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Thread: The Guardian Research Division

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by relayer View Post (Source)
    Hail Eris!
    Fnord!

  2. #77
    Okay, I think I'm now finally done with the Alpha site.

    The other previous versions could also be valid, but I think this time, after more scrutiny and ZOOMING in and looking at the closer details, I think Version 5 is the most accurate.

    There is a lot of leeway with the stars, unfortunatley. Some F's can be incredibly luminescent (this would have to be a factor), but so can A and B-Class stars. By the same token, the Goldilocks zone can also be very wide-ranging, all depending on the age of the star, mass, etc.

    There are many variables - because of this, as always, take the latest version, as with all previous versions, with a pinch of salt - it does give us something to wonder, so with that, I'm happy.



    Here is how I think it is worked out:


  3. #78
    That photo of the alpha site is amazingly detailed. I'm actually more curious about the lines in the sand. I think if there is a top down view meaning of the ruins, it's probably in them.

    Because structurally they make no sense. The impressions are smaller than human size, so then what were they. Either way we can't determine more until someone takes a pen and traces to make them clear. That number 4 looks like a triangle broken down into two right triangles. Right next to number 4 there is traces of the linked boxes that you are above the 15. Since mathematics and geometry is universal we might be able to surmise something through them.

  4. #79
    Originally Posted by Yure View Post (Source)
    That photo of the alpha site is amazingly detailed. I'm actually more curious about the lines in the sand. I think if there is a top down view meaning of the ruins, it's probably in them.

    Because structurally they make no sense. The impressions are smaller than human size, so then what were they. Either way we can't determine more until someone takes a pen and traces to make them clear. That number 4 looks like a triangle broken down into two right triangles. Right next to number 4 there is traces of the linked boxes that you are above the 15. Since mathematics and geometry is universal we might be able to surmise something through them.
    Yep, there definitley could be more than meets the eye with the surface-line details.

    I've come to the potential theory that it could be lines/swirls of a Gas Giant: (water giant, below)



    Jupiter:



    It was one of the reasons I suspected it could be a Gas Giant causing an "eclipse" that I had mentioned previously - the lines and quarter-swirls of the Alpha ruin look like an artist is trying to recreate them, with just lines in the sand, as it were, through some form of symmetry (which the Guardians loved to incorporate into their art).

    However, it may not be that - it's just my take on it there may well be some other meaning behind it I haven't thought of etc.

    If I'm anywhere near right, then there's a lot of factors to consider: how far away is the gas giant from the star? what type/class of gas giant is it to produce "swirls" of some kind? Both of those would be important to identify what it could be.

    I considered the lines and swirls could be another star or brown dwarf, but I don't think it would match that of a gas giant (unless the half/quarter swirls are solar flares...)

    If the above is true, then it may well be that their system has two stars - but again, there was never any mention of two stars at all in the lore (there was only ever mention of "a dimming of the star") - whereas there was mention in the Guardians language to reference the "waxing and waning" of a moon - but not nescecarily a moon of their world, but a nearby world (this is the reason I had for having the earth-like world in my latest Version 5 of their home system orbit around the 3rd gas giant - since there was never any mention that they had a moon, yet knew of waxing and waning - again, could be horribly wrong).

  5. #80
    If we find a Guardian shipyard or a crashed Guardian ship, we should be able to have Ram Tah sift through the data stores to find the homeworld!

  6. #81
    Originally Posted by Storm Valkyrie View Post (Source)
    If we find a Guardian shipyard or a crashed Guardian ship, we should be able to have Ram Tah sift through the data stores to find the homeworld!
    Now that would be simply awesome

    There has to be wreckage somewhere, even after million(s) of years.

  7. #82
    Originally Posted by CMDR Dreamstate View Post (Source)
    Now that would be simply awesome

    There has to be wreckage somewhere, even after million(s) of years.
    We know their data mediums were built to last. It would just be a case of finding a wreck and FDev taking a hint.

    Where did fighting take place? Were the shrines targeted?

    Better yet, where were the colonies? You don't fly 10,000ly+ to a remote nebula just to bury your dead...

    We see the extent of their possible final exodus via the Shrines. We have also yet to see structures outside the main Guardian bubble. So, the outermost Shrines were possibly built after the Construct rebellion started. There have to be ELWs with massive craters on them somewhere out there.

    If we find a battle site, there must be some wreckage buried in a moon or something...

  8. #83
    Originally Posted by Storm Valkyrie View Post (Source)
    We know their data mediums were built to last. It would just be a case of finding a wreck and FDev taking a hint.

    Where did fighting take place? Were the shrines targeted?

    Better yet, where were the colonies? You don't fly 10,000ly+ to a remote nebula just to bury your dead...

    We see the extent of their possible final exodus via the Shrines. We have also yet to see structures outside the main Guardian bubble. So, the outermost Shrines were possibly built after the Construct rebellion started. There have to be ELWs with massive craters on them somewhere out there.

    If we find a battle site, there must be some wreckage buried in a moon or something...
    I agree, the lack of "stuff" around is a bit odd. But I think it's possible to explain it away pretty well without going too tinfoil.

    In approx 2 million years, we don't know who or what might have been clearing up...MAybe the constructs spent 50,000 years hoovering up the majority of Guardian junk to make more Construct bodies? Maybe the Thargoids went and systematically destroyed everything Guardian they found after the Constructs left/went dormant/etc.

    It's possible that the ruins we're finding are the ones that escaped the clearup, weren't noticed, or weren't important enough to remove? They are very small and seemedly insignificant. Maybe they were too low-tech to be discovered - that would also tie in with Cmdr Dreamstate's ideas about the actual layout of the ruins being part of the message they were intended to project.

    I'd also guess there have been many Guardian things found and concealed over the last thousand years, I can imagine a corporation coming across a wrecked ship and hiding the discovery - maybe that's what Sirius Corp found that made them rich, a Guardian warship smashed into Lucifer, they've been scavenging technology ever since... etc.

    in previous games there's a few odd things that suggest alien artefacts are being found here and there. There's also "Ancient Artefacts" as rare goods that might be Guardian items: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ancient_Artefact. There's also the SAP-8 containers you used to get as loot that contained a crystal 'of unknown origin' - we know Guardian tech is crystal based... etc. http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wik...Core_Container

    One theory that I read a while back, which I love and hope turns out accurate (apologies can't remember whos idea it was); The reason our technology isn't very advanced (comparatively) and the reason AI is strictly banned is that a long time ago when we were just expanding we found evidence of the Constructs. The people in power have always known that there are advanced AI out there somewhere, so our tech is deliberately limited to make sure it can't be taken over - Basically the whole BSG reboot thing with Galactica being made in a way that the Cylons can't easily hack - I love this idea for ED, like we're continually trying to innovate in ways that aren't computer-driven (hence so few automation system on our ships "hands-on approaches". It doesn't entirely make sense in-universe (there are clearly computers everywhere, etc.), but as a concept I love it, and maybe the powers have figured out the maximum level of complexity they can make a system at before it gets hacked. There's at lest one surface base with logs about them making smarter sentry drones and they go all Skynet. I think there's one of the Generation ships too where they pick up a strange signal and the ship kills the crew?

    I've always said Ram Tah and Melville seemed to already know about the Guardians - RT specifically provided "live" translations and feedback on an apparently "newly discovered" alien race. I suspect they were researchers on an earlier discovery. It's possible the Mars artefact is Guardian. I also think it's odd that the Guardians exapnded almost as far as the core (or futher even manybe) but didn't go just a few hundred lightyears "sideways", doesn't really make sense to me right now, so I'm aslo assuming that at least some Guardian artefacts were discovered in the Bubble and lost, hidden or not recognised for what they were, so maybe categorised as random (advanced) human tech.

  9. #84
    I want to point out, the Ancient Relics. If you take them into space and jettison, they start glowing when you get within proximity. Also you can see through them and there is a weird hexagonal shaped object glowing inside which is in cased in the triangle diamond like material.

    Tonight I am going to start looking at all the White stars around the Guardian bubble to check if Dreamstates system map might actually a map pointing to a site not in the Regor sector. Who knows it might be a different sort of significant system other then the home system.

  10. #85
    Originally Posted by Louis Calvert View Post (Source)
    I agree, the lack of "stuff" around is a bit odd. But I think it's possible to explain it away pretty well without going too tinfoil.

    In approx 2 million years, we don't know who or what might have been clearing up...MAybe the constructs spent 50,000 years hoovering up the majority of Guardian junk to make more Construct bodies? Maybe the Thargoids went and systematically destroyed everything Guardian they found after the Constructs left/went dormant/etc.

    It's possible that the ruins we're finding are the ones that escaped the clearup, weren't noticed, or weren't important enough to remove? They are very small and seemedly insignificant. Maybe they were too low-tech to be discovered - that would also tie in with Cmdr Dreamstate's ideas about the actual layout of the ruins being part of the message they were intended to project.

    I'd also guess there have been many Guardian things found and concealed over the last thousand years, I can imagine a corporation coming across a wrecked ship and hiding the discovery - maybe that's what Sirius Corp found that made them rich, a Guardian warship smashed into Lucifer, they've been scavenging technology ever since... etc.

    in previous games there's a few odd things that suggest alien artefacts are being found here and there. There's also "Ancient Artefacts" as rare goods that might be Guardian items: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ancient_Artefact. There's also the SAP-8 containers you used to get as loot that contained a crystal 'of unknown origin' - we know Guardian tech is crystal based... etc. http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wik...Core_Container

    One theory that I read a while back, which I love and hope turns out accurate (apologies can't remember whos idea it was); The reason our technology isn't very advanced (comparatively) and the reason AI is strictly banned is that a long time ago when we were just expanding we found evidence of the Constructs. The people in power have always known that there are advanced AI out there somewhere, so our tech is deliberately limited to make sure it can't be taken over - Basically the whole BSG reboot thing with Galactica being made in a way that the Cylons can't easily hack - I love this idea for ED, like we're continually trying to innovate in ways that aren't computer-driven (hence so few automation system on our ships "hands-on approaches". It doesn't entirely make sense in-universe (there are clearly computers everywhere, etc.), but as a concept I love it, and maybe the powers have figured out the maximum level of complexity they can make a system at before it gets hacked. There's at lest one surface base with logs about them making smarter sentry drones and they go all Skynet. I think there's one of the Generation ships too where they pick up a strange signal and the ship kills the crew?

    I've always said Ram Tah and Melville seemed to already know about the Guardians - RT specifically provided "live" translations and feedback on an apparently "newly discovered" alien race. I suspect they were researchers on an earlier discovery. It's possible the Mars artefact is Guardian. I also think it's odd that the Guardians exapnded almost as far as the core (or futher even manybe) but didn't go just a few hundred lightyears "sideways", doesn't really make sense to me right now, so I'm aslo assuming that at least some Guardian artefacts were discovered in the Bubble and lost, hidden or not recognised for what they were, so maybe categorised as random (advanced) human tech.
    Pretty sure we did develop AI. Have been for ages, ever since finding my first AI Relic.

    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/AI_Relics

    I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in one of the lore streams at some point too, though can't say 100% without going back and watching.


    I'm definitely of the view that something of the Guardians was known to some people.

    I honestly think we have all the info we need to account for it though, and that's that Regor is the closest WR star to Sol. It would be harder to explain why scientific missions, in the form of probes at least, weren't sent there over the last 1,000 years. That's not to say that stuff definitely wasn't found in the bubble or elsewhere, but it does give a solid explanation of how some would have known of the Guardians (and it also explains why the stuff outside of the Regor sector might not have been known about until recently).

    Wrt the Guardian bubbles throughout the galaxy vs the non-expansion into what became the Human bubble, this could be explained via Meta-Alloys. So far Barnacles have only been found in Nebulae, as have the other Guardian bubbles. This could just be due to them being the main places people have looked of course, but it could also be that the reason the Guardian ruins are out there in those nebulae is because there were Barnacles and Meta-Alloys there and the Guardians were using the Meta-Alloys.

  11. #86
    Originally Posted by Thatchinho View Post (Source)
    Pretty sure we did develop AI. Have been for ages, ever since finding my first AI Relic.

    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/AI_Relics

    I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in one of the lore streams at some point too, though can't say 100% without going back and watching.


    I'm definitely of the view that something of the Guardians was known to some people.

    I honestly think we have all the info we need to account for it though, and that's that Regor is the closest WR star to Sol. It would be harder to explain why scientific missions, in the form of probes at least, weren't sent there over the last 1,000 years. That's not to say that stuff definitely wasn't found in the bubble or elsewhere, but it does give a solid explanation of how some would have known of the Guardians (and it also explains why the stuff outside of the Regor sector might not have been known about until recently).

    Wrt the Guardian bubbles throughout the galaxy vs the non-expansion into what became the Human bubble, this could be explained via Meta-Alloys. So far Barnacles have only been found in Nebulae, as have the other Guardian bubbles. This could just be due to them being the main places people have looked of course, but it could also be that the reason the Guardian ruins are out there in those nebulae is because there were Barnacles and Meta-Alloys there and the Guardians were using the Meta-Alloys.
    Some good points about the Barnacles at those nebulas.

    I'm wondering if;

    a) the Guardians took them with them or somehow grew them
    b) the Guardians deliberatly sought out meta-alloys in nebulas because it meant they didn't have to haul thousands or millions of tonnes of cargo 10,000ly across space
    c) the Thargoids have visited those nebulas since the collapse of the Guardians and seeded them

    I believe some Guardian Structures have now been found in one or two of the nebulas by canonn members - so I'm thinking point a) is the more likely one - but b) and c) are just as good as any other option. Plus, Brain Trees are also at those nebulas with the Guardian Ruins, Structures, and Barnacles - and I have a really heavy suspicion the Brain Trees act as a bug repellent (either distort witchspace too much or it actually messes the thargoids up in some other way, like a psychic mycoid or something), since they don't show in spheres where the trees are present (at least, not to my knowledge).

    In obsidian ant's latest video, he said 3.1 isn't far away now - so here's hoping for more content - and nother awesome animated video! I love those!

  12. #87
    Dreamstate I hate to stamp out the idea that it could be a planetary map. However I believe some of the round shapes of the ruins used to be the base for domes. Like of the stone type not just created by the a shield. One of the earlier Ram Tah entries mentions something to this effect, where he says the shields failed and then the domes.

  13. #88
    Originally Posted by Thatchinho View Post (Source)
    Pretty sure we did develop AI. Have been for ages, ever since finding my first AI Relic.

    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/AI_Relics

    I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in one of the lore streams at some point too, though can't say 100% without going back and watching.


    I'm definitely of the view that something of the Guardians was known to some people.

    I honestly think we have all the info we need to account for it though, and that's that Regor is the closest WR star to Sol. It would be harder to explain why scientific missions, in the form of probes at least, weren't sent there over the last 1,000 years. That's not to say that stuff definitely wasn't found in the bubble or elsewhere, but it does give a solid explanation of how some would have known of the Guardians (and it also explains why the stuff outside of the Regor sector might not have been known about until recently).

    Wrt the Guardian bubbles throughout the galaxy vs the non-expansion into what became the Human bubble, this could be explained via Meta-Alloys. So far Barnacles have only been found in Nebulae, as have the other Guardian bubbles. This could just be due to them being the main places people have looked of course, but it could also be that the reason the Guardian ruins are out there in those nebulae is because there were Barnacles and Meta-Alloys there and the Guardians were using the Meta-Alloys.
    We did develop AI, but it goes bad and is banned as I said (banned as opposed to "never developed").

    Michael Brooks:

    “Part of the secret history of the universe is that AI (sentient machine) has been created on a few occasions and they’ve proven to be so dangerous that they’ve basically been banned. AI is one of the few things that the Alliance, independents, Empire and Federation will actively work together against to defeat if they have to. It’s not made public knowledge, because they don’t want people to be actively working on it, but things are kept behind the scenes to make sure such technology never develops. That doesn’t mean of course that it hasn’t. It is believed that maybe one or two have escaped into deep space, but who knows, maybe we should find out.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6z5...utu.be&t=8m31s

    "It's not AI that's banned, but machine sentience. You can still have smart computers, but they're not allowed to be self-aware." "Self awareness is a different construct to intelligence. You can have a system making intelligent decisions without being self-aware, although finding a definition of self-awareness or intelligence that everyone agrees with is probably a bigger challenge" "Mimicking humans isn't a greatest test of intelligence in my opinion. Machine intelligence would be of a different order to human thinking."

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Universe/page3

  14. #89
    Originally Posted by Yure View Post (Source)
    Dreamstate I hate to stamp out the idea that it could be a planetary map. However I believe some of the round shapes of the ruins used to be the base for domes. Like of the stone type not just created by the a shield. One of the earlier Ram Tah entries mentions something to this effect, where he says the shields failed and then the domes.
    That certainly is a possibility

    Personally, I don't think the Ruins were created for habitation, but built as temples or shrines to inter the dead (which is somewhat supported by the new lore), though we'd need more evidence to say so conclusively. Likewise, I don't think the Structures were ever manned by living personnel, they are just the surviving Monolithic Network hubs left over from before and after the Thargoid War (which Galnet somewhat confirmed).

    I'm hoping, come Atmospheric Landings (hopefully the paid-for content coming out this year, or is so rumoured), that we'll find worlds with their destroyed domed cities - now what a sight that would be!!

  15. #90
    Originally Posted by Louis Calvert View Post (Source)
    We did develop AI, but it goes bad and is banned as I said (banned as opposed to "never developed").

    Michael Brooks:

    “Part of the secret history of the universe is that AI (sentient machine) has been created on a few occasions and they’ve proven to be so dangerous that they’ve basically been banned. AI is one of the few things that the Alliance, independents, Empire and Federation will actively work together against to defeat if they have to. It’s not made public knowledge, because they don’t want people to be actively working on it, but things are kept behind the scenes to make sure such technology never develops. That doesn’t mean of course that it hasn’t. It is believed that maybe one or two have escaped into deep space, but who knows, maybe we should find out.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6z5...utu.be&t=8m31s

    "It's not AI that's banned, but machine sentience. You can still have smart computers, but they're not allowed to be self-aware." "Self awareness is a different construct to intelligence. You can have a system making intelligent decisions without being self-aware, although finding a definition of self-awareness or intelligence that everyone agrees with is probably a bigger challenge" "Mimicking humans isn't a greatest test of intelligence in my opinion. Machine intelligence would be of a different order to human thinking."

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Universe/page3
    Ah, I'd thought from what you'd said in your post that you meant that the discovery of evidence of the constructs meant there'd been a pre-emptive ban on the development of sentient AI.

    Edit - and yeah, those are the lorestreams I meant, ta!