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Thread: Sick and tired that Solo players get treated like second class citizen

  1. #466
    Haha, and this is what we are talking about.....now more ideas will come out of the woodwork and who knows which ones Fdev in their great wisdom will cling on to next......

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ricted-to-Open!

    Thread is titled: Not Just PowerPlay Actions should be restricted to Open!

  2. #467
    The problem I have with open is that nobody fights fair. I'll be flying solo and then a full wing will interdict me. It wouldn't be an issue if that just meant dying, but there are serious setbacks involved with dying.

    If frontier wants people to quit combat logging they need to make PvP encounters just reset you to your last checkpoint. No pilot or credit loss, just missions and cargo (again, when pvp).

    Of course it could be a setting so hardcore players still can risk it all.

  3. #468
    Originally Posted by CMDR MadRaptor View Post (Source)
    Haha, and this is what we are talking about.....now more ideas will come out of the woodwork and who knows which ones Fdev in their great wisdom will cling on to next......

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ricted-to-Open!

    Thread is titled: Not Just PowerPlay Actions should be restricted to Open!
    The BGS makes no sense to be open only. That is why it will never happen.

  4. #469
    Originally Posted by jasonbirder View Post (Source)
    Well currently its ONE Feature...but presumably once PP has gone open only, the same vocal PvP minority will Clamour for BGS/PMFs/CGs to go Open only too...
    (What's that? A twelve page Forum thread "Not just Powerplay Actions Should be restricted to Open" surely NOT)
    Its a substantial U-Turn from the "All Modes Are Equal" statement that FDev has always espoused isn't it???
    Originally Posted by Lucian667 View Post (Source)
    Today its only for PP, tomorrow it will be for something else and Solo will be gradually eroded into oblivion as has been ongoing for years. Even if you are in solo mode, you currently cant open a mission board anywhere in the galaxy without most of it being choked with wing missions. Its a very slippery slope and it violates their word that all modes are equal when they restrict content to only one mode. Its nothing less than a breach of trust.
    "Tinfoil resupply required on aisle 5! Some crazies have bought the whole stock!"

    Powerplay is the only game activity that FDev have consistently described as Player vs Player conflict gameplay.

    The three modes have never been equal, that's a misconception:

    • Michael Brookes: "all game modes are equally valid options"
    • Solo has Super High-Res screenshots (since release).
    • Open and Group have Wings (since v1.2), Player-Refueling (since v1.3), and Multicrew (since v2.3).
    • Open has non-consensual Piracy (since release), and super-engineered gank squads (since v2.1).

    The BGS, PMFs, and CGs, meanwhile don't make any sense to become "Open Only", so simply won't be.

  5. #470
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    The BGS makes no sense to be open only. That is why it will never happen.

    True but who knows what other ideas for OPEN only might pop up and Fdev might latch on to. That's the point and some can say that, well that just wont happen it doesn't make sense and I would have to point to one of my last posts that quoted Mengy, people will always find a way to cheat the system. Some of the examples he used:


    • Console players would need to pay a monthly fee to participate in the PP content.
    • Each platform is in its own server, so the PS/Xbox/PC players can never meet each other, even if they are all in Open. PP players still won’t see most of the other PP players, so it’s not solving anything.
    • By simply blocking other PP players a pilot can play PP in Open essentially alone anyway, this easily defeats the intent of the change.
    • By using some router settings a PP player can easily turn their Open into Solo anyway, again defeating the intent of this.
    • A lot of solo and PG players participate in PP, and a lot of them will not switch to Open, they would rather give up on PP instead. I’m not sure if excluding paying customers from content they enjoy is a wise move for Frontier.


    So really if nothing changes in the end or more workarounds will happen then is it really necessary to segregate this feature instead of working on way to balance it across all modes.

  6. #471
    It seems like this argument boils down to people wanting powerplay to go open only because of the fact that solo/pg players can affect things without being harrased.


    So why is that we need to eliminate a feature from modes to fix that problem, there has to be a way to balance things. A better way to discover and eliminate bots is one step, and perhaps different rewards and impact factors for those playing in the different modes. I feel like instead of just cutting the mode we need to open a discussion on ways to balance instead of this discussion on whether or not we cut the feature from modes.

  7. #472
    Originally Posted by CMDR MadRaptor View Post (Source)
    It seems like this argument boils down to people wanting powerplay to go open only because of the fact that solo/pg players can affect things without being harrased.


    So why is that we need to eliminate a feature from modes to fix that problem, there has to be a way to balance things. A better way to discover and eliminate bots is one step, and perhaps different rewards and impact factors for those playing in the different modes. I feel like instead of just cutting the mode we need to open a discussion on ways to balance instead of this discussion on whether or not we cut the feature from modes.
    PvP cargo cutter costs 800kk and needs engineering and three more combat PvP cutters worth 1400kk each and fully engineered. And they still can fail, and they would spend more time in any case.
    For PvE, you need D-rated T9 for each of wing members. And they can fail only if they will fall asleep cause of boredom.

    How do you want to balancd this out? Decrease efficiency of PvE actions by 99%? Including that for unlocking personal progression rewards?
    And if maximum efficiency would stay in PvE, this activity would still be PvE. Cause why try harder for the same result? And that is the theme of a whole game with this stupid "equality" in treatement of different things.

    And did you read OP of thas thread? It does not make sense for UA griefing to become Open only as well?

  8. #473
    Originally Posted by Red Anders View Post (Source)
    About three quarters of this thread is so embarrassing I'm reading it through my fingers whilst squirming in my chair.
    Same statement can be applied for most threads on this board.

  9. #474
    Originally Posted by CMDR EDGEL0RD View Post (Source)
    PvP cargo cutter costs 800kk and needs engineering and three more combat PvP cutters worth 1400kk each and fully engineered. And they still can fail, and they would spend more time in any case.
    For PvE, you need D-rated T9 for each of wing members. And they can fail only if they will fall asleep cause of boredom.

    How do you want to balancd this out? Decrease efficiency of PvE actions by 99%? Including that for unlocking personal progression rewards?
    And if maximum efficiency would stay in PvE, this activity would still be PvE. Cause why try harder for the same result? And that is the theme of a whole game with this stupid "equality" in treatement of different things.

    And did you read OP of this thread? It does not make sense for UA griefing to become Open only as well?
    Indeed. The bottom line is that powerplay is fundamentally meant to be a multiplayer activity. It makes no sense for it to be playable in solo so that people can avoid PvP in what is the only semblance of competitive gameplay that exists.

  10. #475
    Originally Posted by Elethiomel Zakalwe View Post (Source)
    Indeed. The bottom line is that powerplay is fundamentally meant to be a multiplayer activity. It makes no sense for it to be playable in solo so that people can avoid PvP in what is the only semblance of competitive gameplay that exists.
    Exactly. When engaging in Powerplay, that person is willingly and directly competing with other players. What sense does it make to have them do it in singleplayer?

  11. #476
    Originally Posted by CMDR MadRaptor View Post (Source)
    I was just commenting on your never being ganked and your statement that if i'm paying attention or not putting myself in harms way I have nothing to worry about. I know I can still do all that in solo and I do and will, again what I was saying is that your experience in open is not the only experience people have...obviously.
    I don't take issue with that. I have used solo to do things like take screenshots where I would rather not be disturbed as well. However the vast majority of my gameplay is in open and I'm only saying that the people fretting about not being able to do powerplay in solo are being unreasonable. The only time I take issue with solo/pg is when it is used to bypass the multiplayer part of a fundamentally multiplayer mechanic (such as powerplay).

  12. #477
    Think it is important to note that PvP doesn't just encompass actual combat between pilots. PP PvP also encompasses the hauling wars, the undermining fights between combat pilots and haulers, etc. With that, it is completely short-sighted design to be able to do "PvP" in solo or PG in the first place.

  13. #478
    Originally Posted by Brian of Earth View Post (Source)
    In other words, "if a solo ED player falls out of his gaming chair, does FDEV hear it?"

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Basically I agree with the three modes thing. However, PP should have never been available to solo/PG players. Right out of the box the whole concept of PP got tossed out the window the first time a solo/PG player signed up for a power.

    Note that I've never signed up for a power and PP never has interested me at all, but, PP should only be available to players that can be opposed by ANY player in any opposing power.. or it's just a joke.
    Except instancing ruins that fairytale.

  14. #479
    Originally Posted by StuartGT View Post (Source)
    "Tinfoil resupply required on aisle 5! Some crazies have bought the whole stock!"

    Powerplay is the only game activity that FDev have consistently described as Player vs Player conflict gameplay.

    The three modes have never been equal, that's a misconception:

    • Michael Brookes: "all game modes are equally valid options"
    • Solo has Super High-Res screenshots (since release).
    • Open and Group have Wings (since v1.2), Player-Refueling (since v1.3), and Multicrew (since v2.3).
    • Open has non-consensual Piracy (since release), and super-engineered gank squads (since v2.1).

    The BGS, PMFs, and CGs, meanwhile don't make any sense to become "Open Only", so simply won't be.
    Pointlessly cheap Ad hom aside, yes it is a misconception, but its not a misconception that anybody is arguing for. The obvious difference is that ALL of the mode specific things you listed were introduced that way from the beginning and are not about to be changed to exclude one or more modes after literally YEARS of allowing equal access to all modes. That's why we're buying up all the tinfoil, because game content - namely Power Play - which has been freely available to solo and private group players since its very introduction is now about to be excluded in a patch from use by customers who already paid for the game years ago unless they use a specific mode. That is not a trivial move.

    If it can be rationalized for PP it can also be rationalized for absolutely any game feature especially all the ones you are so sure it would never touch. Look to Stellaris recent reviews to see what cutting game content in a fully mature game can do to your ratings.

    I cant speak for others, but personally I wouldn't be anywhere near as annoyed if an entirely new open-specific PP feature or features were introduced while leaving existing PP mechanics intact. Its the further erosion of solo mode - in this case actual removal of existing game content - that I really object to. I agree that PP is a mess but there must be a better way to fix things than by screwing solo players over even more than they already have been by making almost every new feature MP or PVP specific.

  15. #480
    Originally Posted by CMDR MadRaptor View Post (Source)
    It seems like this argument boils down to people wanting powerplay to go open only because of the fact that solo/pg players can affect things without being harrased.


    So why is that we need to eliminate a feature from modes to fix that problem, there has to be a way to balance things. A better way to discover and eliminate bots is one step, and perhaps different rewards and impact factors for those playing in the different modes. I feel like instead of just cutting the mode we need to open a discussion on ways to balance instead of this discussion on whether or not we cut the feature from modes.
    All of that.

    If it really is driven by the Solo effect, you have to ban console players from PP as well. PC users are the bigger group and can not affect what the console users are doing.

    This premise, while a relevant parallel...is of course utterly absurd. Very much like the whole idea of PP being limited to Open.

    Design Team gone full retard for even suggesting it. The practicalities over real time gameplay if it's done, will make immersion and the narrative a joke. The tangible effect on technical solutions will create a meaningful technical debt moving forward, leading to a rise in operational cost.

    It's essentially a waste of time debating this latest suggestion, as it will never happen.

    A different discussion will come along at some point, if there are any plans to further develop Powerplay.

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