The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[That90skid]

Isnt it still opt in and doesnt remove anything from the other players? Sure they dont get the PvP goodies, but they never did either.
The proposal you have offered up does remove things other players already have. So more in line with adding something to one group but not taking away from the other group.
Havent played WoW in a long time. The PvP flags were good too. This kind of replaces that right. To kind of group like minded individuals together?

That would kind of be like putting in a permit (open only) bubble for the PvPers, but as I recall that got shouted down when suggested.

NO ONE IS GETTING ANYTHING REMOVED. Did you watch the video?

Did you pay attention at all?

you replied in 7 minutes. You didnt watch anything. This is the issue here. No one pays attention. And they fight for stuff they have no hand in. or refuse to acknowledge.

another one bites the dust.

[Roybe]

Im not going to play an intentionally unbalanced game. As much as I love the game. Im not going to stay if it stays the same.

Im not going to play a game I love, only to end up hating it because of crappy balancing.

Ill just go play world of warcraft. They took everything we're talking about here. And implemented it in Battle For Azeroth. Same server, PVP groups fight over territory. PVEers get to opt in or out. But if you PVE you have no say so over the zone. Its funneling people that normally dont PVE into PVP if they want the reward.

ALL ON THE SAME SHARDED SERVER. You fight for it. Or dont. But if you dont fight for it with other PVPers. You cant complain you're never getting the buffs. Its all about doing your part.

Its a good watch, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdrAJYCXfNM
Its 100% relate-able to Elite Dangerous.

And Proves games can change over time. Just like this one is capable of doing. It just needs proper balance.

Its funny though, its like they took everything anyone has said about balancing for meaningful PVP and did it in another game. Because it makes sense!

That video is a prime example of this.

The only way this game becomes enjoyable and meaningful for PVP players is when the devs add a bucket/series of buckets to the BGS that allow PVP to occur. There are no separate servers, there is only matchmaking. There is only one server...it runs the BGS...it is 'non-shardable'...whether the devs will ever make a second or third server is, although possible, it's extremely unlikely, since it also shards the galaxy between the servers...storyline outcomes, BGS fights, etc. etc. ad nauseum...and also increases their maintenance cost.

In short, this game is not designed as a MMO like WoW, and cannot be developed along the same lines...without a ground up redesign.

[That90skid]

The only way this game becomes enjoyable and meaningful for PVP players is when the devs add a bucket/series of buckets to the BGS that allow PVP to occur. There are no separate servers, there is only matchmaking. There is only one server...it runs the BGS...it is 'non-shardable'...whether the devs will ever make a second or third server is, although possible, is extremely unlikely, since it also shards the galaxy between the servers...

Are you still trying to tell me how the game works? I know how it works. What part if this dont you understand?

Im showing the needs for changes. A lot of people are.

Thats how you get changes done. Showing facts not opinions. Proof and not the same circular discussion.

Havnt you guys noticed I can write essays on this stuff? I know how the game works Roybe.

[That90skid]

See I still disagree that people will only take the optimal route. We have been down that rabbit hole a time or two and I dont think we will ever agree, I think you are missing out on a whole world of fun play sticking to only the optimal.
But with the faction being PvP only, only PvP factions could affect them so I dont see the imbalance there. No A PvP faction could not expand into a PvE faction territory but we are also talking about them not being able to expand into a PvP area.
It has many areas of failure in my opinion but I dont see that as one of them, unless its really all about number of targets which I dont think it is in this case. Then again i have been wrong before even watched my self do it.

I use the modes to min max. Im always going to take the optimal route. People learn this early on with CG's.

Want proof, go to any thread where people complain about being ganked in open with their shieldless cutter. There will be 3-4 replies saying USE MOBIUS PVE with the link provided.

Usually those guys dont play the BGS or powerplay yet. Even though they got that cutter. Those guys complaining arent the ones that have deep knowledge of the game. Cause trust me, those guys that do have the knowledge of the game and BGS mechanics(that are very indepth). Would never EVER make a post like that. Because they learned early on just the same as the rest of us the risks and rewards vs ship builds early on in the game with CG's.

Does this make sense?

[Roybe]

Are you still trying to tell me how the game works? I know how it works. What part if this dont you understand?

Im showing the needs for changes. A lot of people are.

Thats how you get changes done. Showing facts not opinions. Proof and not the same circular discussion.

Havnt you guys noticed I can write essays on this stuff? I know how the game works Roybe.

Great...then you understand that the game cannot be broken into shards, right?

That there is only 1 monolithic unbreakable set of databases, that everyone plays on?

That Modes are only players choices to interactions with other players?

The Monolothic database does not, currently, register any activities with PVP?

That the game is PTP and not Client/server (like WoW)?

And that your desires go against this set of design criteria?

[jasonbarron]

Are you still trying to tell me how the game works? I know how it works. What part if this dont you understand?

Im showing the needs for changes. A lot of people are.

Thats how you get changes done. Showing facts not opinions. Proof and not the same circular discussion.

Havnt you guys noticed I can write essays on this stuff? I know how the game works Roybe.

The grand strategy of the half dozen people you so often find yourself arguing with is to beat you down with an almost miraculous persistence that will inevitably result in you becoming frustrated and giving up. The trick is to understand that you will never convince this group of people of anything. The good news is that other people may read your words and see their value and perhaps be swayed by your arguments.

[That90skid]

See you still dont get it lol.

WoWs servers arent sharded either in that example. All it does is phase out the PVPers and the PVPers. The end outcome of the PVPers effects the PVEers. Every action PVPers take is what influences the server. Still single shard.

Its just a filter system. like we have now. Except the PVEers have no effect. And if you want that buff for the area. Then you have to FIGHT FOR IT, by switching modes.

Do you understand what they are doing here? And how this translates to Elite Dangerous.

Its the Exact same thing people have been asking for in Elite. Otherwise, everyone will fight for it in the PVE mode. There would be no reason to PVP in WoW knowing you can be stopped. SO they funnel it on the SAME SHARDED SERVER. Where you are forced to PVP if you want control of the zone. If you dont PVP for it. You cant complain you didnt get the buff as a PVEer because you offered nothing in the area where Playergroups reside. Or in WoW's case, Faction vs Faction.

No different than the changes Elite Needs. Same thing Different game.

Because IT MAKES SENSE.

[That90skid]

The grand strategy of the half dozen people you so often find yourself arguing with is to beat you down with an almost miraculous persistence that will inevitably result in you becoming frustrated and giving up.

Yep, and its the same people every-time. its why that bingo card exists lol.

Roybe just said he watched hundreds of PVPers walk away on his friends list. And people dont care. (but the devs do care)

These guys know whats happening here

They are now being called out on it. Its been a facade this whole time. The wall of info, everything has been tailor made / social engineering. But I caught on and its only the same few doing it. (Speaking for everyone else )

Ive posted in different threads across these forums. And Ive seen the same people follow this discussion even if I wasnt a part of it when someone else brings it up.

hell you can go back to this thread, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...=1#post3680532 and scroll a few pages and see the same people show up. Very upset he even acknowledged risk and reward.

The shows over man. This water-gate crap is coming to an end.

Its really funny to watch.

[That90skid]

No proof in that statement, I know players who dont do the META thing and they have been playing like me since beta release. We learned that you have fun however you can. For me flying in an unshielded ship (for a while) was the best way to go since the rebuy was less (as well as no weapons etc) so it was much easier to recover from. That got boring and I tried something different, not because it was more optimal but because I got tired of the other way. I do that, you know, change things up from time to time just for fun.
If you think the majority of the player base even visits these forums you need a reality check. Mobius (all its groups) are handed out for players that just dont want to be bothered with PvP regardless of the reason. I doubt its only because of the META.
My guess is most players dont care about PvP and do not get involved. Most players dont even really play the BGS intentionally or ever join a player faction or try to flip a system.
So what you seem to want is to change the game of the majority for the subset of the least popular play style in the game.

Ive posted proof, yall intentionally turn a blind eye to it.

[Mohrgan]

See you still dont get it lol.

WoWs servers arent sharded either in that example. All it does is phase out the PVPers and the PVPers. The end outcome of the PVPers effects the PVEers. Every action PVPers take is what influences the server. Still single shard.

Its just a filter system. like we have now. Except the PVEers have no effect. And if you want that buff for the area. Then you have to FIGHT FOR IT, by switching modes.

Do you understand what they are doing here? And how this translates to Elite Dangerous.

Its the Exact same thing people have been asking for in Elite. Otherwise, everyone will fight for it in the PVE mode. There would be no reason to PVP in WoW knowing you can be stopped. SO they funnel it on the SAME SHARDED SERVER. Where you are forced to PVP if you want control of the zone. If you dont PVP for it. You cant complain you didnt get the buff as a PVEer because you offered nothing in the area where Playergroups reside. Or in WoW's case, Faction vs Faction.

No different than the changes Elite Needs. Same thing Different game.

Because IT MAKES SENSE.

Not much different than PvP or PvE servers. Just a different way to do it. Somewhere between PvP Flags, and separate servers. PvP servers and open world PvP failed, and now they are just creating a way to recycle the server hardware. Wait until they see only the same 5 guys in the Battle Mode fighting for whatever they drop in.

In WoW there are no territorial battles either, no Player Factions, none of the stuffs your have been harping on. The only thing that resembles E|D in what they described is the phrase PvP.

[That90skid]

Not much different than PvP or PvE servers. Just a different way to do it. Somewhere between PvP Flags, and separate servers. PvP servers and open world PvP failed, and now they are just creating a way to recycle the server hardware. Wait until they see only the same 5 guys in the Battle Mode fighting for whatever they drop in.

In WoW there are no territorial battles either, no Player Factions, none of the stuffs your have been harping on. The only thing that resembles E|D in what they described is the phrase PvP.

Delusional. Are you kidding me? Horde Vs Alliance.

Again, the PVEers have no say so if the zone gets buffed or not. The PVPers do. If they allowed the PVEers to control the zone. Open/Warmode wouldnt have the buffs they get. And the fight for territory would all be done on the PVE side because its optimal.

They funneled the content correctly here.

Stop with your shenanigans will ya?

[Zieman]

The trick is to understand that you will never convince this group of people of anything.

You are of course talking about yourself, That90skid, Algomatic and a few others, right?

[That90skid]

You are of cousre talking about yourself, That90skid, Algomatic and a few others, right?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...=1#post3680680

Speaking of the same people thats been fighting against it for years.

Knowing sandro acknowledged risk and reward in the first place.

[That90skid]

It looks like its not even released yet. When I try to do it I only get a pre-order option so who knows how it will turn out. Shoot even EvE online has gone over to a free to play system, so everything can change.
Still from what I saw it was still an opt in system where things players could already do were not removed from them, just something added.
Why would that not work for ED, why remove something from players, (the BGS is something) so come up with an idea to add to rather than remove, should be simple for someone with all the (limited scope) proof

lol. For the 100th time. NOTHING IS BEING REMOVED. Just Balanced. Nothing would be removed from anyone. Opt in or Opt out.

This is not hard to understand. Put the pony show down and listen to what im trying to tell you.

[Han_Zen]

The 'fix PvP' thread is over there >>> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...lite-Dangerous

This is the 'Equality for NPCs' thread.