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Thread: C&P is broken as heck...

  1. #121
    Originally Posted by CMDR Dumbfries View Post (Source)
    Now that you mention it, why can't we just pay fines and bounties from our ships?
    In the year 2018, I can send money, receive money, pay bills, fines and parking tickets from this device called a "smart phone". Somehow, a thousand years in the future we've lost this ability. At the same time, the authorities are immediately alerted anytime you commit the equivalent of jaywalking no matter where you are.
    That would mean FD using logic and taking away just one time sink. And we all know they dont have or do either.

  2. #122

  3. #123
    Originally Posted by Sir.Tj View Post (Source)
    i was allmost thinking he was abducted.

  4. #124
    Originally Posted by Sir.Tj View Post (Source)
    So a plaster ontop of the bandage ontop of the sling...

    Another IF ontop of the BUT for the WHEN if the MAYBE isn't the case...

  5. #125
    Wow, i thought this crime and punishment system was not an issue until it finally happened to me.

    This is a bit of a sequence of stupidity..

    To gain rep, i did one of those spec ops missions. Because of some confusing mission updates and the mission signal source never spawning, after 10 mins or more had passed and reading the transaction description i guessed i could be doing it wrong, so dropped into one of the convoy sources and started shooting at things wondering if they were 'civilians'. Of course not. And i got a bounty.

    So after another 10 mins or so, gave up, and decided to undo the mess and clear my bounty. Got my way to an anarchy system. Arrived and realized i couldn't! Its also amazing how in clear mind the actual indicator for notoriety is where it is. That's just insanity!

    Must suck to be a combat player if this is what you have to deal with. I only did it because i happened to be in my corvette and for alioth rep (i didn't lose my mind and decide to do combat missions for fun).

    Anyway, back to salvage it is.

  6. #126
    Originally Posted by CMDR Karrde Sun View Post (Source)
    Wow, i thought this crime and punishment system was not an issue until it finally happened to me.

    This is a bit of a sequence of stupidity..

    To gain rep, i did one of those spec ops missions. Because of some confusing mission updates and the mission signal source never spawning, after 10 mins or more had passed and reading the transaction description i guessed i could be doing it wrong, so dropped into one of the convoy sources and started shooting at things wondering if they were 'civilians'. Of course not. And i got a bounty.

    So after another 10 mins or so, gave up, and decided to undo the mess and clear my bounty. Got my way to an anarchy system. Arrived and realized i couldn't! Its also amazing how in clear mind the actual indicator for notoriety is where it is. That's just insanity!

    Must suck to be a combat player if this is what you have to deal with. I only did it because i happened to be in my corvette and for alioth rep (i didn't lose my mind and decide to do combat missions for fun).

    Anyway, back to salvage it is.

    Your time is valuable...

  7. #127
    Originally Posted by CMDR Karrde Sun View Post (Source)
    Wow, i thought this crime and punishment system was not an issue until it finally happened to me.

    This is a bit of a sequence of stupidity..

    To gain rep, i did one of those spec ops missions. Because of some confusing mission updates and the mission signal source never spawning, after 10 mins or more had passed and reading the transaction description i guessed i could be doing it wrong, so dropped into one of the convoy sources and started shooting at things wondering if they were 'civilians'. Of course not. And i got a bounty.

    So after another 10 mins or so, gave up, and decided to undo the mess and clear my bounty. Got my way to an anarchy system. Arrived and realized i couldn't! Its also amazing how in clear mind the actual indicator for notoriety is where it is. That's just insanity!

    Must suck to be a combat player if this is what you have to deal with. I only did it because i happened to be in my corvette and for alioth rep (i didn't lose my mind and decide to do combat missions for fun).

    Anyway, back to salvage it is.
    Put it this way...I spent the entire afternoon washing the car when the original plan was to play. Its gotten to the point where I cant even be bothered logging in anymore. I was enthusiastic a few weeks ago...much less so now. Much as I like criminal gameplay, its punishing ye hard fer very trivial stuff and it now takes twice the actual time played to achieve the same result as before 3.0.

    What that basically translates down to is...they made the grind worse, not better and certainly not fun. So much fer valuing our time then...I wonder how they kept a straight face when they said that cos I sure as hell couldnt ^

  8. #128
    Originally Posted by peteuplink View Post (Source)
    The one thing that really bugs me about the C&P system is, when you get killed by a pirate and you're carrying cargo for a mission, you respawn and you not only had to pay the buyback cost of your ship, but also you get a fine for the loss of the cargo... Surely that's not right...
    You should get fined. You took possession of the cargo, it's on you to protect it.

    btw, since the new C&P I've refused to take a single kill mission of any sort. Now I am just wandering about aimlessly, doing whatever.

  9. #129
    Originally Posted by verminstar View Post (Source)
    What that basically translates down to is...they made the grind worse, not better and certainly not fun. So much fer valuing our time then...I wonder how they kept a straight face when they said that cos I sure as hell couldnt ^
    Crime and punishment seemed nothing but a response to new players getting ganked in open. Its completely a reaction to a problem. Notice how the main effect only triggers on ship destruction? NPC ship destruction is integral to the combat play style. Its player ship destruction that is a sensitive issue. Every single feature describing it sounds like a patch to a patch.

    Same with the mission board. Its serving a player community management function rather more than fitting into its BGS attributes.

    Cheap cheap.

  10. #130
    I never get this "wasting our time" notion. Wasting what or rather with what? In the end it boils down to wasting your time with playing the game, no matter what. The crux is how it actually feels to you. If it feels like wasting your time than instead of trying to change the game you rather should start to question how you play the game. It's usually a problem for those who stubbornly and highly focused follow one certain goal until its reached. You can play the game however you like but of all things don't do that, one activity all the time. Spread your activities, play elastic and don't stare too much at efficiency. Efficiency is the highway to boredom and while a good thing in real life it's a fun killer in games, especially in this one. I know, it's bad news for the competitive player...

  11. #131
    Originally Posted by picommander View Post (Source)
    I never get this "wasting our time" notion. Wasting what or rather with what? In the end it boils down to wasting your time with playing the game, no matter what. The crux is how it actually feels to you. If it feels like wasting your time than instead of trying to change the game you rather should start to question how you play the game. It's usually a problem for those who stubbornly and highly focused follow one certain goal until its reached. You can play the game however you like but of all things don't do that, one activity all the time. Spread your activities, play elastic and don't stare too much at efficiency. Efficiency is the highway to boredom and while a good thing in real life it's a fun killer in games, especially in this one. I know, it's bad news for the competitive player...
    I agree with you, but take a less hostile stance against people who i think do it wrong.

    In all honestly its frontiers actual problem. Until they address specifically what elite is or is ultimately trying to do its not anyones fault for arriving with incorrect expectations. Especially if you consider the marketing videos on steam.

    I know there's elements of frontiers pr style and their incremental development approach, but leaving things deliberately vague is allowing players to find themselves as broken in elite though no fault of their own.

    Its not just one sided to: eg, i thought we were going to get some real story in elite regarding the thargoids, non combat players ended up looking stupid there when thargoids turned out to be not much more than a first attempt at group pve (and second tier of combat gear progression). Should have taken the hint when the introduction cutscene was nothing more than space military pew pew. Or maybe crime and punishment will turn out to be combat players dream gameplay loop.. just in 6-8 months time and after a few more super secret content patches

  12. #132
    Originally Posted by NeilF View Post (Source)
    And he'll know exactly how much time he'll need to waste, and how much faff is involved too... And no doubt he'll look forward to the quality gameplay time involved for the supposed improvement in outcome?

    Remember! Our time is valued!
    Your right Neil, its less than 2.4's 8 minutes.

    Considerably longer if you write forum post, excuse me off to clear a bounty!

    Simon

  13. #133
    Good point. Here's my story, got caught in a hit box while leaving an outpost running missions in Sothis/Ceos, and couldn't get clear of the landing pad. I get the penalty for reckless flying, damaging the station, whatever... and for that matter, even getting my ship destroyed by the guards. Problem I have, is the 250 LY flight back from prison to where I was cost me as much in credits for the lost time than either my rebuy or fines. And I HAVE to go back to clear the fine for the lost materials, eventually anyway. This system penalizes commanders for flying mistakes we should be able to pay off at the scene. At least give us an "Oh !" option where we can admit damage to a station and pay off an increased fine. Not enough discrimination between accidental acts and the ones the system is obviously designed to prevent.

  14. #134
    Originally Posted by pilotmcpilotpants View Post (Source)
    Good point. Here's my story, got caught in a hit box while leaving an outpost running missions in Sothis/Ceos, and couldn't get clear of the landing pad. I get the penalty for reckless flying, damaging the station, whatever... and for that matter, even getting my ship destroyed by the guards. Problem I have, is the 250 LY flight back from prison to where I was cost me as much in credits for the lost time than either my rebuy or fines. And I HAVE to go back to clear the fine for the lost materials, eventually anyway. This system penalizes commanders for flying mistakes we should be able to pay off at the scene. At least give us an "Oh !" option where we can admit damage to a station and pay off an increased fine. Not enough discrimination between accidental acts and the ones the system is obviously designed to prevent.
    From what I understand the next update should address situations like these.

    Btw, "caught in a hit box while leaving an outpost", what am I supposed to make of that? Care to elaborate?

    Btw 2, I have to admit I'm often playing in a state nobody sane in its mind should play, like drunken or *way* too tired or both. Meanwhile it happened more than once that I found myself tumbling over a landing pad after fallen asleep, both in Coriolis stations and outposts. Note that I'm playing a (semi) ironman game (which I started in Open and thus still see entries of human commanders from 20. March, so he should be a little more than 5 weeks old by now) with permanent FA Off (so no stable state by default), yet this commander has to see his first rebuy screen! Isn't this a strong indicator of the game being already way too harmless by now? The reason I mention this is cause what you describe sounds like a colossal disaster, something that even a comatose commander like me couldn't achieve in the last 5 weeks and thus really *should* hurt, don't you think so? I think one or two steps further towards forgiving gameplay and we've got teletubbies in space...

    Or maybe I'm playing this game for just way too long (about 5 years by now) and meanwhile must have learned to play in my sleep.

  15. #135
    Sorry, I should have been clearer about how I died. As near as I can tell, I got caught on one of the signal light poles at this outpost. Tried to clear away by reversing thrust, toggling landing gear, rotating and going flat to the deck, nothing worked. That was the only obstacle in sight, outposts are pretty boxy. By "hit box" I mean the game has rectangular hit boxes not matching the dimensions of the actual object, and "getting caught" in something you cannot even see is laughingly common. My point is, this was an accidental situation not caused by carelessness, and the "Punishment" should fit the "Crime." I was killed because of blocking landing pad violation, and not when I was flying recklessly, that was my point.

    I expected to pay, but my point is the blocking penalty is designed to stop griefers, and in this case I had no way to avoid and would call this a glitch. If we are interdicted, we have the option to throttle down and submit, not so with the cops with whom you have no way to "hands up - don't shoot." #EliteLivesMatter

    I do agree 100%, the game should have danger, and in many cases it does not have enough. But this is something that could be improved, and I hope as you stated, it will be. For instance, avoiding NPC interdiction is laughably easy and should be more dangerous. But it's not like I am ramming into landing pads or boosting into the station.

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