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Thread: Add your support for OPEN ONLY POWERPLAY!

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by ronan187 View Post (Source)
    The game should be open full stop , the galaxy is so big you don't ever need to see other cmdrs.

  2. #77
    Originally Posted by ronan187 View Post (Source)
    The game should be open full stop , the galaxy is so big you don't ever need to see other cmdrs.
    Negative ghost writer....

    While I agree Open should be for those who are Open to PvE and PvP nothing should be forced to one mode.
    Thats what makes this a good game, three choices for the exact same access to ingame features

    take that away and the game looses a lot of its appeal

  3. #78
    Originally Posted by Dutchman141 View Post (Source)
    In light of all modes being equal I'm against locking out certain features of the game for any of the modes.

    That being said I do see that PP is more of a pvp feature and personaly I wouldn't mind if they made it available in open only.
    BUT!!!!!!!!!
    And that's a big but.
    The pp rewards should be moved to the tech broker so that all player will have access to them and not only the open players.
    If FDev decides not to move the rewards out of pp then I'm heavily against pp moving to open only because you'd be excluding a lot of players in obtaining these rewards in their preferred play mode, you can't force people into open.
    A great many of us OO supporters, agree entirely with your sentiments.

    We have already made several requests for PP modules to become TB items.

    It would actually help people who do PP, as it would mean that we would not have to deal with the module shoppers only after big shields.

  4. #79
    Originally Posted by ronan187 View Post (Source)
    The game should be open full stop , the galaxy is so big you don't ever need to see other cmdrs.
    So the bubble extends across the entire galaxy now ? The in game galaxy is big but it's largely empty, which is why most people are in the bubble. So yeah, you pretty much do need to see other players.

  5. #80
    Originally Posted by Mole HD View Post (Source)
    Whilst I agree with your commentary in general, I can't really see why the move to an open mode only mechanic should effect solo players in the slightest. If perhaps the powerplay gated content of the specific module rewards were removed from powerplay and into the tech broker system...I can't see there being an issue. / The entire powerplay mechanic makes absolutely no sense without direct player v player agency in the form of cooperation or opposition as has been proven by 3 years of stagnation and disinterest.
    If it does go Open, then yes, I feel moving all locked items out of any mode is a must.

    I could textwall about it, but frankly I personally care about Elite as an SP RPG, and it's the consequential factional gameplay that Powerplay represents (the potential of something good) that I will hate to see taken from Solo.

    Right now, there is eff all consequence to the silly civilian galactic disposition tracker, incorrectly currently labeled - with military nomenclature - as the auxiliary 'naval' rankings... That whole system is absurd garbage, as literally the only consequences for siding with one or t'other are wholly self-imposed.

    Powerplay - once overhauled - offered the real potential of consequential factional gameplay, which is exactly what RP'ing thrives on. I've always flown a Winters flag emblem, and I've been waiting to see how they'll tweak the feature to something where I'll want to actively engage. Suffice to say moving the whole thing to a mode I don't use was not what I hoped for. ; -)

    So yeah, FDev can pander to the overly vocal PvP'ers (who seem to selfishly demand the entire game's designed just for them, everyone else's thoughts and playstyles be damned) with this move, but they then really need to address any sense of consequential factional gameplay in Solo. As a thoroughly random suggestion; do away with the current stupid ranking system, and functionally replace it with a neutral/independent factional tracker and PF system (the primary role ranks at the moment serve barely any real purpose), and then introduce a bona fide aux navy ranking system - with its own defined flow of military missions - which locks you in to one superpower (with severe and long lasting punishments for those who abandon one side for the other).

    On a side note, but potentially even more important; projects evolve, sure, and Elite's iterative nature is one of its selling points (even if it iterates a bit clumsily, and at a glacial pace). But if/when Powerplay does go Open-only, then FDev will have set a precedent; 'we say one thing, but eventually do the exact opposite'.

    This change means all modes are not equal. The case can be made that it was a dumb thing for them to even try to spin that line in the first place... but spin it they did, and by and large they've stuck to it. But now? They say the BGS won't be affected, i.e. that it'll still remain active across all modes. If they've fundamentally gone back on their word before, who's to say what they'll backtrack on next? It's not ostensibly a major issue right now, but it does erode trust in a developer, and it's stuff like that which does turn people off supporting and engaging with an IP.

  6. #81
    Originally Posted by Fray View Post (Source)
    8<snip>8
    On a side note, but potentially even more important; projects evolve, sure, and Elite's iterative nature is one of its selling points (even if it iterates a bit clumsily, and at a glacial pace). But if/when Powerplay does go Open-only, then FDev will have set a precedent; 'we say one thing, but eventually do the exact opposite'.

    This change means all modes are not equal. The case can be made that it was a dumb thing for them to even try to spin that line in the first place... but spin it they did, and by and large they've stuck to it. But now? They say the BGS won't be affected, i.e. that it'll still remain active across all modes. If they've fundamentally gone back on their word before, who's to say what they'll backtrack on next? It's not ostensibly a major issue right now, but it does erode trust in a developer, and it's stuff like that which does turn people off supporting and engaging with an IP.
    You nailed what's bothering me on the head.

    I bought this game on the basis of whatever I wanted to do, I could do in whatever mode I wanted.

    I spend some of my time in Open, some in PG, based on my connection status (and before people say get better internet, when I'm in private it's because I'm on my laptop, wirelessly connected to my phone. The connection speed caps at less than 1M, and I've tried that in open. lets just say the results were unpleasant.)

    Right now, I can do anything I want in either mode. If/when PP goes open only, well, at that point I can't do anything I want in either mode (disclaimer, I've not touched PP to date). And now I can't trust FDev to not make the rest of the game open only, because they have gone DIRECTLY back on what I bought the game as.

  7. #82
    I was all for the idea but read something disconserting. Unfortunately my support for the open only powerplay idea is withdrawn.

    Their are players who play on xbox without gold subscription and if this idea goes ahead those players lose access to a feature they have paid for and previously had access to. That is not fair. No matter how you try to justify this, its not fair on them.

  8. #83
    Originally Posted by GODofDUTY83 View Post (Source)
    I was all for the idea but read something disconserting. Unfortunately my support for the open only powerplay idea is withdrawn.

    Their are players who play on xbox without gold subscription and if this idea goes ahead those players lose access to a feature they have paid for and previously had access to. That is not fair. No matter how you try to justify this, its not fair on them.
    There are a few things that this hits on which made it a selling point, which would no longer be the case if this change occurs.

    This part and down are where issues arise...

    Overhead removal and slight increase to distance cost modifier

    • Overhead upkeep costs are removed making a system’s base profitability static
    • Distance modifier to upkeep is increased to maintain some sense of expansion “gravity”

    Reasoning: Overheads are a way to prevent rampant expansion of powers. However, the cost is very high, as they cause an unavoidable amount of uncertainty when calculating CC at the cycle change, as well as just being another level of complexity. We think it would be better to remove them, increase the distance modifier to upkeep a bit, and live with powers that can expand more, as with the other changes in this package we hope that the result will be much more direct attack and dynamism caused by powers fighting each other.

    Ethos Override

    • Ethos is only checked for the control system and the power
    • If the power and controlling faction share the same superpower the power is always strong against the faction

    Reasoning: this is a fairly straight forward override to ensure that – for example – Federal powers are always strong against federal factions. The other part of this change, to focus ethos on the control system only, is to make the process legible and focus Commanders in the same place, increasing the chance of conflict.

    Missions give Powerplay successes


    • Missions for factions in a system that share a power’s superpower award a number of Powerplay successes when completed
    • The mission type determines how many successes are given
    • Successes can be applied to expansion, opposition, fortification and undermining

    Reasoning: one of the complaints of Powerplay is the limited actions available to support your power. We think that liking, in a very simple manner, missions for aligned factions and Powerplay successes allows Commanders increased variety in an efficient manner. The idea is not to replace the standard Powerplay activities, but to compliment them.

    Open only

    • Powerplay contacts are only available to players in open
    • Powerplay vouchers and commodities are destroyed if a player enters solo or private groups

    Reasoning: We’ve saved the biggest change for last, as making Powerplay Open only goes way beyond the remit of a tweak. We’ve seen this topic discussed many times and we think it’s time we addressed it directly to get as much quality feedback as possible.

    Powerplay is fundamentally about consensual player versus player conflict. We think that pretty much all of the systems and rules would benefit from being played out in Open only, as it would dramatically increase the chance of meeting other pledged players and being able to directly affect the outcomes of power struggles.

  9. #84
    Fdevs have dug their own graves with this.

  10. #85
    Originally Posted by GODofDUTY83 View Post (Source)
    Fdevs have dug their own graves with this.
    They have ruined people's trust in them. They will probably survive the implementation.

    A second reversal on this scale though, that could be problematic.

  11. #86

  12. #87
    Hahaha, this thread is hilarious!

    Look around. Forums, Reddit, Discord, Trello, etc. People who ACTUALLY play Power Play on a consistent basis have been clamoring for a change to Open-Only for literally years.

    Some of you are arguing that Frontier is taking your toys away, but you admit that you don't even use them. I've seen mention of Prismatics and Pack Hounds. Power Play sucks. Neglected feature but wrong way to fix it. But no mention of how Power Play works. We were promised equality across all modes...THAT was the original mistake. Promising to deliver a 1984 single player experience to a 2015 market? Laughable. You can't profit on a game that sells one time to people 40+ years of age. You must engage as many as possible. Kickstarter promises were a mistake. This game should have always been Open.

    And don't give me the Griefer argument. I've been playing Open since Day 1, I have been involved in multi-platform Player Groups, Player Group Wars, built Obsidian Orbital in Kaushpoos (if you were there, you know how that went!). Heck we almost beat Yuri Grom to become the next Power Play character. (Some are still not playing Elite after Frontier handed us a flaming bag of dog poop in the Dangerous Games). I don't even need all my fingers to count how many times I've actually been "griefed". Or even killed by another CMDR. Then again, I also don't get robbed and mugged in real life. Because I avoid those situations.

    There is a very large and invisible meta-game happening inside Elite: Dangerous and most people have no idea. It doesn't effect them. But for those of us who truly do use it, having CMDR's able to manipulate the system from Solo is disastrous.

    What I haven't seen is talk of 5th Columning, Weaponized Expansions, and watching your hard earned systems fall to an invisible army. Whole entire Player Groups who normally play in Open that all move to Solo/PG so they can attack unopposed. Changing BGS ruling system governments to make Power Play triggers more manageable. If you had a Player Group Minor Faction and some Power Play group wants to come in, boot your Faction out of Controlling status just so they don't have to Fortify quite as much...wouldn't you feel like you should be able to see them and have a say in it?

    We are talking about a system that was created specifically for multi-player. Yet this can be circumvented by avoiding Open. And you get the same results. In fact, avoiding Open yields better results, because no one will see you Undermining their Control Systems. You used to get Merits for CMDR kills when in the same specific Power Play combat zones. But no one was ever in them. Why would you be there in Open when you are unstoppable in Solo? There are whole contingents of CMDR's in Mahon, Winters and especially Aisling's camp who do nothing but attack other Powers through Solo/PG because they know it is an exploit.

    Meh, I've ranted too long. I see a bunch of folks who have only dabbled in Power Play and are more worried about their perceived injustice or who want to play a multiplayer game by themselves where they can't be bothered by others.
    Most who actually are involved in Power Play on a significant level, are applauding this change.
    (Obviously generalizing here...)
    In fact I see more people saying they will finally come back to Power Play now than I see people who are saying they will quit. IF it actually happens.

  13. #88
    Once it goes open only I'll jump back into PP it was truly disheartening to watch our hard work go straight down the dunny cause we couldn't even see our first enemies. If that means that players wanting goodies and wanting to help the cause become active targets then so be it.

  14. #89
    *looks down the slope and sees COD in spaceships

  15. #90
    Originally Posted by SCSkunk View Post (Source)
    Hahaha, this thread is hilarious!

    Look around. Forums, Reddit, Discord, Trello, etc. People who ACTUALLY play Power Play on a consistent basis have been clamoring for a change to Open-Only for literally years.

    Some of you are arguing that Frontier is taking your toys away, but you admit that you don't even use them. I've seen mention of Prismatics and Pack Hounds. Power Play sucks. Neglected feature but wrong way to fix it. But no mention of how Power Play works. We were promised equality across all modes...THAT was the original mistake. Promising to deliver a 1984 single player experience to a 2015 market? Laughable. You can't profit on a game that sells one time to people 40+ years of age. You must engage as many as possible. Kickstarter promises were a mistake. This game should have always been Open.

    And don't give me the Griefer argument. I've been playing Open since Day 1, I have been involved in multi-platform Player Groups, Player Group Wars, built Obsidian Orbital in Kaushpoos (if you were there, you know how that went!). Heck we almost beat Yuri Grom to become the next Power Play character. (Some are still not playing Elite after Frontier handed us a flaming bag of dog poop in the Dangerous Games). I don't even need all my fingers to count how many times I've actually been "griefed". Or even killed by another CMDR. Then again, I also don't get robbed and mugged in real life. Because I avoid those situations.

    There is a very large and invisible meta-game happening inside Elite: Dangerous and most people have no idea. It doesn't effect them. But for those of us who truly do use it, having CMDR's able to manipulate the system from Solo is disastrous.

    What I haven't seen is talk of 5th Columning, Weaponized Expansions, and watching your hard earned systems fall to an invisible army. Whole entire Player Groups who normally play in Open that all move to Solo/PG so they can attack unopposed. Changing BGS ruling system governments to make Power Play triggers more manageable. If you had a Player Group Minor Faction and some Power Play group wants to come in, boot your Faction out of Controlling status just so they don't have to Fortify quite as much...wouldn't you feel like you should be able to see them and have a say in it?

    We are talking about a system that was created specifically for multi-player. Yet this can be circumvented by avoiding Open. And you get the same results. In fact, avoiding Open yields better results, because no one will see you Undermining their Control Systems. You used to get Merits for CMDR kills when in the same specific Power Play combat zones. But no one was ever in them. Why would you be there in Open when you are unstoppable in Solo? There are whole contingents of CMDR's in Mahon, Winters and especially Aisling's camp who do nothing but attack other Powers through Solo/PG because they know it is an exploit.

    Meh, I've ranted too long. I see a bunch of folks who have only dabbled in Power Play and are more worried about their perceived injustice or who want to play a multiplayer game by themselves where they can't be bothered by others.
    Most who actually are involved in Power Play on a significant level, are applauding this change.
    (Obviously generalizing here...)
    In fact I see more people saying they will finally come back to Power now than I see people who are saying they will quit. IF it actually happens.

    I think everyone agrees that a change is due for OPEN
    Where everyone doesn't agree is that the change is Forcing gameplay in certain modes and excluding features from others.


    Regardless of what feature it is, the premise of some feedback is centered around bait and switch....feeling like you're loosing features...reading that new developments are being focused in one mode and excluded intentionally out of others and that it seems to point at a direction that will not only impact Power Play but also the Background Simulation which is the larger concern.

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