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Thread: Privateer’s Alliance Charity Event Targeted for Griefing

  1. #46
    ph1Lt0r responses are gracious and I’m for one am pleased that they made prior preparation. He is also entirely correct that this issue should not spark a witch-hunt. Rather it should generate a serious conversation about what to do about griefing in the form of UA bombing, especially with respect to charity and similar events.

    Again, I have no relationship with Privateers, and this thread is about griefing using UA bombing.

    I do like Han Zulu’s suggestion that Thargoid Sensors become purchasable at Stations in order to reduce their impact. I can imagine some complications, still, when poorer individuals or groups are facing those with deep enough pocket to buyout a stations protections. But I’m speaking out loud and would like to hear more. So too Funny’s idea about shutting down blackmarkets around charity and like events.

    Mintor is right and ph1lt0r confirms that none of the targeted stations are essential to the event. Nonetheless, the griefers chose the Privateers because they are holding a charity event with the backing of Frontier. Details may differ, and this time around the the griefer’s leadership is more sensitive to the public relations aspects. But those variances are on the margins, and constitute a difference of degree not of kind. It is still intentional, malicious, griefing of those holding a charity event.

  2. #47
    Originally Posted by Col. O'Neill View Post (Source)
    Don't support Privateer's Alliance!
    I'm sure all the cmdr's in the Elite community can make their own minds up about who they want to support and who they don't, they don't need you to dictate it to them.
    Originally Posted by Col. O'Neill View Post (Source)
    They're full of toxic people providing instability in the community.
    Of course they are, toxic people always hold charity events don't they.
    Originally Posted by Col. O'Neill View Post (Source)
    Just gank them like there is no tomorrow.
    Bring it on.

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by RexKraemer View Post (Source)
    There is no scientific study which correlates unambiguously first person shooters with real life aggression. So it is propably wrong to correlate in game "griefing" with real life morality.
    Rex, you and some others are quite exercised about the ethics of gaming that underlies the wider community’s critique of griefing. There is no need to be, although there is some information that may be of help to you.

    First, and to pick up on a point Funny made, Elite is just a game when you are in Solo and the only consequences are for yourself. In an open, virtual world such as Elite in Private or Open, that is not the case. Nor is it the case when griefers use Solo as a safe space to maliciously impact others in Open or Private without consequences.

    Moreover, when you are in Private or Open your ability to impact others means you become responsible for those actions. You may like to brush this concern aside by pretending an open world is the same as a console game, but it is not. As the experience with Dove Enigma demonstrated.

    Second, there is a wealth of academic and science journalism on ethics, psychology and griefing. You might find this thread on the main forum interesting.

    Then read the American Psychological Association’s report on violent online games. Lots of literature to explore in the references.

    One kind of study you might want to look at in particular are those on internet trolling. Buckels et. al “Trolls just want to have fun” (2014) differentially correlates trolling (which includes griefing) with personality disorders like sadism, Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathology (the dark tetrad).

    You might also benefit from the work of Miguel Sicart. His two books — Ethics of Computer Games (2009, MIT), and Beyond Choices (2013, MIT) — speak to ethical issues when designing and playing online games of all sorts.

    If you want a deep dive into the literature, check out the journal Gaming Studies.

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Delilah View Post (Source)
    What solutions around this issue come to your minds?
    Make it an Invitational event, fire up a private group, stick a couple people around the station with manifest scanners and promptly eject anyone carrying Thargoid Probes. Then sit back and reap the salt here.

  5. #50
    Haters gonna hate, unfortunately you can't even trademark that these days.

  6. #51
    Close the black market.

    Use the BGS to push a faction into power that shuts down access to the Black Market and UA bombing ceases to be a problem.

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by RexKraemer View Post (Source)
    I just have to +Rep because I know that character, that movie, and what that Danger Seeker did.

    And I laughed.

  8. #53
    Originally Posted by Funny View Post (Source)
    Turning elite dangerous full PvE outside of a dedicated mode might actually be a good idea. That way it can be the mmo it seems to want to be?
    That would be decidedly not Dangerous.

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Delilah View Post (Source)
    The Privateers Alliance is hosting a charity event for heart health, raising funds for heart related charities in the US, UK, and Europe. You can read more about this event at their website.

    Unfortunately, the event is being targeted by griefers for UA bombing.

    We recently had a similar effort to grief the Enigma Expedition for Dove Enigma. You may recall that Dove is a cancer patient, friends organized an expedition to Colonia with him, and Frontier kindly supplied a mega-ship for the purpose. On its way to Colonia, the ship was intentionally UA bombed to disrupt the expedition for the laughs and community outrage. Dove was not a happy camper, a broad swath of the community was incensed, and many pilots responded by taking meta-alloys to the stricken mega-ship to help repair and restore its mission.

    Leaders amongst these griefers claim this is “emergent game play” that creates fun for others as well as protests Frontier’s failure to develop the BGS. These are transparent rationalizations. If pilots shared a good experience in rescuing the Enigma Expedition and working to help Dove, that is not because of griefing. It is because they chose to do the right thing. This in no way excuses the malicious actions of the UA bombers. Nor does it excuse the malicious motives behind targeting the Privateers Alliance charity event.

    UA bombing has become one of the safe spaces for griefers in Elite. I don’t believe this was Frontier’s intent, and it was certainly not their intent to see good-faith charity events disrupted in this manner.

    In the forthcoming crime and punishment mechanic, Frontier has started to close the noose around griefers using notoriety, hot modules and ships, changed bounty and rebuy calculations, etc. We can hope that these will help prevent seal-clubbing. If not, the community will surely demand changes.

    Unfortunately, UA bombing is not addressed by C&P and there is no defense against it. One can only respond after the fact and at a substantial investment of time and credits. Griefers like those who targeted Dove Enigma and now the Privateer’s are therefore free to disrupt -- without consequence — honorific, memorial, and charity events like the Enigma Expedition and now Privateer’s Alliance.

    So what ought to be done? Three ideas come to my mind.

    One solution is to close down this mechanic altogether by stopping the sale of meta-alloys in black-markets.

    Another is to create in-game technology transfers that easily and permanently reverse and protect against UA bombing. Something like an Aegis community event to create the technology, which will then go on sale at specific stations for distribution to whatever stations are in need. One ton of the tech being all that is necessary, excess deliveries to a station become available on the market for delivery elsewhere. Delivering a Cutter full of this tech would be a pro-social mechanic many could get behind.

    Still another is to begin fleshing out the Karma mechanic for serial griefers, and include UA bombing in the metrics. If that is possible, it a longer term goal.

    What solutions around this issue come to your minds?

    UA bombing is a perfectly legitimate game mechanic regardless of your perception. Your post would come across in a much better way if you simply asked for support/help to counter it.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by Delilah View Post (Source)
    Elite is just a game when you are in Solo and the only consequences are for yourself.
    This is not true. When playing the BGS, you can do that in whatever mode you like. UA bombing is a BGS activity.

  11. #56
    If Privateer's Alliance needs a hand with Meta-Alloys, just holler and point the way, I'll set my Type-7 to work.

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by Col. O'Neill View Post (Source)
    Don't support Privateer's Alliance!
    They're full of toxic people providing instability in the community.
    Just gank them like there is no tomorrow.
    Please come gank us. We welcome it.

    Make sure you put your big boi panties on.

  13. #58
    If you don't like your in-game charity events getting "griefed", then perhaps you should not hold in-game charity events.

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by HairballHacker View Post (Source)
    If you don't like your in-game charity events getting "griefed", then perhaps you should not hold in-game charity events.
    We dont care lol.

    We dont even consider it griefing.

    Its in game mechanics. We dont whine and cry like other people when we get attacked. We may point out flaws within the game.

    But we welcome all types of gameplay.

  15. #60
    What I don't understand is why black markets even accept these things anymore in the first place. They destroy stock and infrastructure, and that's bad for business.

    It's somewhat akin to - 'Oh you've got a hundred ticking time bombs for sale, no problem, I'll take them' and then later asking the warehouse manager 'Hey Joe, we just bought a hundred ticking time bombs, take them out the back and put them next to all those explosives we bought the other day OK ?'

    If I were running a contraband dealership on a station I wouldn't want anything to do with them unless -
    A) I had a way to store them safely OR
    B) Already had a customer lined up so I can shift them out straight away.

    That said I understand it from a gameplay perspective, having a way to disrupt station services (for whatever reason) with an effective counter measure is one way to have groups working against each other to achieve a goal, and is in my mind a valid mechanic, even if the logic behind it seems (to me) to be a little wonky.

    On topic - Disrupting charity events trying to do some real world good for any reason just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth (figuratively speaking). I can't really explain it any better than that, It's just how I personally feel about it.