Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 76 to 86 of 86

Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.
Thread: Open only Powerplay proposed.

  1. #76
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    One can volunteer and still be the victim of injury as a result of an action.

    A guilty conscience can have quite an influence on assumptions.

    FDev has stated that they intended Powerplay to be a PvP activity. How can that happen if players are in private groups that have banned PvP? Of course it should be in open. I'm just trying to be honest about something many seem to not want to be honest about. Why should honesty trigger so many people?
    If implying I have a guilty conscience you couldn’t be further from the truth. As for the honesty part, I find your stance a breath of fresh air in comparison of our usual conversations.

    I believe it triggers people because most view this as they simply want people to shoot or they want more people to grief. Where if you ask the people that actually do PowerPlay that’s not really the objective. While it will make the activities of PowerPlay more entertaining having to do it in open, it really for most PPers is a check against most of the exploits that take place that ruin the galactic politics.

    I think the PvP connotation gets thrown around very loosely in these forums and it is usually meant as a derogatory comment to label someone and hence my defensive nature against such a term. As I’ve said throughout this thread I really haven’t been in many pvp scenarios and not ones I’ve come out on top of.

  2. #77
    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    If implying I have a guilty conscience you couldnít be further from the truth. As for the honesty part, I find your stance a breath of fresh air in comparison of our usual conversations.
    I believe you never understood my "stance". The moderators didn't let the discussion(s) get that far. Threads were closed, chains got pulled. Key points never got stated, at very least not clearly, which is doubtless my fault. This, however, is not the thread for that discussion. I'll be happy to explain in a PM if you don't mind.

    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    I believe it triggers people because most view this as they simply want people to shoot or they want more people to grief. Where if you ask the people that actually do PowerPlay thatís not really the objective. While it will make the activities of PowerPlay more entertaining having to do it in open, it really for most PPers is a check against most of the exploits that take place that ruin the galactic politics.
    While many may believe that this will be a check against "exploits", I do not see how it can actually be the case. In that there are three platforms that do not intermix, and instancing issues on top of that, there's simply no way for someone on, for example, Windows to stop someone on PS4 from blowing up their stuff. Then there's the unfortunate fact that people can be on the same platform and still not be able to see each other even though they are in the same place at the same time. Forcing all Powerplayers into open won't resolve any of this. All that hard work will still be able to be destroyed by someone you can't see, much less stop.

    Originally Posted by Curvemn17 View Post (Source)
    I think the PvP connotation gets thrown around very loosely in these forums and it is usually meant as a derogatory comment to label someone and hence my defensive nature against such a term. As Iíve said throughout this thread I really havenít been in many pvp scenarios and not ones Iíve come out on top of.
    I'm sure you understand that there are two very distinct forms of PvP: Consensual PvP and non-Consensual PvP. Many seem to automatically assume non-Consensual. That's their shortcoming not mine, nor likely yours. Powerplay is Consensual by nature. One must sign up, thus giving consent. In fact, Powerplay seems to be pretty much ALL PvP even if one never fires a shot at anyone else. (One acronym, so many meanings.) I fail to see how that's possible outside of open.

  3. #78
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    I believe you never understood my "stance". The moderators didn't let the discussion(s) get that far. Threads were closed, chains got pulled. Key points never got stated, at very least not clearly, which is doubtless my fault. This, however, is not the thread for that discussion. I'll be happy to explain in a PM if you don't mind.



    While many may believe that this will be a check against "exploits", I do not see how it can actually be the case. In that there are three platforms that do not intermix, and instancing issues on top of that, there's simply no way for someone on, for example, Windows to stop someone on PS4 from blowing up their stuff. Then there's the unfortunate fact that people can be on the same platform and still not be able to see each other even though they are in the same place at the same time. Forcing all Powerplayers into open won't resolve any of this. All that hard work will still be able to be destroyed by someone you can't see, much less stop.



    I'm sure you understand that there are two very distinct forms of PvP: Consensual PvP and non-Consensual PvP. Many seem to automatically assume non-Consensual. That's their shortcoming not mine, nor likely yours. Powerplay is Consensual by nature. One must sign up, thus giving consent. In fact, Powerplay seems to be pretty much ALL PvP even if one never fires a shot at anyone else. (One acronym, so many meanings.) I fail to see how that's possible outside of open.
    I think I’m beginning to understand your position and I agree with a lot of what you said. Especially the last paragraph, I wish more would understand that or st least give PP the chance to understand that position.

    As for the exploits, while it won’t eliminate all. It will help to curb a lot of them. The PC has been suffering from botting a lot lately and they can see them, but once targeted the code makes the bot log and goto solo/pg. Plus, the issue with the Healy turretboats in a zone UM can be put to a stop. Most wont rubberband their controller and walk away in open.

    The different platform is a little trickier, but not too tricky. For example, I’m with Delaine and we coordinate cmdrs across all platforms. We are one of the smallest powers as far as cmdr wise and we are pretty good at finding the open UM in our area. Especially once you figure out what’s being hit. This is even easier for those with larger groups that can coordinate across platforms.

    So while it doesn’t curb all, I believe the open coupled with the other proposals will either eliminate or reduce 5c. Honestly, that’s all powerplayers want. Curb 5c, it’s not really about the UM or forging aspects in open. We want to stop 5c and terrible expansions from happening.

  4. #79

  5. #80
    Originally Posted by CMDR labrunning View Post (Source)
    Guys what the heck is 5c?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column

  6. #81
    Ah ha! I see what you mean now. There's clandestine and CLANDESTINE.

  7. #82
    Originally Posted by CMDR labrunning View Post (Source)
    Ah ha! I see what you mean now. There's clandestine and CLANDESTINE.
    Yup, I’m all for some clandestine; however, in its current iteration it’s much more effective to work against your own power as 5c than it is to actually use the current mechanics as they were intended.

  8. #83
    How do you think moving Powerplay to open only will stop or in any way effectively alter the possibility of fifth column activities?

  9. #84
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    How do you think moving Powerplay to open only will stop or in any way effectively alter the possibility of fifth column activities?
    You can’t veiw 5c or PowerPlay as a console specific issue but a game one. The largest issue with 5c have been bots. Bots are active on PC and they fly in straight lines, don’t defend themselves. So if they can’t log once they are targeted anymore. This can help eliminate 5c. You can also find the expansions that are being prepped and blockade them on each platform. Once you find which platform 5c is on then everyone else can move on.

    Open only isn’t the only solution to this. It has to be combined with the other ideas proposed. Adversely the other proposals lose their effectiveness against 5c if you don’t go with open only.

    Don get me wrong, there will always be those that find work arounds etc, but if it cuts down 85% of 5c then smaller groups especially will have a chance. To add to it, it can’t hurt to try it. PP with the amount of bad expansions lately being prepped by 5c for powers has taken a significant hit. Kumo is beyond frustrated. We have a public channel where those from Antal and other powers have openly complained about the impact of 5c lately. Mahon has a huge reddit post on it. Most of the dedicated PP players have given this a vote of confidence. If they are the ones that are doing it and others that are not just complain it’s a dead option or a broken one then I say go for it. Give the PP what they want and maybe others get back into it.

  10. #85
    I really don't get it. Fifth Column activities exist in the real world. They are possible in pretty much any political environment. Why shouldn't they be possible in-game? Frontier has created a game wherein one can be good, evil, or any point between, pretty much like in real life. This seems like an extension of that to me.

    Are these "bots" of which you speak a background program on Windows? If so, I'd say they should be a no-no, though I have no idea how open would stop it or how FDev could catch and stop it.

    For me, all of this is entirely academic. I read through the in game descriptions of the powers and found them all to be utterly vile in some manner. Admittedly I might have missed something, but I do not care to expend the effort to find out. A player faction is pushing the envelope of interaction for me. I did enjoy winging up with one of the faction members and driving two Majestic class ships from a CZ last night, so I suppose anything is possible.

  11. #86
    Originally Posted by Bummer View Post (Source)
    I really don't get it. Fifth Column activities exist in the real world. They are possible in pretty much any political environment. Why shouldn't they be possible in-game? Frontier has created a game wherein one can be good, evil, or any point between, pretty much like in real life. This seems like an extension of that to me.

    Are these "bots" of which you speak a background program on Windows? If so, I'd say they should be a no-no, though I have no idea how open would stop it or how FDev could catch and stop it.

    For me, all of this is entirely academic. I read through the in game descriptions of the powers and found them all to be utterly vile in some manner. Admittedly I might have missed something, but I do not care to expend the effort to find out. A player faction is pushing the envelope of interaction for me. I did enjoy winging up with one of the faction members and driving two Majestic class ships from a CZ last night, so I suppose anything is possible.
    Completely understandable. My PmF duties have taken up some of my time iI usually devote to Pp as well.

    The bots are suppose to be a no-no and something FDev bans the account temporarily if caught. Some pc players buy accounts when they go on sale on steam etc and then they set up a background program to run them. They fill up and then create bad expansions. A bit running all day can at all times out perform any human working against it. Then add up the number of them.

    5c will always be a thing. What I’m suggesting about 5c is that PowerPlay players spend more time pledged to the wrong powers in order to oppose their bad expansions that 5c has created. If that’s how 5c is suppose to work I say it’s broken. I haven’t been pledged to delaine in 2 months because they have needed me to kill and oppose delaine expansions. This is the same for other powers. This has killed PowerPlay a lot lately for a lot of the dedicated players. I’ve seen some that have been heavily involved with power management and in direct contact finally leave after 3 years of it.

    There is a lot of opportunity with it, just needs some tweaks

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456