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Thread: An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

  1. #16
    I guess they simply assume C&P will fix it and don't bother anymore.

  2. #17
    So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

    Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when you couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

    I think I have a meme for this.


  3. #18
    Originally Posted by Franc Kaos View Post (Source)
    I've played many MMO games over the years with barely any disconnections (Archeage and ESO were bad in the beginning but improved to almost never losing connection. ED is the first one where I got random disconnections in a crowded instance, leaving warp, arriving on a planet - so I think they need to get their own house in order before shadow banning customers. Seems like the only way they can tell it's not an adjudication / connection error vs someone combat logging is to watch if someone is in combat and constantly gets disconnected only when they're low on health.
    The problem with that is that:
    Tradiotional MMO = Server - Client Architecture
    Elite Dangerous - P2P Architecture

    Still CLogging is a bad sport,
    connection problems in ED usually resort to empty instances,
    rubberbanding and weird hit detection,
    not the invulnerable ship then magically vanishing.

    Originally Posted by Knightshark View Post (Source)
    I guess they simply assume C&P will fix it and don't bother anymore.
    With C&P standing for chips & popcorn? Aye.
    Crime and punishment? Nay.
    So many good suggestions,
    so few read or taken into the design.

  4. #19
    The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

    If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

  5. #20
    Whilst I don't approve of anybody pulling the plug midway through an encounter...do People genuinely WANT a software development company to be THAT involved in the trivia and minutia of people PLAYING the game, that they'll ACTUALLY intervene?
    Crazy...game players can be idiots...it's a shame...move on...
    DON'T expect Frontier to behave like "teacher" and make everybody "play nice" in the schoolyard or it's detentions all round!
    Crazy...they're a real company staffed by real people with real things to do...not deal with this sort of nonsense...

  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Franc Kaos View Post (Source)
    I've played many MMO games over the years with barely any disconnections (Archeage and ESO were bad in the beginning but improved to almost never losing connection). ED is the first one where I got random disconnections in a crowded instance, leaving warp, arriving on a planet, and it still occurs on busy weekends - so I think they need to get their own house in order before shadow banning customers. Seems like the only way they can tell it's not an adjudication / connection error vs someone combat logging is to watch if someone is in combat and constantly gets disconnected only when they're low on health.
    Funny thing is, I play with other Australians and we all have never been disconnected while in a combat situation. Even with our bad internet. There is no excuse for it. Like I said. You should not be playing in a multiplayer game mode if your internet is that bad. And if someone puts in a ticket to Fdev with video evidence of someone logging, well there is no excuse this is not punished with a ban. It's really pretty simple.

  7. #22
    Originally Posted by Devari View Post (Source)
    So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

    Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when yoo couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

    I think I have a meme for this.

    https://i.imgur.com/VG1PfEo.jpg
    The engineers cheating was dealt with. Publicly. Evidently, combat log cheating is being ignored.

    Cheating is cheating. it should be dealt with.

  8. #23
    Originally Posted by GG7 View Post (Source)
    The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

    If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

    You got a problem with that?

    You're an idiot.
    Quote from FDevs response on engineer exploitation,
    did they just post it and not take action?
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...t-Action-Taken


    Hello CMDRs,

    We would like to provide the community with an update regarding the recently highlighted Engineers exploit, which allowed high-grade blueprints to be rolled with low-grade materials. This exploit was removed from the game earlier this month.

    This morning, during the standard Thursday update, we took action against a number of accounts which had deliberately used this exploit to gain an advantage in their Engineer rolls. The purpose of this was to not only address those players who had regrettably chosen to take advantage of this exploit, but also the significant unfair advantage gained over other users who had chosen not to do so.

    While we don’t publicly discuss account specific bans and actions, we wanted to give everyone as much clarity on the broader steps being taken in light of this exploit. As a result, on each identified accounts, the following action has been taken:

    - All Engineer modifications which match IDs with a blueprint used in illegitimate rolls have been removed. The module will be retained, but will no longer hold a modification.

    - This action has been performed on all owned ships, and all modules held in storage.

    - No reimbursement of materials spent on the removed modifications will be granted.

    - Users affected by this change will have received a notification and warning through their in-game inbox.

    - All modifications have been removed which match the identified blueprint IDs only. This may include modifications of the same blueprint ID earned through standard rolls, but due to the nature of this exploit, we consider this outcome acceptable. Modifications of unrelated blueprints will not be affected.

    (For example: A player has two ships with a Grade 5 FSD Increased Range modification and one ship with a Grade 5 FSD Shielded modification. The player used the exploit to gain the FSD Increased Range modification on one ship, but that modification will be removed from both FSD Increased Range ships. The FSD Shielded modification will remain untouched on the third ship.)


    The specific part of the Code of Conduct this relates to can be found here:

    No cheating or taking advantage of exploits in the game
    1. We do not tolerate cheating of any kind in the game, this includes using automated programs or services offered outside of the game to generate an advantage, altering game code or using cheat codes.
    2. We also do not tolerate the use of any exploits or the use of any possible bugs in the game to generate player advantage.
    3. Any player caught cheating or taking advantage of any exploits or bugs will be penalised and could face a game ban.

    We would also like to direct users to our Knowledge Base page regarding action taken against an account if those affected have any questions.

    In summary, we would like to remind everyone that while this is not the only instance of an advantage being discovered by manipulating the game client, it is one which resulted in a physical and significant advantage over other CMDRs. We felt it necessary to take this action and will do so again in future if circumstances demand it. As such, we encourage users who believe they have found a client exploit to contact us with as much information as possible, so we can investigate further. Thank you for your patience during this period.

    Regards,

    Your Frontier Support Team


    I really would like to know if the playerbase still would resent to clogging,
    if every job, every single loadout had better chances against each other
    combat wise, due to removing engineers and hitpoint modules.

  9. #24
    Originally Posted by MottiKhan View Post (Source)
    The engineers cheating was dealt with. Publicly. Evidently, combat log cheating is being ignored.

    Cheating is cheating. it should be dealt with.
    It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

    No real "punishment" or other consequences. No compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

    FD can't "fix" combat logging because of the way the game is designed. They can't even monitor or detect it properly. It is therefore not possible to "punish" it.

    Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by GG7 View Post (Source)
    The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

    If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

    You got a problem with that?

    You're an idiot.
    Wut? You aware that all those "exploited" engineer upgrades was purged from everyone who had those right? Jusy saying... HEH

  11. #26
    Originally Posted by Devari View Post (Source)
    So let me get this straight. PvP groups cheated for over a year with the Engineering exploit, griefed players with those illegally-obtained mods, and all that happened was that those specific mods were removed. The players who suffered losses from that griefing were never compensated in any way. Yet somehow these same PvP groups expect FD to "punish" players for combat logging when the game remains inherently unstable and actually "proving" that it was intentional rather than a game crash is not actually possible until the game stability issue are addressed.

    Sorry, but if you cheat then you lose all credibility in asking FD to "enforce" certain rules for you when yoo couldn't follow the game rules yourself.

    I think I have a meme for this.
    A few people in PvP were involved with that - not even everyone in SDC was involved with that. Don't wrap up the entire PvP community/playstyle in the actions of a few people just to make your silly point.

    The players that were involved were punished and their accounts were put on notice. Not even that hint of a wrist-slap happens for habitual combat loggers.

    Most of us did our griefing with legit mods and continue to do so to this day.

  12. #27
    Originally Posted by GG7 View Post (Source)
    The fact that Frontier has allowed some truly "exploited" engineer upgrades to remain in the game, despite overwhelming evidence of these being achieved through unadulterated cheating, makes anything regarding combat logging the Mootest point in history.

    If I come against a ship that despite having ridiculously overcharged weapons, capable of taking down ANY shield system within a few minutes, is unable to take that ship's shields down AT ALL, I would log out long before I would ever consider attempting a combat engagement with such an OBVIOUS CHEAT!

    You got a problem with that?

    You're an idiot.
    Post calling people names, and at the same time actively promoting what FDEV have already CONFRIMED to be exploitative and cheating behavior.. mixed with a tinge of "whataboutism" for good measure.

  13. #28
    Originally Posted by Devari View Post (Source)
    It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

    No real "punishment" or other consequences. Not compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

    Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.
    Well FD did take an action by removing the modules,
    the least they could to to combat proven clogging is to impound
    a rebuy.

    Your points can just be reflected and directed towards people
    using clogging aswell.
    It is a two sided sword,
    careful what you ask for.

    I for one welcome an investigation in these topics,
    however i strongly dislike the abolishment of these discussion
    by turning them into a feces slinging fest.
    Stay factual and evaluate the test,
    constructive criticism is a boon, not a doom.

  14. #29
    Originally Posted by Devari View Post (Source)
    It really wasn't "dealt with" other than having the exploit-obtained mods removed.

    No real "punishment" or other consequences. No compensation for everyone they trolled and griefed over the entire year. No reason to truly set an "example" that discourages players from taking advantage of an exploit in the future.

    FD can't "fix" combat logging because of the way the game is designed. They can't even monitor or detect it properly. It is therefore not possible to "punish" it.

    Sorry but cheaters lose all credibility and no one will take them seriously. What you're suggesting is like Lance Armstrong telling players not to use steroids. It's just not going to be taken seriously.
    No. I'm saying, as someone who has never cheated, that cheating is cheating. It should be dealt with.

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by Pipko View Post (Source)
    Wut? You aware that all those "exploited" engineer upgrades was purged from everyone who had those right? Jusy saying... HEH
    Nope.

    Frontier NEVER OFFICIALLY came out and provided "any" details on what was done and which ships/players (if any) were actually removed from the game.

    I have encountered ships that were obviously running just such exploited upgrades long after FDev "supposedly" eliminated the problem. I also know of none of the "well known" participants in these exploits having their account banned or otherwise removed from the community.

    Really no idea where you got the idea that this was ever resolved to anyone's satisfaction. ????

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