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Thread: A request for FDev; please provide an update regarding Logging/Combat Logging

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by RebelTheorist View Post (Source)
    Clogging is something complained about by people who are adamant that OPEN is meant for PVP only..... This is just not the case.

    I have said previousy that i never have and never will clog, but when you have commanders (and this happened to me 3 times when i first started out) attacking others for no other reason than to satisfy their own weird sense of worth..... what do you expect?

    They get nothing out of it, there is no leaderboard, no name up in lights...... if you are a pirate be a pirate....demand/take cargo if they resist after a warning fine.... thats PVP

    It's people like the moron who attacked my freind that spoil it for the true PVP players, simply because they like to hide behind the PVP name.

    If you truly want PVP with like minded PVP'ers without the annoyance of clogging......CQC test your metal against other like minded comdrs.

    If you want to play a pirate play a pirate..... but like cloggers.... you cant be forced to play in either SOLO, PG, or OPEN. It's a preference and just like in everything else.... there is always a minority that spoil it for the majority. You cant complain about CLOGGING if nothing is done about GANKING or GRIEFING.

    If players dont like being attacked they have the option to CLOG because the framework allows this.

    If PVP'ers dont like being CLOGGED you have the option of CQC because that is what it was made for...... Call of Duty in space.

    This argument will go round and round and round.... It's not going to change accept it.
    you say ganking and griefing has to be sorted before we look at logging but what is it you want to happen like they already have a c and p system followed by atr terminator ships what else do you want to happen. loggers can be griefers too not just traders or your random cmdrs. logging is not acceptable in any situation it only takes 15 to 30 sec to high wake.

  2. #77
    Drawing my contribution to this deabte to a close... There will always be a minority that spoil it for the majority.... and that goes for all sides of an argument.

    My point is there will always be a party that feels they have been wronged. Not everyone can be right and no matter what anyone does there will always be someone who is not happy with what has or has not been done about it. There is a way to avoid it for both parties. DO NOT PLAY IN OPEN!

    The game mode people choose to play is a choice.

    SOLO, PG is a safe environment for people play alone if they choose to.

    CQC is solely PVP

    OPEN belongs to neither side of this argument which was my initial point. Saying if you dont like it do not play in open is just not right it just leads me back to my original point......

    Whilst i agree with the majority of points raised, apart from the above, this is a very one sided thread. When people choose to play in OPEN, they should be fully aware of the fact that they may be attacked... but it begs the question that do those who love to play PVP understand that OPEN does not also solely mean PVP mode? To many OPEN is an opportunity to meet other Cmdrs. OPEN does not solely belong to the PVP'ers.

    I myself got ganked, griefed whatever you want to call it when i first started out playing in open..... 3 time i got attacked and destroyed without warning or provocation, no demand for cargo and no bounty on my head.. After the third time i went into solo and PG, didn't go back to OPEN until i started doing CG's in a python..... that's when i met most of my group, the entire reason i played OPEN originally was to meet new people. Not because i wanted to kill some random to feel better about myself or be a pirate.... by the way you can be a pirate in SOLO and PG too, but it's not as much fun alone is it? Just the same for people who dont want to be pirates.... some people just dont find it much fun in SOLO or PG.
    That's me done... after being guilty of venting after what happened to my friend. Apologies.

  3. #78
    Originally Posted by RebelTheorist View Post (Source)
    Clogging is something complained about by people who are adamant that OPEN is meant for PVP only..... This is just not the case.
    This argument will go round and round and round.... It's not going to change accept it.
    Originally Posted by RebelTheorist View Post (Source)
    Drawing my contribution to this deabte to a close... There will always be a minority that spoil it for the majority.... and that goes for all sides of an argument.
    *low wakes in*

    Have read all so this so far. IMHO, the quoted above is spot on. Rep +1

    What I'd like to know is: how are FD supposed to differentiate from their end of the sim between a CMDR clogging, a power outage, connection fault, software crash. A similar event or a combination thereof?

    Yes, clogging is a bit lame, but so is ganking and griefing, UA bombing, etc. Just as much, possibly more so. Clogging doesn't bother me, the general mentality of some of the player base is my concern. Cant do much about that either.

    It is just sadly one of the side consequences of a particular style of game play. Improvise, overcome and adapt. Or simply just suck it up and quit yer 1 in'



    *low wakes out*

    (Edit: 1 - I seem to have inadvertently triggered the censor filter. Please read *pout* instead. Censorship on the internet is %$£"$£ and "£$%!

  4. #79
    Please define ganking and griefing... For the last month I've been doing a blockade in Sol with my Sidewinder, Federation is bad for the humanity... 1/3 of the pilots clog on me, ppl in Condas, Cutters, FAS... What's the point of clogging when you got all your chances to escape once the FSD is rebooted.... I don't really think it's griefing or ganking even if my little ship is full of surprises...
    Also why Clog is only linked to Open, how many players are affecting the BGS daily in PG/Solo and are cheating? I'm quite sure there's a high number of player doing that...
    And CQC... I already saw ppl clogging in CQC, and you can do CQC and pewpews in Open!

  5. #80
    I've come to appreciate when someone logs on me. They accept they can't win and are forced to change how they play the game.

  6. #81
    Originally Posted by Thepirateorc View Post (Source)
    reading most posts on page 4 mentions killing the weak which yes isn't good however this is some of the things that are in open we do not force players to pvp it is just a common thing within open. I understand that some people don't intend on going into open and mistakenly choose it at the start but I think when choosing open there should be a confirmation msg like (are you sure you want to go into open play, there is the possibily you might encounter hostile players if you feel if you don't want player interaction then we recommend private group or solo play) with this message it makes the cmdr liable for logging as he or she was made aware of the state of open and what could happen.
    ^^ cracking suggestion

  7. #82
    Originally Posted by Hairbear View Post (Source)
    Might be off base but feeling like genuine pirates are getting lumped in with the ganker crowd a bit.

    When i pirate my only objectives are some player interaction and maybe some cargo if im lucky! Im not looking to spoil anyones game experience just have fun.

    I can agree that the gankers are a nuisance for some players and could spoil an evenings fun, but by the same token cloggers are a nuisance and spoil my evenings fun. They have a perfect way to avoid me in game (solo / pg) but I have no way to avoid them. Its not my personal approach for loggers to be KOS but i can fully understand the reasoning for some CMDRs to do so.

    Unfortunately the two problems (cloggers and gankers) are linked and the new crime and punishment system has done nothing to fix either.
    I think you're right. In game pirates can get put in the same pot as Griefers/Gankers by players that don't agree with piracy. In game pirates are only interested in cargo and not the kill. The problem with Logging/Combat Logging during piracy is this: During pure combat, if a player logs, the player disappears and the player he logged on could take it as a win. Its still cheating, but a win nonetheless. In piracy, if a player logs, we get no cargo, we gain a bounty and it eats in to profits for nothing. Yes, pirates use the threat of destroying their ship, show of speed/power and in my case 'protection' for 24 hours as an incentive to comply, but in the end, if properly equipped, you should still be able to extract cargo anyway (and no 24hr of 'protection'). Logging/Combat Logging is bad for piracy, more so I believe, than pure combat/ganking/griefing.

    But as stated on my OP, I'd like FDev to update the current situation on Logging/Combat Logging and what plans, if any, they have on dealing with it.

  8. #83
    There's a difference.

    I hope you're not of the opinion that if someone logs off before you get to kill them, its cheating or wrong.
    Meaning, the game has a count down and if they choose to log off using this method, its not wrong or cheating. I understand it may bother you but also understand you are choosing to be a pirate and smuggler



    Lets say its a situation where you both are attacking one another and they log off....still if its within the game design its not wrong or cheating.

    The only thing that could be wrong or cheating is if you suspect they are triggering a network disconnect when in combat and when not using the countdown to log off.




    In the end, I think it hilarious that so many complain about this because here is a point of view I've always had on this.
    *IF your position is the game allows PvP so you consider it O K to attack others for whatever reason you have, that doesn't mean they have to play within that. So just as you feel they shouldn't log out, they may feel they shouldn't need to die. Its pretty simple, treat others as you'd like to be treated and for the most part, that isn't what occurring so you have this Combat Log complaint stuff.



    My opinion is form what I've read and heard the developers say....its a sensitive topic and the actual solution is a larger decision.
    Perhaps the different game modes should allow a PvP on/off feature so that its 100% clear who is open to it and who isn't

    That's the real solution and then from there Crime and Punishment needs real strict rules and any role such as pirate, smuggler, etc needs actual UI prompts and interactions with a block on attacking unless the time and UI expire, etc. Reason is because people create this....I do this cause that is what I like and give it a name and then think that is playing the game.......but its not.

    You're just online disrupting others and intentionally causing turmoil and distress....that is being a griefer.


    As is...the game is a big open garbage can on PvP concerns.
    That's just what I've observed

  9. #84
    Originally Posted by Dark Polo 65 View Post (Source)
    Please define ganking and griefing... For the last month I've been doing a blockade in Sol with my Sidewinder, Federation is bad for the humanity... 1/3 of the pilots clog on me, ppl in Condas, Cutters, FAS... What's the point of clogging when you got all your chances to escape once the FSD is rebooted.... I don't really think it's griefing or ganking even if my little ship is full of surprises...
    Also why Clog is only linked to Open, how many players are affecting the BGS daily in PG/Solo and are cheating? I'm quite sure there's a high number of player doing that...
    And CQC... I already saw ppl clogging in CQC, and you can do CQC and pewpews in Open!

    That which is highlighted can easily be considered griefing because it reads as if you are attacking just to attack and prevent or block others form content.
    It would be different if you were attacking those from another Power while trying to establish traction among your own power.

    If you are a pirate, this means you are pulling ships, asking for cargo to be dropped and letting them go when the drop cargo.

    If you are pulling people that don't have cargo, or just pulling people and attacking you ARE NOT BEING A PIRATE. You are being a Player Killer and that can be griefing as well as more appropriately named as ganking.


    FYI: Combat Logging isn't using the system to log out.

    "
    ...¯ is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.
    "
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...”-Update (source)

    So for Xbox One, it would be when someone does a forced quit, or forced drop offline instantly

  10. #85
    Originally Posted by NewBlacksmurf View Post (Source)
    That which is highlighted can easily be considered griefing because it reads as if you are attacking just to attack and prevent or block others form content.
    It would be different if you were attacking those from another Power while trying to establish traction among your own power.

    If you are a pirate, this means you are pulling ships, asking for cargo to be dropped and letting them go when the drop cargo.

    If you are pulling people that don't have cargo, or just pulling people and attacking you ARE NOT BEING A PIRATE. You are being a Player Killer and that can be griefing as well as more appropriately named as ganking.


    FYI: Combat Logging isn't using the system to log out.

    "
    or clarityā€™s sake, ā€œcombat loggingā€¯ is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.
    "
    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...”-Update
    (
    If you are pulling people that don't have cargo, or just pulling people and attacking you ARE NOT BEING A PIRATE. You are being a Player Killer and that can be griefing as well as more appropriately named as ganking) well I disagree if ive seen a player who mouthed off to me cus I pirated them then I might just go blow then up or if I know its a clogger then il also pay a visit and say hi that does not make me a ganker seeking revenge.


  11. #86
    If Powerplay goes Open only, I think there will have to be a material response by FDEV.

    Possibly drop PP related cargo, or Bongo's suggestion.

  12. #87
    Originally Posted by Thepirateorc View Post (Source)
    (
    If you are pulling people that don't have cargo, or just pulling people and attacking you ARE NOT BEING A PIRATE. You are being a Player Killer and that can be griefing as well as more appropriately named as ganking) well I disagree if ive seen a player who mouthed off to me cus I pirated them then I might just go blow then up or if I know its a clogger then il also pay a visit and say hi that does not make me a ganker seeking revenge.

    Thats not a pirate that is gainking and griefing. You are just going out to PK doing your own thing. You’re actually more of a killer or terrorist who should appear on the mission board to be killed by players and ATR. Please stop calling yourself a pirate cause you aren’t.

    Read this:

    Pirates are NPCs and players who attack other ships for their cargo for monetary gain as the primary goal. Player pirates are partially smugglers, because they need to sell stolen cargo on the black market. “

    Source:
    http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Pirate

  13. #88
    Originally Posted by Freelancer Knux View Post (Source)
    #3 is just wrong pvp is attacking another player. Whether the target gets to know the reason why they were a target or not is irrelevant.

    #1 and 2 are completely situational you have no way of knowing if those things would or wouldn't have made a difference.

    Most importantly though how does your post relate to clogging?
    Cmdr,

    Everything you wrote in my quote is not correct.


    Its obvious that ppl would only gank a non wing and lesser ship because it just happened after the wing broke and they changed ships. It’s not situational...it’s the experience so many of us have.

    I literally today was in an Orca....yes and Orca with 0 cargo, no guns and doing a passenger transport and guess what. Pulled and attacked with no bounty, fine and not aligned to a power anymore. Now I just happened to log out in time and got a msg....asking why did I combat log

    sooo I reported them for griefing because 1, I didn’t combat log, 2 they are griefing and 3 they are not pirating but messaging me multiple times cause i didn’t let them kill me.......I’m not o k with that

    Heck my passenger didn’t even appear as a criminal or high value
    thats been my experience every time I’m not in my Cutter or Conda

    PvP is not “attacking another player”
    PvP is defunded as Player vs another Player. What’s most important here is BOTH players have agreed and intend on Competing against one another.

    So in terms of how this relates to combat logging.....in another comment you define Combat logging in terms of if another player leaves the game while being attacked. That’s NOT combat logging, that’s leaving a griefing or tanking situation

    While you can choose to be a terrorist or criminal or murderer, don’t apply the logic that those behaviors are “right” and that others who are online must participate. Also, by the others being in Open, it doesn’t mean nor should it be assumed that they are in that mode and open to being ganked.

    If I can speak straight....if the developers do change the game to offset combat logging, in my opinion it needs to come with an opt in/out of being yanked as well as a role selection so that if you want permission to freely attack others, you are permanent labeled as wanted, criminal and show a bounty all the time because if you want to be a bad boy....you should be subject to bad boy consequences.

    The other her part is combat logging should only apply if two are flagged and one D/c on purpose not if they log out. On the flip side if you attack someone who logs out, you should also fall under the same harsh penalty that many of you are suggesting for combat loggers as your actions are the cause so both should be equally penalized.

  14. #89
    Originally Posted by NewBlacksmurf View Post (Source)
    Cmdr,

    Everything you wrote in my quote is not correct.


    Its obvious that ppl would only gank a non wing and lesser ship because it just happened after the wing broke and they changed ships. It’s not situational...it’s the experience so many of us have.

    I literally today was in an Orca....yes and Orca with 0 cargo, no guns and doing a passenger transport and guess what. Pulled and attacked with no bounty, fine and not aligned to a power anymore. Now I just happened to log out in time and got a msg....asking why did I combat log

    sooo I reported them for griefing because 1, I didn’t combat log, 2 they are griefing and 3 they are not pirating but messaging me multiple times cause i didn’t let them kill me.......I’m not o k with that

    Heck my passenger didn’t even appear as a criminal or high value
    thats been my experience every time I’m not in my Cutter or Conda

    PvP is not “attacking another player”
    PvP is defunded as Player vs another Player. What’s most important here is BOTH players have agreed and intend on Competing against one another.

    So in terms of how this relates to combat logging.....in another comment you define Combat logging in terms of if another player leaves the game while being attacked. That’s NOT combat logging, that’s leaving a griefing or tanking situation

    While you can choose to be a terrorist or criminal or murderer, don’t apply the logic that those behaviors are “right” and that others who are online must participate. Also, by the others being in Open, it doesn’t mean nor should it be assumed that they are in that mode and open to being ganked.

    If I can speak straight....if the developers do change the game to offset combat logging, in my opinion it needs to come with an opt in/out of being yanked as well as a role selection so that if you want permission to freely attack others, you are permanent labeled as wanted, criminal and show a bounty all the time because if you want to be a bad boy....you should be subject to bad boy consequences.

    The other her part is combat logging should only apply if two are flagged and one D/c on purpose not if they log out. On the flip side if you attack someone who logs out, you should also fall under the same harsh penalty that many of you are suggesting for combat loggers as your actions are the cause so both should be equally penalized.
    Lad please get it right a "gank" requires multiple ships not just one.

    Another is it is noticeable when someone menu logs or clogs both are poor form in my eyes but menu logging is an in game option and viewed as ok by the devs, clogging on the otherhand is flat out cheating no two ways about it.

    This one you don't seem to understand PvP doesn't have to be consensual in anyway shape or form it is a fight between players no more no less.

    Personally i hunt and kill players in my I courier so dont assume all PKers only use big ships and only attack weak prey, the best sport comes from shredding a PvE conda with PAs. But there are consequences to my actions as my I courier has a bounty on it and ATR butt their nose in as well.

    My point is though if you want to have control over your interactions with others in this game you can do that in PG, if you want to just do your own thing you can do that in SOLO and if you want to play in sandbox with players doing whatever they choose you have OPEN. Don't sit there later though and go "oh I picked OPEN and things aren't going my way so I'll cheat and blame them for my actions."
    That is the issue people cheating cause of not getting their way, the game has these options for a reason don't pick OPEN and expect people to act like you want.

  15. #90
    Originally Posted by NewBlacksmurf View Post (Source)
    There's a difference.

    I hope you're not of the opinion that if someone logs off before you get to kill them, its cheating or wrong.
    Meaning, the game has a count down and if they choose to log off using this method, its not wrong or cheating. I understand it may bother you but also understand you are choosing to be a pirate and smuggler



    Lets say its a situation where you both are attacking one another and they log off....still if its within the game design its not wrong or cheating.

    The only thing that could be wrong or cheating is if you suspect they are triggering a network disconnect when in combat and when not using the countdown to log off.




    In the end, I think it hilarious that so many complain about this because here is a point of view I've always had on this.
    *IF your position is the game allows PvP so you consider it O K to attack others for whatever reason you have, that doesn't mean they have to play within that. So just as you feel they shouldn't log out, they may feel they shouldn't need to die. Its pretty simple, treat others as you'd like to be treated and for the most part, that isn't what occurring so you have this Combat Log complaint stuff.



    My opinion is form what I've read and heard the developers say....its a sensitive topic and the actual solution is a larger decision.
    Perhaps the different game modes should allow a PvP on/off feature so that its 100% clear who is open to it and who isn't

    That's the real solution and then from there Crime and Punishment needs real strict rules and any role such as pirate, smuggler, etc needs actual UI prompts and interactions with a block on attacking unless the time and UI expire, etc. Reason is because people create this....I do this cause that is what I like and give it a name and then think that is playing the game.......but its not.

    You're just online disrupting others and intentionally causing turmoil and distress....that is being a griefer.


    As is...the game is a big open garbage can on PvP concerns.
    That's just what I've observed
    I'm going to assume you read my previous post correctly. The timed log out is a function added by FDev. Therefore it's not cheating in their eyes as its an intended feature. Personally, I don't agree with it, but it is within their rules and so it's not cheating. I do understand the difference.

    Next onto your personal opinion on what you consider griefing is, in accordance with the second paragraph from the bottom of your post; your definition of griefing is incorrect like a lot of Cmdrs on this forum/game. If a player or players in a highly engineered ship or ships pull you, in let's say a Type 9, drop in and insta-kill you, fly off and carry on killing other players, that is not griefing. Just for the record, I don't do this, I RP a (PvP) pirate. I'm interested in cargo.

    Griefing is consistent harassment, to the point that a player can't play the game. Emphasis on consistent harassment though. A lot of players these days shout 'griefer' when somebody just shoots them. Your previous post regarding an attack on your Orca was not griefing, as much as you liked to think it was, so much so, you felt you had to 'report' it.

    That is not my opinion on what griefing is, it's fact. The definition is available for anyone to see in the public domain.

    I say again, I play a pirate, no griefing here. Whether you like it or not, piracy is a valid career choice in ED, accept it. I'm not going to stop just because I don't play your way.

    This thread was asking FDev for an update on Logging/Combat Logging.

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