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Thread: Save The Kill Warrant Scanner!

  1. #361
    Originally Posted by Bunkerkind Anni View Post (Source)
    you seem to ignore (deliberately?) that I am responding to those complaining about the not confirmed credit income nerf, and telling them that this is not what this topic is about.

    sometimes i wished some would read back at least a few posts before responding...
    You literally responded directly to a post I made - quote and all....and that post is still there...and now you pretend you were responding to somthing else? lololol yeah pull the other one!

  2. #362
    I must admit I'd be more engaged -- on this subject and others -- if David Braben was more visible in the process. His was the voice I always trusted the most when it came to the direction the Elite franchise took, both during the Kickstarter and first year of development and whenever he was called upon to wax nostalgic about the original games in magazine articles, lectures or documentaries. Elite and Frontier were very different beasts yet managed to capture the same combination of wanderlust and technical bleeding edgery of their respective days. Not to diminish Ian Bell's invaluable contributions to the original, but the passion for the legacy... that was 100% Braben.

    And I guess by extension I should trust in the people he chose to guide the development of ED, but to me there's something missing. Sandro et al seem like decent people, competent enough and certainly passionate about doing the best they can (or at least appearing to do the best they can). But it's not clear to me that they "get" that undefinable something that makes ED and the legacy on which it's built so special.

    And yes, I do acknowledge the ridiculousness of appearing to accuse people of not "getting" something that I myself can't define. But it's not about finger pointing. It's about the feeling of trust engendered when listening to someone talk of something about which they care deeply. I get that in spades from David Braben, despite the fact that ED has apparently taken a different route than that outlined during the KS. From Sandro and the Community team, not so much. The sense of enthusiasm is there, but something's not quite the same.

    Hell, maybe it's just me. Maybe the project and the community it supports have grown so large and diverse that such a direct feeling of trust is now impossible, and I'm just a nostalgic old fart pining for simpler times. All I know is that when I watch the livestreams they feel less like a creator describing their vision and more like a PR team justifying its questionable decisions. Perhaps expecting more at this point is futile, and even David Braben himself would sound less like a visionary and more like a marketeer. But it would be nice if he at least tried.

    Still, I await Sandro's KWS announcement with interest.

  3. #363
    Originally Posted by raymondo the great View Post (Source)
    This is just flat out wrong
    The devs have literally confirmed there is not bounty "roll up" that they want us to go find the NPC again and kill it again for the next bounty
    But we'll keep on saying this and people will keep on coming to try and defend the devs with they "you are getting all the money" dross. At some point we'll be able to call out people making stuff up like this for what they are doing....

    Plus we've only got 300+ posts on this thread with half of them literally saying "IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY"
    Seems like it might be a waste to say it again to someone who obviously isn't paying attention....
    Incorrect. They are talking about players.
    NPC are not persistent beyond your current little bubble so there is no way.
    Even if you see the same NPC name it is a fresh virgin spawn.

  4. #364
    Originally Posted by raymondo the great View Post (Source)
    This is just flat out wrong
    The devs have literally confirmed there is not bounty "roll up" that they want us to go find the NPC again and kill it again for the next bounty
    But we'll keep on saying this and people will keep on coming to try and defend the devs with they "you are getting all the money" dross. At some point we'll be able to call out people making stuff up like this for what they are doing....

    Plus we've only got 300+ posts on this thread with half of them literally saying "IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY"
    Seems like it might be a waste to say it again to someone who obviously isn't paying attention....
    Originally Posted by Ralph Vargr View Post (Source)
    It's the faction rep we're missing out on, Monsieur 21.
    On that point we agree. The money item or the multiple kills on the same NPC was the thing I was rebutting.

  5. #365
    the way i understand the new crime and punishment system is that bounties and fines are now tied to a ship rather than a player. this means that a commander can now have different bounties / fines depending on what ship they are flying in.

    The KWS, under its current implementation, returns the complete bounty list of the pilot. Not the ship. If the current iteration was retained it would give bounty hunters the ability (and unfair advantage) to get the full bounty list of a player completely breaking the new C&P mechanic. Therefore it is not compatible with the new implementation.

    as it stand now the KWS needs to be modified to accommodate the drastic change of attaching bounties / fines to ships rather than players. that's a pretty obvious change that needed to be made.

    where i can see this change being fun is seeing a player on a top 5 with a super high bounty, then finding them in a small dinky ship with a 200 cr bounty, and having to tail them to get the bigger prize.

  6. #366
    Originally Posted by Jack Schitt View Post (Source)
    I must admit I'd be more engaged -- on this subject and others -- if David Braben was more visible in the process.

    [snip]

    Sandro et al seem like decent people, competent enough and certainly passionate about doing the best they can (or at least appearing to do the best they can). But it's not clear to me that they "get" that undefinable something that makes ED and the legacy on which it's built so special.
    100% nailed it.

  7. #367
    I'm with OP. The KWS is what makes bounty hunting with doing. It's the only reason I join in bounty hunting community goals.

  8. #368
    What is the word on this? Still happening?

  9. #369
    Originally Posted by Vingtetun View Post (Source)
    Incorrect. They are talking about players.
    NPC are not persistent beyond your current little bubble so there is no way.
    Even if you see the same NPC name it is a fresh virgin spawn.
    except they were responding to the OP's points about KWSing NPCs, which is why about 10 pages back (at a guess) we were all talking about how it made no sens for the reason you gave (lack of NPC persistance)
    So either:
    A - the devs did not address the point while pretending they did
    B - the devs were not smart enough to understand the point
    Neither is a particularly good look...however I eagerly await the update we are going to get from them today now they've actually apparently had time to sit down and think about it...

  10. #370
    Originally Posted by Vingtetun View Post (Source)
    Incorrect. They are talking about players.
    NPC are not persistent beyond your current little bubble so there is no way.
    Even if you see the same NPC name it is a fresh virgin spawn.
    Well quite ... so talking about finding and killing the same ship again and again to claim its bounties in response to what is essentially a PVE issue (aside from Isinona PVP'ers don't, on the whole, use the KWS) was silly and confusing (but hey, Sandro was answering a hundred questions in as many minutes so a bit of fluster was perhaps understandable). Anyway, hopefully a better explanation will be forthcoming today.

  11. #371
    Originally Posted by Jack Schitt View Post (Source)
    I must admit I'd be more engaged -- on this subject and others -- if David Braben was more visible in the process. His was the voice I always trusted the most when it came to the direction the Elite franchise took, both during the Kickstarter and first year of development and whenever he was called upon to wax nostalgic about the original games in magazine articles, lectures or documentaries. Elite and Frontier were very different beasts yet managed to capture the same combination of wanderlust and technical bleeding edgery of their respective days. Not to diminish Ian Bell's invaluable contributions to the original, but the passion for the legacy... that was 100% Braben.
    My favourite ever dev video was on the 2.1 release day when Braben spent somthing like an hour talking "science and Elite", how when people say "why do you try and make space in Elite as close to the Milky Way as you can" his answer was "why not?" His vision for the game was clear, futuristic space game but in a "real world" setting (not hard sci fi by anymeans but at least explainable sci-fi), his enthusiasm was infectious a bright future seemed to beckon, I remember all the talk then was if 2.4 (which people were expecting maybe a few months late in early 2017) would have aliens or new planet types, and Brabens science like focus had many thinking it would be new planets to land on and explore, somthing I think pretty much everyone wanted...

    Sadly a few months later Sandro talked on a stream about instant ship transport...all hell broke lose and pretty much ever since it's seemed his competing vision for a futuristic space fantasy game has been the constant direction of travel for Elite. I've seen a lot less of Braben too since then, popping up here and there seemingly to try and push things a tad back in his direction, but to me it seems this split vision is actively harming game development. Almost all the controversial stuff seems to be down to Sandros decisions and desire for a more "gamey" experiance.

    Now I'm not saying there aren't those who prefer that direction, or reasons why its good from a business point of view. But in all honesty the seemingly constant dumbing down - of which the KWS is the latest example - is not somthing I personally am enjoying, and nor are many others (though I do not claim to speak for them I have seen many such comments even though I know it's by a fraction of the player base)

    I miss the days when Brabens hands were more visibly on the tiller, his enthusiasm for space and science is similar to my own and the root of my interest in this game in the first place (my interest not his) Sandro loves gaming and having fun I have no doubt, but it seems to me if both started making a game
    independently
    from scratch Braben would make the Elite we all know and love...while Sandro would be doing somthing a lot closer to NMS (I don't mean that as an insult, he'd do a better job I'm sure than it's devs did)

    And ultimately I think a lot of the current problems with the direction of the game (from my point of view) comes from the fact Sandro just simply doesn't understand that section of the community, again this was ably demonstrated by his failure to grasp the KWS issues in the stream.....

    I am hoping he has now understood how this KWS change is bad from a gameplay PoV as well as an immersion one etc, but even if he has I expect this is a battle that we'll continue to have over many other changes in the future...

  12. #372
    Originally Posted by rekurzion View Post (Source)
    the way i understand the new crime and punishment system is that bounties and fines are now tied to a ship rather than a player. this means that a commander can now have different bounties / fines depending on what ship they are flying in.

    The KWS, under its current implementation, returns the complete bounty list of the pilot. Not the ship. If the current iteration was retained it would give bounty hunters the ability (and unfair advantage) to get the full bounty list of a player completely breaking the new C&P mechanic. Therefore it is not compatible with the new implementation.

    as it stand now the KWS needs to be modified to accommodate the drastic change of attaching bounties / fines to ships rather than players. that's a pretty obvious change that needed to be made.

    where i can see this change being fun is seeing a player on a top 5 with a super high bounty, then finding them in a small dinky ship with a 200 cr bounty, and having to tail them to get the bigger prize.

    Where was/is the impact assessment analysis? If they'd done that, like most professional developers do, they'd have seen right off, the KWS was going to be impacted.

    Now, the KWS, impacts players take-home pay and system faction, so messing with it, would be a last resort and require even further analysis.

    None of this seems to have been done. It appears as is the FDev way, go full on developing a new system, with no regard for the old, and then when the eureka moment finally appears, say 'ah.. not compatible'.

    It's an out right joke! And all this for 1/3rd of the play field?? The current Wanted system is buggy and has been for over a year. This entire change is for PvP centric players, yet impacts the entirety of the player base!!

    Credibility factor: 0

  13. #373
    Originally Posted by raymondo the great View Post (Source)
    My favourite ever dev video was on the 2.1 release day when Braben spent somthing like an hour talking "science and Elite", how when people say "why do you try and make space in Elite as close to the Milky Way as you can" his answer was "why not?" His vision for the game was clear, futuristic space game but in a "real world" setting (not hard sci fi by anymeans but at least explainable sci-fi), his enthusiasm was infectious a bright future seemed to beckon, I remember all the talk then was if 2.4 (which people were expecting maybe a few months late in early 2017) would have aliens or new planet types, and Brabens science like focus had many thinking it would be new planets to land on and explore, somthing I think pretty much everyone wanted...

    Sadly a few months later Sandro talked on a stream about instant ship transport...all hell broke lose and pretty much ever since it's seemed his competing vision for a futuristic space fantasy game has been the constant direction of travel for Elite. I've seen a lot less of Braben too since then, popping up here and there seemingly to try and push things a tad back in his direction, but to me it seems this split vision is actively harming game development. Almost all the controversial stuff seems to be down to Sandros decisions and desire for a more "gamey" experiance.

    Now I'm not saying there aren't those who prefer that direction, or reasons why its good from a business point of view. But in all honesty the seemingly constant dumbing down - of which the KWS is the latest example - is not somthing I personally am enjoying, and nor are many others (though I do not claim to speak for them I have seen many such comments even though I know it's by a fraction of the player base)

    I miss the days when Brabens hands were more visibly on the tiller, his enthusiasm for space and science is similar to my own and the root of my interest in this game in the first place (my interest not his) Sandro loves gaming and having fun I have no doubt, but it seems to me if both started making a game
    independently
    from scratch Braben would make the Elite we all know and love...while Sandro would be doing somthing a lot closer to NMS (I don't mean that as an insult, he'd do a better job I'm sure than it's devs did)

    And ultimately I think a lot of the current problems with the direction of the game (from my point of view) comes from the fact Sandro just simply doesn't understand that section of the community, again this was ably demonstrated by his failure to grasp the KWS issues in the stream.....

    I am hoping he has now understood how this KWS change is bad from a gameplay PoV as well as an immersion one etc, but even if he has I expect this is a battle that we'll continue to have over many other changes in the future...
    It seems to me, no-one at FDev have a clue about MMOs and how to develop them. That could be forgiven if who ever is designing this thing, was doing a good job on the game features. Sadly...

  14. #374
    Originally Posted by Jack Schitt View Post (Source)
    I must admit I'd be more engaged -- on this subject and others -- if David Braben was more visible in the process. His was the voice I always trusted the most when it came to the direction the Elite franchise took, both during the Kickstarter and first year of development and whenever he was called upon to wax nostalgic about the original games in magazine articles, lectures or documentaries. Elite and Frontier were very different beasts yet managed to capture the same combination of wanderlust and technical bleeding edgery of their respective days. Not to diminish Ian Bell's invaluable contributions to the original, but the passion for the legacy... that was 100% Braben.

    And I guess by extension I should trust in the people he chose to guide the development of ED, but to me there's something missing. Sandro et al seem like decent people, competent enough and certainly passionate about doing the best they can (or at least appearing to do the best they can). But it's not clear to me that they "get" that undefinable something that makes ED and the legacy on which it's built so special.

    And yes, I do acknowledge the ridiculousness of appearing to accuse people of not "getting" something that I myself can't define. But it's not about finger pointing. It's about the feeling of trust engendered when listening to someone talk of something about which they care deeply. I get that in spades from David Braben, despite the fact that ED has apparently taken a different route than that outlined during the KS. From Sandro and the Community team, not so much. The sense of enthusiasm is there, but something's not quite the same.

    Hell, maybe it's just me. Maybe the project and the community it supports have grown so large and diverse that such a direct feeling of trust is now impossible, and I'm just a nostalgic old fart pining for simpler times. All I know is that when I watch the livestreams they feel less like a creator describing their vision and more like a PR team justifying its questionable decisions. Perhaps expecting more at this point is futile, and even David Braben himself would sound less like a visionary and more like a marketeer. But it would be nice if he at least tried.

    Still, I await Sandro's KWS announcement with interest.
    As another old fart, whose played Elite since the BBC days, you have summed up my feelings entirely! Spot on Commander, spot on!

  15. #375
    Sandro's post is up!

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...anner-Feedback

    Haven't even had time to read it yet but I just wanted to let everyone know.

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