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Thread: A request for FDev; please provide an update regarding Logging/Combat Logging

  1. #151
    Originally Posted by verminstar View Post (Source)
    Problem being, how do ye get players to enjoy the experience enough to actually be appealing enough to indulge the role play aspect? This game already appeals to a niche audience as it is...genuine role players are almost as rare as a niche within a niche game...if that makes sense.

    The fly in the ointment being consequences...or lack thereof. Crime and punishment brought a few, but it was a feeble effort at best...not havin a dig at frontier over that one, just saying what I think of it as I am one the few fans of the new system...for a first attempt, the foundations seem solid enough and in all fairness, they did actually say that was merely the first part of the crime and punishment changes.

    While I wont judge anyone who does clog, my suggestion to fix it wont win me too many friends here. Basically if the game records ye as taking any damage at all when ye lose connection, then the next time ye log in will be on the rebuy screen. Exceptions would be made fer edge cases where players have a genuinely bad connection obviously, but just like real life insurance claims, more than once or twice and it becomes quite suspicious as it suggests an habitual routine.

    However...ye need to ask frontier about that
    well, this thread is about clog but in this case (slightly offtopic, sorry) highwake is pretty equivalent in dumbing down the pirate mechanics. the problem is the little nuance the system allows for. implementing piracy properly is very difficult. there has to be an option for the victim to escape, even avoid the encounter altogether, but not too much. for the pirate there has to be pressure not to destroy the victim unless absolutely necessary. none of these factors exist in the game. yes, c&p was a fair attempt to solve one of them, but we will never know for sure if it actually works because the other (glaring) holes still exist. another hole is the existence of solo. say if there's hearsay that a system is hot with pirate activity, traders would find an alternate route, pirates would have to catch up. this is nuanced, good gameplay. however, traders can just jump to solo: game spoiled.

    i agree with you that the response to clog should be drastic, it's the only way. the problem again is that some jerk may flood your router / game port with poisoned packets and forcibly disconnect you. this is not easy, but once figured out every "script kiddie" can do it at leisure. and i have little doubt it would be a thing in no time. so there's that, there's no solution to this without fundamental change in the architecture.

  2. #152
    Originally Posted by zn˘rt View Post (Source)
    well, this thread is about clog but in this case (slightly offtopic, sorry) highwake is pretty equivalent in dumbing down the pirate mechanics. the problem is the little nuance the system allows for. implementing piracy properly is very difficult. there has to be an option for the victim to escape, even avoid the encounter altogether, but not too much. for the pirate there has to be pressure not to destroy the victim unless absolutely necessary. none of these factors exist in the game. yes, c&p was a fair attempt to solve one of them, but we will never know for sure if it actually works because the other (glaring) holes still exist. another hole is the existence of solo. say if there's hearsay that a system is hot with pirate activity, traders would find an alternate route, pirates would have to catch up. this is nuanced, good gameplay. however, traders can just jump to solo: game spoiled.

    i agree with you that the response to clog should be drastic, it's the only way. the problem again is that some jerk may flood your router / game port with poisoned packets and forcibly disconnect you. this is not easy, but once figured out every "script kiddie" can do it at leisure. and i have little doubt it would be a thing in no time. so there's that, there's no solution to this without fundamental change in the architecture.

    Ir maybe the simpler solution is just updates to the UI and adding an interaction with opt in/out rules.

    I think the topic tends tends to go into a closed minded direction. The game is very unfinished in terms of what you’d expect from other online multiplayer games with PvE and PvP environments. Many of those games are often UI intuitive

    this game isn’t and lacks direction so I’d argue that’s the simple thing to address

  3. #153
    Originally Posted by zn˘rt View Post (Source)
    i agree with you that the response to clog should be drastic, it's the only way. the problem again is that some jerk may flood your router / game port with poisoned packets and forcibly disconnect you. this is not easy, but once figured out every "script kiddie" can do it at leisure. and i have little doubt it would be a thing in no time. so there's that, there's no solution to this without fundamental change in the architecture.
    Now that is very very norty, completely illegal in some places, and has gotten people in legal trouble before - so nobody do that

    The real issue is that there is nothing stopping gitted gud carebear saltlords dealing with pew-pews eight bytes of payload at a time.

  4. #154
    Originally Posted by NewBlacksmurf View Post (Source)
    Ir maybe the simpler solution is just updates to the UI and adding an interaction with opt in/out rules.
    yeah, opt in/out rules are a good alternative. that's why i welcome the pp open only thing. if you can't get the real thing, finding a way to group people with common interests may be a good thing. not for piracy, but for general pvp.

    Originally Posted by NewBlacksmurf View Post (Source)
    I think the topic tends tends to go into a closed minded direction. The game is very unfinished in terms of what you’d expect from other online multiplayer games with PvE and PvP environments. Many of those games are often UI intuitive

    this game isn’t and lacks direction so I’d argue that’s the simple thing to address
    that's the gist of it, and the solution would require exceptional audacity from the devs (just get it done) or be long term. because technically it's not a small thing. that's where some middle ground would be a good transition. and if the transition in the end never happens, then at least we would have had some cake.

  5. #155
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    Now that is very very norty, completely illegal in some places, and has gotten people in legal trouble before - so nobody do that
    it indeed is, but law enforcement has other priorities than to chase game griefers. and so do game developers unless they are fully invested in the competitive area, or even e-sports sort of thing. frontier has problems enough to deal with i think. it has to work out of the box. a solution requiring human monitoring and intervention is unlikely to be any good imo. precisely clog is a testament to that

    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    The real issue is that there is nothing stopping gitted gud carebear saltlords dealing with pew-pews eight bytes of payload at a time.
    blame my english language skills for not getting the last part of that, which i suspect is a joke i'm hating to miss. or mybe i'm just being dumb. or ... there is always tj!

  6. #156
    I'm not going into details and I don't advocate such behaviour - but it's not a joke and you're not dumb - it's just that a carebear saltlord out to harvest PVP tears could in fact do so without resorting to pathetic script kiddie scrubbage, and indeed without sending anything at all.

  7. #157
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    I'm not going into details and I don't advocate such behaviour - but it's not a joke and you're not dumb - it's just that a carebear saltlord out to harvest PVP tears could in fact do so without resorting to pathetic script kiddie scrubbage, and indeed without sending anything at all.
    now i got it but, well, that's an universal salt constant in multiplayer games. that's on c&p, karma, that sort of stuff. game architecture can be very supportive (if nobody could happily clog, neither could the salt lord, other cmdrs could deal with him to a point!), but it's just not there yet.

  8. #158
    Originally Posted by zn˘rt View Post (Source)
    while that's quite noble and a lot of fun, and perfectly valid gameplay, that's not piracy done properly at all. if the victim is not forced to comply it's just not piracy, it's roleplaying. the victim could have perfectly highwaked or combat logged, and the pirate could have done nothing. this is the consistent complaint of most pirate players there have been in the game.

    there's no intermediate: it's either the victim showing the finger, or the victim actively agreeing to be pirated for fun. the only alternative is the victim being destroyed because of having little knowledge of the game. that doesn't even qualify as piracy mechanics, let alone 'proper'.
    I'll remove Logging/Combat logging from this discussion for a moment. When pirating, the trader has options open to them. Either comply and get 24hrs of protection. Or attempt to escape. Both valid. If they do escape then good on them. If they have no cargo (I use a cargo scanner, or on small ships, a hatchbreaker to confirm if the trader has cargo or not), I'll leave them alone to go about their business, I certainly don't kill them. However, my success rate of stopping and disabling cargo carrying ships from jumping, by either taking out thrusters or using 'grom bombs', is quite high. My point being, either way, that IS 'proper piracy'. My job is to extract cargo without killing. Logging/Combat logging kills the experiance for both trader and pirate (I'm not talking about timed/menu logging as that is an FDev approved function - I might not agree with it but it is working as intended).

    Just in case you were wondering, I can deal with traders that do not comply. Maybe less cargo (15t in this case) but usually no offer of 24hrs of 'protection' (not in this case - his cargo hatch malfunctioned I believe) - so normally, fair game again. http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/hairy-polo/video/50253623

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