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Thread: Open only Powerplay proposed.

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by Lloyd Morgan-Moore View Post (Source)
    As someone who enjoys mountain biking my wallet can attest to the costs of this hobby
    He's never come across N+1 I guess

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by Lloyd Morgan-Moore View Post (Source)
    On a more serious note though please do keep discussing the Powerplay proposals and giving your opinions
    Is there a prize for the most ludicrous analogy?

  3. #63
    I don't mind PP going Open-only (and as many of you know, I've passed out a fair share of "Join Mobius" pamphlets in the past). I also find the argument that "it's unfair to console owners due to PS+ requirement" to be lacking. It's kinda a miracle that we even get to interact with players or a shared BGS without a PS+ subscription. That's quite unique, since most "solo" games don't offer a universe shared amongst all players (and cross-platform at that).

    So surprise, I actually agree with the PvPers on this one, and I would even if I didn't have a PS+ account. I do think Frontier needs to move the PP modules to a Tech Broker so they are accessible by everyone. Power-specific modules did more to break the game, by encouraging defections and loyalty-swapping, than it did to help PP anyway.

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Old Duck View Post (Source)
    I don't mind PP going Open-only (and as many of you know, I've passed out a fair share of "Join Mobius" pamphlets in the past). I also find the argument that "it's unfair to console owners due to PS+ requirement" to be lacking. It's kinda a miracle that we even get to interact with players or a shared BGS without a PS+ subscription. That's quite unique, since most "solo" games don't offer a universe shared amongst all players (and cross-platform at that).

    So surprise, I actually agree with the PvPers on this one, and I would even if I didn't have a PS+ account. I do think Frontier needs to move the PP modules to a Tech Broker so they are accessible by everyone. Power-specific modules did more to break the game, by encouraging defections and loyalty-swapping, than it did to help PP anyway.
    Well put. I really hope they understand that feedback and remove the modules. I understand why they did it originally. They want to force people to try every aspect of the game, same with engineers, but enough is enough

  5. #65
    In this iteration of Elite, the Superpowers are not just a background plot device (as in FE2, for example), but much more strongly emphasised - be it in ships, ranks, lore, whatever. Yes, this was in present FE2, but in ED it is much more prominent.

    The Superpowers and figureheads are a great feature, it gives the 'bubble' a lot more life and character. Being able to be involved somehow in the Superpowers, being pledged to some megalomaniac or other, and undertaking tasks that offer a chance to be part of the Superpower meta-drama, really adds a lot to an area in which I feel ED is lacking.

    What exactly is ED is lacking? ED has been built to resemble the Elites of yesteryear, along similar themes (the similarity to many of the FE2 mechanics is striking). But this is 2018, and as modern players we have been spoiled with fantastical and richly realised stories - the industry itself has been transformed from moderately successful industry into towering money machine in two decades, because nothing else comes close for immersion and escapism, not even Hollywood, which the games industry now eclipses by a considerable margin. In perhaps not appreciating how good we've had it as gamers, the old masters of Frontier have been left scratching their heads as to why a formula that worked so well in the 80s and 90s is now missing a beat.

    The new breed of gamer has high expectations, though team shooters, racing, sports game niches are well catered for, it's the big AAA titles that grab everyone's attention, that everyone will either buy or have some exposure to, no matter where their other interests lie. The big star releases, almost invariably, are heavily character and plot driven. They have come to define what a game is in many respects. It's been spoon fed to us, our own imaginations have taken a back seat and we've let the developers do the driving, whisking us along through their amazing creations, and we've loved every minute of it.

    Against this backdrop, Elite is struggling to shine, and FD resist or ignore narrative driven mechanics, in favour of the 'Frontier' formula. Narratives in ED are hard to come by. There's some Thargoid stuff going on, but only really in Galnet and USS, there's some guardian stuff, some powerplay, and some faction stuff. These are all thrown together as a hodgepodge morass, but it's better than nothing.

    Until....... along comes FD with a plan to remove one of the scant few points of engagement that make the galaxy outside of the cockpit feel like it's somehow connected to the experience inside the cockpit from the single player perspective. Not so bad for the PC master race, they can switch modes without having to pay the cost of a new game every year for the privilege, but for the poor cousin single player console jockeys, it's gone... *poof*. And this isn't just one of a few narrative devices that is disappearing, it is the only real connection to the main story arc that has been thrust to the fore - Superpowers.

    If the Superpowers become inconsequential for the PS/XB 1P, so does the bubble, and ultimately the game.

    However, the current fallout over PP is merely a symptom of a deeper problem, and that deeper problem could be solved if all of the disparate threads of great ship models, great flight models, the stellar forge, factions and superpowers could be rolled up and stuffed inside a pinata, and then for someone like Drew Wagar to come along and hit it with a space-opera stick until something incredible falls out.

    FD can do this sort of thing - look at the training missions - there's more sense of being part of something in the training missions that the rest of the game experience combined. Do FD really think that just sticking more widgets in is going to improve anything? Do they not realise that they've built a game out of time. Sheesh.

  6. #66
    Originally Posted by NY09 View Post (Source)
    However, the current fallout over PP is merely a symptom of a deeper problem, and that deeper problem could be solved if all of the disparate threads of great ship models, great flight models, the stellar forge, factions and superpowers could be rolled up and stuffed inside a pinata, and then for someone like Drew Wagar to come along and hit it with a space-opera stick until something incredible falls out.
    It's a shame Drew parted company but I can totally understand why he did. They'd have to get someone on staff and protect them more against the more <ahem>"passionate" members of the community. But it's really needed.

    Originally Posted by NY09 View Post (Source)
    FD can do this sort of thing - look at the training missions - there's more sense of being part of something in the training missions that the rest of the game experience combined.
    That's such a great point. Having popped into the training missions again recently I really noticed this.

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by CMDR labrunning View Post (Source)
    That's such a great point. Having popped into the training missions again recently I really noticed this.
    Yeh thats true you guys both raise a really good point there. There is a much more immersive feel to some of the training scenarios than the full game, but it is blaze your own trail. Maybe the Codex will address this.

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by Latent Buzzard View Post (Source)
    Actually someone in another thread put it better when they said that this is like complaining about not being able to compete in a foot race because you can't kill your competitors.

    You could always oppose people in solo / PG by pushing back harder but the problem is that's not what you wanted to do. What you wanted to do was shoot people. So maybe we can drop the pretense of "we just want to compete" and admit that this is purely about wanting to PvP other people ?

    So is that you condoning the grind? At the same time telling us to play the game your way?

    Correct me if im wrong, but what you are saying is that to oppose another PP group from doing an activity, we should grind the opposit action and play the game your way. Then it just becomes a numbers on a spredsheet game that is so boring. I want to fly my t9 through a blockade and risk death for my power, then If I am killed go get my FDL and fight back. You guys are forever telling us to stop making you play the game our way but in the same breath tell us to play the game your way. I am happy if you stay in solo I am not forcing you to come out of your solo space. Sandro has stated in the PP feedback post and the live stream when PP came out, that PP was supposed to be the PvP aspect of the game, by keeping PP in solo/PG how is PP being PvP?

  9. #69
    Bottom line for me, both ED and PSN have given plenty of bang for my buck.

    I've played since launch and have invested many, many hours into this game, dabbling in just about everything it has to offer. For the hundreds of hours of entertainment I've had so far, I'd say it's pretty good value for money. Even with a PSN subscription, I hardly ever play in open - Elite for me has always been a solo experience (although I do want to change this and start getting involved in some wing missions). Powerplay is of interest to me, but it certainly isn't what defines my ED experience.

    I can understand why some are getting upset about a feature being removed, or becoming conditional on PSN, but things change. Packets of Jaffa cakes get smaller. The world takes a turn.

  10. #70
    So I can understand those worries about issues with PowerPlay becoming open only, my issue lies in the fact that most that take issue with this have never taken the deep dive and fully comprehend just what those sitting in solo/pg can do with a power or do to a power.

    I’ll use an example that is not related to PowerPlay, but to BGS and player factions war. My group recently got caught up in another player factions war as we came to the aid of our allies. One group was in a civil war for control of their system and another was in an election. We were called to be the blockade at the system in war and our allies defended their home turf. There were 2 wings of 4 on each side and it was mayhem. At one point we had em blockaded in their station.

    Our allies were in a fight as well defending from raiding parties in their system. One of the most fun weekends I’ve had in Elite. Not only were we caught up fighting each other, but everyone was fighting to either push up or push down a faction with the BGS. Popping into the system and you see about 16 hollowed our squares on your scanner is a bit of a rush.

    This is what bottlenecking the powers can mean if they change the fort process and move it to open. Then move the modules from powers so people no longer module shop. Combine it with the ideas on voting to eliminate the need for 5c or at least the effectiveness of 5c. The shape of the galaxies will change and I really believe the “immersion” of PowerPlay will go way up.

    How can people be so against that? It’s not about the PvP aspect but the strategy and coordination efforts will have to be doubled. No longer will it come down to who can haul more or who can manage numbers the best in order to lower their fort numbers with the BGS. The universe is beyond static. ZYADA has held hands and sung Koombaya for too long.

    This game is all about introducing cmdrs to different parts of the game. Engineers make you try a little bit of everything. Fed/imp rank make you try the superpowers. PowerPlay was designed to get people to try pvp or open and it hasn’t done that. This change makes that possible. We should embrace change, it means FDev are trying new things.

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    PowerPlay was designed to get people to try pvp or open and it hasnít done that. This change makes that possible.
    So it really is about getting more PvP victims.

    Got it.

  12. #72
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    So it really is about getting more PvP victims.

    Got it.
    Not even close Mr. Mountain, but it would be foolish to suggest it’s not an element of it. I like how you place victims at the end. PowerPlay is warfare or gang warfare for territory. So by clicking on that power you make yourself an enemy of all other powers and the cmdrs that are pledged to that power. Nothing happens in PowerPlay without player interaction. So if I have pledged myself to a opposite power as another cmdr how does that make me a victim?

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    So if I have pledged myself to a opposite power as another cmdr how does that make me a victim?
    By definition, of course: Victim - a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

    I find it interesting that you immediately associate the term with some form of evil or wrongdoing, and bristle at it.

    My point was only that all protestations to the contrary notwithstanding this is about getting more people to accept PvP, wittingly or otherwise. Do keep in mind I was just emphasizing what you wrote.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    By definition, of course: Victim - a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

    I find it interesting that you immediately associate the term with some form of evil or wrongdoing, and bristle at it.

    My point was only that all protestations to the contrary notwithstanding this is about getting more people to accept PvP, wittingly or otherwise. Do keep in mind I was just emphasizing what you wrote.
    Well by volunteering for the action against them they aren’t exactly a victim. I’ve discussed things enough on these forums to know your stance and to immediately bristle. While I disagree this is aimed solely at getting people to participate in PvP, I do believe PvP is a part of PowerPlay.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    Well by volunteering for the action against them they arenít exactly a victim. Iíve discussed things enough on these forums to know your stance and to immediately bristle. While I disagree this is aimed solely at getting people to participate in PvP, I do believe PvP is a part of PowerPlay.
    One can volunteer and still be the victim of injury as a result of an action.

    A guilty conscience can have quite an influence on assumptions.

    FDev has stated that they intended Powerplay to be a PvP activity. How can that happen if players are in private groups that have banned PvP? Of course it should be in open. I'm just trying to be honest about something many seem to not want to be honest about. Why should honesty trigger so many people?

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