this point owning up to not giving two crap about combat logging is better than this half-reared facade pulling that really isn't fooling anyone other than new players or white knights.

    Shame on you, FD, not because I care about combat logging anymore, but this serious shameful display.
    Maybe they don't have the resources to sift and deal with all the cases that their detection systems (they have these running I am assuming) throw up?

  6. #156
    Originally Posted by Enderby View Post (Source)
    Maybe they don't have the resources to sift and deal with all the cases that their detection systems (they have these running I am assuming) throw up?
    The whole point of having a system like that is to increase efficiency to the point where it requires minimal human input to handle those cases.

    If it's not efficient to the point where their staffs can handle it, that goes to length to spell out how much they do not care.

    It's funny, I don't even care about combat logging anymore but this kind of shady PR is something I despise.

  7. #157
    Originally Posted by Sole Hunter View Post (Source)
    They don't prevent anything at all if no action is taken.
    If you can't do it you have prevented it. Obviously you can't make it impossible to ungracefully disconnect, there are lots of innocent reasons why it might happen (crappy internet etc).

    So the next best thing is to make it so there is no advantage. As an example if the mission list remained unchanged whatever mode you were in you would not be prevented from mode switching, but there would no longer be any point in doing it. I hope this example is clear.

  8. #158
    Oh the irony... the players abusing the lack of crime and punishment to gank, are complaining about the players abusing the simplistic netcode to escape them.

  9. #159
    Originally Posted by GluttonyFang View Post (Source)
    Tl;dr:

    Crap, we got caught again, time to copy and paste our response from last time and hopefully people will be appeased again.

    *Chuckles in the background*

    FD, I personally don't care about combat logging any more since I gave up on piracy because of how it's just impossible to support in this game and with the attitude of the development team.

    But seriously, at this point owning up to not giving two crap about combat logging is better than this half-reared facade pulling that really isn't fooling anyone other than new players or white knights.

    Shame on you, FD, not because I care about combat logging anymore, but this serious shameful display.
    I hope you dug your shell scrape deep enough before making that comment.

    White Knight fire incoming, your posit


  10. #160
    Originally Posted by Vacendak View Post (Source)
    ... and they wonder why Open is such a barren wasteland.

    https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs
    https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs
    It isn't, I see people all the time in Open. As long as you don't purposefully eschew high-traffic areas, it isn't difficult to find other commanders (and in some places, in healthy numbers).

    Just because every nondescript system you fly to isn't bursting at the seams with hollow squares doesn't mean people aren't out there.

  11. #161
    How do other games deal with alt-tabbing exits? (or whatever the method is, task-kill thingy)

  12. #162
    I still don't understand why the so-called victims of combat logging actually care, so someone pulls the plug on you... whatever?

    I've had a couple of characters log on me and I laughed. A win is a win.

  13. #163
    Originally Posted by Kyokushin View Post (Source)
    Paige, that is simple.

    They provied evidence for fake account. You do not know it was fake, and it does not matter. A fact is the cable has been cut and Fdev did nothing.

    It proves FDev did nothing, as everyone expected. I am reporting few combat logging every day i am playing, and i am seeing these commanders still in-game.
    Maybe, or maybe FDEV are just better at identifying SDC's false reports.

  14. #164
    Originally Posted by Un1k0rn View Post (Source)
    This conflicts with my understanding. Source required.
    https://imgur.com/Ag4NQAO

  15. #165
    Originally Posted by Faybs View Post (Source)
    Oh the irony... the players abusing the lack of crime and punishment to gank, are complaining about the players abusing the simplistic netcode to escape them.
    I can certainly understand this perspective. It does feel a little bit like that doesn't it - consequences for destroying CMDRs have been so light while the impact is almost entirely felt by the victim, it's not really surprising that some would resort to combat logging. I find switching to solo or private a better option personally.

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