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Thread: Open only Powerplay proposed.

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Spoil-t View Post (Source)
    It's just people being entitled to their 1st World Problems.
    The first world has fancy high speed internets and is rolling in moolah!

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Alonya Ruslana View Post (Source)
    Alonya / Un1k0rn, I appreciate what you are trying to do. You have reposted Sandroís proposal in both the Xbox and PS4 sub forums in order to gain the support of the console community.

    However, the problem isnít the same as on the PC.

    The PS4 community is a lot fresher to Elite than the either PC or Xbox, we havenít even been going a year and as such, donít have the same tail of experienced users.
    PS4, Xbox and PC players donít overlap. There is no inter-dependency between one, all or none being on open. Unless Sony are going to announce crossplay at this yearís E3, itís not going to change soon.
    Also, Sony have a PS+ paywall to allow access to Open that isnít present for accessing Solo.

    As I have said in the main discussion threads on the subject, if the move is to try to beef up PvP, then PowerPlay moving to Open only is not the answer. Six of the Eleven Powers donít have any PvP tied to their expansion / influence mechanic.
    Beefing up / changing / replacing CQC would be a better way of servicing the PvPers.

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by Snowymonk View Post (Source)
    Alonya / Un1k0rn, I appreciate what you are trying to do. You have reposted Sandroís proposal in both the Xbox and PS4 sub forums in order to gain the support of the console community.

    However, the problem isnít the same as on the PC.

    The PS4 community is a lot fresher to Elite than the either PC or Xbox, we havenít even been going a year and as such, donít have the same tail of experienced users.
    PS4, Xbox and PC players donít overlap. There is no inter-dependency between one, all or none being on open. Unless Sony are going to announce crossplay at this yearís E3, itís not going to change soon.
    Also, Sony have a PS+ paywall to allow access to Open that isnít present for accessing Solo.

    As I have said in the main discussion threads on the subject, if the move is to try to beef up PvP, then PowerPlay moving to Open only is not the answer. Six of the Eleven Powers donít have any PvP tied to their expansion / influence mechanic.
    Beefing up / changing / replacing CQC would be a better way of servicing the PvPers.
    However I think you miss the issue entirely when it relates to PowerPlay. Itís not about being a PvP envireoment. Itís about the politics. This allows you a better way to defend or expand your territory. To complain about a paywall is ridiculous as every other game has a paywall. We all have to pay for online services.

    Originally Posted by AlphaOne35 View Post (Source)
    There is a difference between removing content from a mode, and updating how an aspect of the game works. Plus terms of service rarely hold up in a court, companies rely on people not being able to afford to challenge them. Fdev advertised that all content would be accesible across all modes regardless of what tos says if they change that then people are absolutely entitled to a refund. This whole games as evolving service is eventually going to get govt. to intervene to protect consumers in the same way that they've started to with loot boxes.
    While there is a difference games and companies as an overall has a legal department that will protect them from this environment. They have suggested nothing that breaches their contract with you as a gamer. Your lack of knowledge with a business contract suggests this. The govt can only protect you to the letter of the law and in this instance it doesnít protect you.

    Originally Posted by Bob Lighthouse View Post (Source)
    What is up with people misusing that term about this?
    No, it is not.
    Definition: A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man

    In relation to the comment replying to this applies. We are pointing out how itís a straw man argument. In the situation tracing through the comments it is. He is attacking something that was not presented. I simply pointed out why the argument was wrong and that it is a straw man arguemnt

  4. #34
    Having read through a few threads on this I'm not sure how people think this will increase player numbers in pp!? I've read far more solo/pg only players refusing to switch and then the very real loss of numbers from console players who will lose access unless they pay :/ I doubt a handful of players saying they'll return will make up for that.

    I only hope this doesn't creep into other activities within elites game modes and pp modules are removed from rewards and offered at trade brokers.

  5. #35
    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    However I think you miss the issue entirely when it relates to PowerPlay. It’s not about being a PvP envireoment. It’s about the politics. This allows you a better way to defend or expand your territory. To complain about a paywall is ridiculous as every other game has a paywall. We all have to pay for online services.
    That's one argument, the other being that while PP has been part of the PS4 experience from day one, its now being moved behind a pay wall. Its not really good form for any company to do this in my opinion. Sure game features change and stuff happens but moving PP from free to play (if you own horizons) to now behind PS+ is poor form from FDev who don't sometimes seem to consider the console players at all it seems generally.

    Having said all that I am meh about the whole thing, I very rarely get involved in PP apart from to get the items, so it probably wouldn't affect me personal, I generally play Open anyway and I have PS+ and for my actual time doing PP stuff its limited so I would survive and I am sure find somewhere to get my merits unmolested.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Snowymonk View Post (Source)
    Alonya / Un1k0rn, I appreciate what you are trying to do. You have reposted Sandro’s proposal in both the Xbox and PS4 sub forums in order to gain the support of the console community.

    However, the problem isn’t the same as on the PC.

    The PS4 community is a lot fresher to Elite than the either PC or Xbox, we haven’t even been going a year and as such, don’t have the same tail of experienced users.
    PS4, Xbox and PC players don’t overlap. There is no inter-dependency between one, all or none being on open. Unless Sony are going to announce crossplay at this year’s E3, it’s not going to change soon.
    Also, Sony have a PS+ paywall to allow access to Open that isn’t present for accessing Solo.

    As I have said in the main discussion threads on the subject, if the move is to try to beef up PvP, then PowerPlay moving to Open only is not the answer. Six of the Eleven Powers don’t have any PvP tied to their expansion / influence mechanic.
    Beefing up / changing / replacing CQC would be a better way of servicing the PvPers.
    Undermining.

    Powerplayers want Open only so we can oppose undermining.

  7. #37
    Name one "HOBBY" one can enjoy that is as cheap as a video game. Yes there are expenses, every hobby has expenses. But a 60 dollar a year to maintain one is CHEAP compared to maintaing anyother.

  8. #38
    Interesting one this.

    I understand the 'paywall' arguments, but Frontier have stated clearly that ED is first and foremost a PC game and as they don't have to pay any subscription to play in open/PG it's no surprise they won't lose any sleep on this. As the game progresses through it's 10 year plan I can see more of this type of thing being introduced.

    I've always wondered what Frontier thought about all the time and effort they put into areas of the game that don't really take off. We only have anecdotal evidence of who does or doesn't engage in this, but to me this suggests that they want more people to engage in PP and the biggest complaints (again, anecdotally) is that a lot of players are frustrated about the relatively risk free option of PP in solo. At least my reading of the original thread seemed to indicate most people there were broadly in favour of it. I can appreciate the concerns that this may be the first step in removing solo completely but it may be that moving PP into open will satiate some of the fervent desire to remove solo completely. Who knows. Personally I wouldn't think that solo will ever disappear completely from ED.

    All that being said I only ever tried PP once to get the prismatics and now I don't really use them. I'm only really drawn towards one group at the moment and I can't see them ever going in for any PP so I'll watch with interest but I really don't have a horse in this race.

    That's just my 'two penneth' and many people haven't even been able to start this discussion in a civilised manner so don't hold your breath if you don't like/agree with what I said and want to argue pointlessly for days.

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Nemo LXXI View Post (Source)
    Name one "HOBBY" one can enjoy that is as cheap as a video game. Yes there are expenses, every hobby has expenses. But a 60 dollar a year to maintain one is CHEAP compared to maintaing anyother.
    That is totally besides the point.

    Sure if PP was open only from the get-go then yes it would be hard to moan about it, however!! having it for months and then them putting it behind he PS+ paywall is quite ridiculous and a stupid move. I really hope they reconsider because I for one will not suddenly pony up £50 to join PS+ and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by Cmdr Nemo LXXI View Post (Source)
    Name one "HOBBY" one can enjoy that is as cheap as a video game. Yes there are expenses, every hobby has expenses. But a 60 dollar a year to maintain one is CHEAP compared to maintaing anyother.
    Running
    Cycling
    Trail walking
    Swimming
    Kayaking
    Train / plane spotting
    Reading
    Playing a musical instrument

    You can go on for a very long time. Yes gaming can be good value for money but let's try and stay away from hyperbole.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Alonya Ruslana View Post (Source)
    Undermining.

    Powerplayers want Open only so we can oppose undermining.
    I will remind you that PC / Xbox and PS4 cannot see each other so whatever I do on the PS4 will be masked from you on PC.
    I support Aisling Duval and have been since the turn of the year. I take part in some active community (non platform) PP sites that coordinate what and where we need to focus our efforts.

    At no stage do I need to be in open to counter the systems that are targeted for undermining.

    Moving to open only doesn’t help me and if I was to lose out by flipping between open and PG I would probably stop PP. I value my fellow PG players over PP

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by Snowymonk View Post (Source)
    I will remind you that PC / Xbox and PS4 cannot see each other so whatever I do on the PS4 will be masked from you on PC.
    I support Aisling Duval and have been since the turn of the year. I take part in some active community (non platform) PP sites that coordinate what and where we need to focus our efforts.

    At no stage do I need to be in open to counter the systems that are targeted for undermining.

    Moving to open only doesn’t help me and if I was to lose out by flipping between open and PG I would probably stop PP. I value my fellow PG players over PP
    The issue in its entirety is botting is a severe issue and only occurs in solo/pg. you also have the issue of 5c hauling peeps and such to poor systems in solo/pg. The powers want to counteract this. Almost all of leadership amongst the powers are in favor of the changes. If you value your fellow PG players that’s fine. You can still be effective running missions that support that factions. You just won’t earn merits outside of open.

    If you coordinate with those on other platforms you should see the benefit then of this. You can all focus your efforts on finding who is working against you in a system. You should also see how this can impact the negative part of PowerPlay. If it’s not that interesting then maybe BGS politics with PMFs are more your style. That’s cool. But how can open negatively impact your PowerPlay when it’s designed to be confrontational?

  13. #43
    Doing PowerPlay in solo or Private Group is like having someone repeatedly stabbing you in the kidney and you can nothing to stop them. Having it Open only means you can save your kidney and stab their's in retaliation.

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by Spoil-t View Post (Source)
    Doing PowerPlay in solo or Private Group is like having someone repeatedly stabbing you in the kidney and you can nothing to stop them. Having it Open only means you can save your kidney and stab their's in retaliation.
    Actually someone in another thread put it better when they said that this is like complaining about not being able to compete in a foot race because you can't kill your competitors.

    You could always oppose people in solo / PG by pushing back harder but the problem is that's not what you wanted to do. What you wanted to do was shoot people. So maybe we can drop the pretense of "we just want to compete" and admit that this is purely about wanting to PvP other people ?

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by Latent Buzzard View Post (Source)
    Actually someone in another thread put it better when they said that this is like complaining about not being able to compete in a foot race because you can't kill your competitors.

    You could always oppose people in solo / PG by pushing back harder but the problem is that's not what you wanted to do. What you wanted to do was shoot people. So maybe we can drop the pretense of "we just want to compete" and admit that this is purely about wanting to PvP other people ?
    Except this is very poor analogy. This is like running a foot race and then after the race being told someone in a different reality ran faster than you so you lost.

    But enough with terrible analogies. By stating such you prove your lack of understanding in regards to PowerPlay. PowerPlay is politics and conflict. By creating these instances across the modes you remove the conflict and allow in its current iteration people the ability to work against the power they are pledged to. With the current set up turret boats parked in war zones were able to sit unabated and rack up merits with no one at the controls. You had bots actively running continuously in the solace of private or solo actively prepping bad systems or running forts.

    With the current set up it was more effective to join a power you oppose and actively work against them than it was to declare for your power and work to better the standing of your power. This is way more dentrimental to console players because they are at a disadvantage being unable to make use of such cheats.

    To sum up, please let’s drop the pretense that you understand PowerPlay and actively engage in it when you claim it’s simply PvP players clamoring for pvp, it shows a lack of understanding and knowledge.

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