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Thread: Get the hell out of the line of fire if you don't want to get hit!

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Bob Lighthouse View Post (Source)
    It is very odd to me that people feel the need to poison the well of good advice.
    It's not the advice itself that people have a problem with. Very often it can be useful. The problem is the condescending attitude the advice is given with, as well as the complete denial and dismissal that there possibly COULD be a problem with a given mechanic. This is why the advice is considered useless. It is given with the sole purpose of undermining any attempt to improve game mechanics by (falsely) implying that the problem rests exclusively with the person criticizing the mechanic.

    If you got mugged and went to the town hall to request that they increase the lighting and policing in the area you got mugged in, only to be told "Well you shouldn't be out in that part of the neighborhood at night alone idiot, git gud" you would rightfully be outraged. While what they said is not technically false; being outside at night in a bad mart of a neighborhood does greatly increase your chance of being victimized, it doesn't address the fact that having poorly lit violent areas in a neighborhood is a bad thing.

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Darty View Post (Source)
    It's not the advice itself that people have a problem with. Very often it can be useful. The problem is the condescending attitude the advice is given with, as well as the complete denial and dismissal that there possibly COULD be a problem with a given mechanic. This is why the advice is considered useless. It is given with the sole purpose of undermining any attempt to improve game mechanics by (falsely) implying that the problem rests exclusively with the person criticizing the mechanic.

    If you got mugged and went to the town hall to request that they increase the lighting and policing in the area you got mugged in, only to be told "Well you shouldn't be out in that part of the neighborhood at night alone idiot, git gud" you would rightfully be outraged. While what they said is not technically false; being outside at night in a bad mart of a neighborhood does greatly increase your chance of being victimized, it doesn't address the fact that having poorly lit violent areas in a neighborhood is a bad thing.


    I stand by my observation.

  3. #33
    There is an art to using turrets. I only use them on my Conda and my Cutter, but they do just fine, even in High RES sites as long as I watch my surroundings for security ships and otherwise clean ships who's shields are down. I very seldom have friendly fire bounty problems but when I do get out of the RES fast before it turns into a murder.

  4. #34
    I really wish the smart rounds experimental were added as a hidden standard to all weapons and we override them to pirate etc. Very few people will use it otherwise as it just lowers their potential damage (rightly or wrongly)

    This would take away one of the tools trolls might use on new players to make them get bounties. It would also mean the thing we all eventually do when BHing is no longer a major pain , which is accidentally firing before the ship scans as we know it’s a pirate from the ship name.

    New players to this game are going to be overwhelmed and the last thing we need is them getting bounties forced on them while they are still learning

  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Darty View Post (Source)
    They will stop firing once they are no longer in the current firing group, so switching to a firing group without a turret stops it from firing.
    Well, I suppose they could add another mode which allows for automatic aim but only fire at the pull of the trigger. A semi automatic mode if you will that allows the player the opportunity to not fire on ships between them and their target.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Spacecat View Post (Source)
    Oh. That's stupid. You'd think pressing the fire button again would stop them.
    Simply double tapping the retract hardpoints button works as well.

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by wesmacdon View Post (Source)
    You're opening a can of worms dude. You're just going to get the usual 'get gud' brigade offering their typically useless advice. My advice - don't engage in that particular debate. I can assure you, your point is valid. Friendly fire is too harshly penalised and not well managed in-game. Ignore the dudes who are inevitably going to try to convince you there's no fault in the design because it's irrelevant if you don't make mistakes. Clearly that argument is illogical nonsense. Good luck.....
    As always, if you can come up with a mechanic that makes sense, helps everyone and (most important) isn't exploitable I'll be the first to agree with you. Until then: Git gud.

  8. #38
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    Can't agree with this.

    Turrets are fine as long as you're smart enough to assign 'em to a fire-group in a way that allows you to switch 'em off easily.

    If you're flying a big, lumbering, ship then enabling and disabling turrets should become as instinctive as letting go of the trigger when you see a yellow blob moving toward the middle of the scanner.
    Wow, Stealthie. You Git Gud'd me. Lol
    I tend to be lazy and I only use 1 firegroup as much as possible in combat. Guns on 1, missiles on 2. I don't flip groups unless I need to use an SCB.

    I god gudder though, I just don't use turrets. Lol
    Instead I've outfitted my Anaconda so it's more agile, at the cost of armour strength.
    Now I can keep my guns on almost anything, and what I can't, I use missiles or my SLF on.

    CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Thrudd View Post (Source)
    You think thats bad, I got a murder bounty when a police ship rammed into the back of me as I was leaving a station. Wasnt going fast (this was even before the speedi restrictions were put in anyway), just cruising slowly out of mass lock range in my anaconda when I see a green triangle coming up behind me, there was loud engine noise, a bit of a bump, a bang and I got hit with a murder bounty.
    No one likes a cop killer!

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Spandexxx View Post (Source)
    Having said that, my current build has turreted long range pulses on the small hardpoints just for tagging targets and maintaining fire on small targets. They never seem to gain me a bounty. Perhaps it's a function of the damage done?
    Damage done does matter, but I suspect the number of independent hits also matters - a beam laser per hit (per frame!) does very little damage, but after 10 or so hits you'll definitely have worn through their patience.

    Most of the cases I've seen where the build has been revealed have involved a beam laser, but that could just be sampling bias.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Stealthie View Post (Source)
    You hit somebody with stray fire and then other ships finished them off.
    You contributed to their destruction and, as a result, you share responsibility for the murder.
    Which, incidentally, is by popular demand of the players way back in the beginning, who were finding that a "only the last hit is responsible for the death" rule meant that they weren't getting many bounties in a RES because the police were kill-stealing them all. (No HazRES back then, of course)

    When 99.9% of the time the rule works in the players' favour, it shouldn't be complained about the few times it doesn't.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by CMDR_Cosmicspacehead View Post (Source)
    Wow, Stealthie. You Git Gud'd me. Lol
    I tend to be lazy and I only use 1 firegroup as much as possible in combat. Guns on 1, missiles on 2. I don't flip groups unless I need to use an SCB.

    I god gudder though, I just don't use turrets. Lol
    Instead I've outfitted my Anaconda so it's more agile, at the cost of armour strength.
    Now I can keep my guns on almost anything, and what I can't, I use missiles or my SLF on.

    CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
    I'm lazy too.
    That's why I like using turrets on my "battleships".

    I guess it depends on what you use the ship for as well.

    My Cutter is a trade-ship, for example, and that's all turreted-up.
    That works because hardpoints only get deployed after I've been interdicted so I'm alone with my attacker(s) for the next couple of minutes and I don't have to worry about FF.
    Similar thing with my Anacondas.

    My Corvette is my RES/CNB farmer and that does have turrets but the "primary weapons" are a pair of C4 beams so I just melt most NPCs using the beams, alone, and only fire-up the turrets for any close-encounters with something like an Anaconda or Corvette.

    I guess the only "edge case" is my T10, which is intended to be a combat ship but it's pretty sluggish and it doesn't have any insta-kill weapons so it relies more on turrets.
    Even though it has similar DPS to my Corvette, I'm not as comfortable using it at RES/CNB's because the Corvette is a bit of a "scalpel" whereas the T10 is more like a "claymore".

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by wesmacdon View Post (Source)
    You guys are like clockwork. So utterly predictable. Imagine you guys were left in charge of stuff in real life?

    Should we develop ABS to decrease car accidents? Nah just get better at driving.
    Right, cos once you've got a car with ABS you can just drive like a complete tool and rely completely on the ABS to prevent you crashing.


    Should we develop cancer treatments?
    Nah just get better at not having cancer.
    You think this is a valid comparison?

    Hitting a friendly ship which is visible on your scanner and can be avoided via fire-control is exactly like a random affliction which is largely impossible for the sufferer to control?

  14. This is the last staff post in this thread. #44
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous Frontier Employee
    Hello Commanders!

    for clarity:

    Turrets should never attack ships unless they are either:

    * Legal targets

    * Have already committed assault against you.

    Stray shots against uninteded clean targets should not trigger hostility or crimes.

    If you find this is not working, please submit bugs, with as much detail as possible (which weapons were turreted, the class and status of the shipr triggering the crime etc.)

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commanders!

    for clarity:

    Turrets should never attack ships unless they are either:

    * Legal targets

    * Have already committed assault against you.

    Stray shots against uninteded clean targets should not trigger hostility or crimes.

    If you find this is not working, please submit bugs, with as much detail as possible (which weapons were turreted, the class and status of the shipr triggering the crime etc.)
    Good to hear that from the horse's mouth.

    The OP seems to be suggesting that he actually got hit by fire from another ship, which led to his turrets retaliating against (presumably) the ship he took fire from.

    When we accidentally shoot another ship there's some tolerance applied, where an NPC will say "Hey! Cut that out" but not actually become hostile and we don't get a bounty.
    Does the same thing apply in reverse?

    If we're hit by an NPC's fire, is there a similar tolerance before our scanners class that NPC as hostile and (presumably) our turrets retaliate?

    Thinking about it, I'm almost certain I've strayed into the fire of police ships once in a while and I don't I've ever seen a cop-ship turn hostile as a result.

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