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Thread: Powerplay should not be made Open-only. Here's why... [EDITED]

  1. #211
    Originally Posted by Sterling MH View Post (Source)
    Nope. The post links back to the original so it can be seen. And theres a reason why the post decorum is to not keep nesting back to the OP in replies: it means there's redundant noninformation making the signal impossible to read.

    You DO know what it means when it says "(Source)", right?



    Ah, so when someone breaks into your house and changes the contents of it to contain less of it, you shrug your shoulders and go "Well, can't halt change, can we?"

    No. No, not even you buy that hogwash. Oddly enough, neither does anyone else when you use it on them
    A developer making decisions about the way their game works, has nothing to do with home invasion.

    I don't own elite. I have paid for access to it. Much like a hotel. It would be odd for a hotel not to service rooms. Or fix faulty lighting or remove an item from the room that was faulty.

    Assuming elite is your home, and you must defend it is most noble. But is not your home. Or mine. We just rent rooms from frontier.

    That it can feel like home though? That's a testament to when frontier can manage to build good things. And maintain them.

  2. #212
    Originally Posted by Ralph Vargr View Post (Source)
    The sonic boom is just now coming in...
    I laughed...twice.

  3. #213
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    A developer making decisions about the way their game works, has nothing to do with home invasion.

    I don't own elite. I have paid for access to it. Much like a hotel. It would be odd for a hotel not to service rooms. Or fix faulty lighting or remove an item from the room that was faulty.

    Assuming elite is your home, and you must defend it is most noble. But is not your home. Or mine. We just rent rooms from frontier.

    That it can feel like home though? That's a testament to when frontier can manage to build good things. And maintain them.
    Totally agree people seem to get confused about this.. or don't read the EULA

  4. #214
    Originally Posted by Ziljan View Post (Source)
    Power play is currently broken and played primary in Solo PG by a tiny group of players. It is essentially a dead mechanic because of this.

    And almost no one in Solo or PG or even Open would care about PP except that suddenly it has been drawn into the old Open vs Solo debate. Now suddenly everyone is lining up behind old battle lines and very few are seeing the bigger picture.

    The bigger picture is that humans, like all particles in the universe, will always follow the path of least resistance. This is a basic principle of physics and human psychology. Solo/PG is easier, passive, non-competitive, and yet this is also wholly in opposition to the spirit of competition that PP was supposed to support. So is it really surprising that the current "least resistance" path for PP is being in a defecto death-like coma?

    Without direct competition, PP in Solo/PG is like playing chess while opponents pieces are invisible. PP needs to be Open for the mechanics to have any meaning, just like chess pieces need to be visible for chess to have any meaning.
    I don't see the value in making current content PVP exclusive when instead it could be made to make more sense in the game as a whole and without removing game content and relevance from players regardless of what mode they're in.

    Making Powerplay Open only may fix certain aspects of it when approached in specific ways, but in other ways it completely breaks it by removing it from the game. In that regard, it's curing the disease by killing the patient.

    Tangent anecdote: I found I could play chess in my head in high school with others looking at a board and still win. Not sure how good I'd be at it now, but I'd probably manage alright.

  5. #215
    Originally Posted by WR3ND View Post (Source)
    I don't see the value in making current content PVP exclusive when instead it could be made to make more sense in the game as a whole and without removing game relevance from players regardless of what mode they're in.

    Making Powerplay Open only may fix certain aspects of it when approached in specific ways, but in other ways it completely breaks it by removing it for the game. In that regard, it's curing the diseases by killing the patient.

    Tangent anecdote: I found I could play chess in my head in high school with others looking at a board and still win. Not sure how good I'd be at it now, but I'd probably manage alright.
    You'd still be able to interact with PP via the missions that are being proposed. Voila, powerplay participation for solo/pg players.

  6. #216
    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    That's true - I can't halt any change Frontier want to make - it's their game, not mine.

    I still do have the privilege of pointing out where their intended change may not succeed in its goals, and why. It's up to Frontier to weigh up the pros and cons of the proposed change and to decide, and as someone with some background in IT and programming, I can point out why their game architecture isn't allowing Powerplay to live up to the potential lots of folks think it should or can.

    It'll be interesting to see how things pan out if Frontier go ahead with this change. If I'm wrong, and it all works out as intended, then I've learned from it.
    Yeah I like to tell other people who have a similar profession, which then clearly makes me an expert, that they are wrong all the time too. Even if I have pretty strong knowledge in an area, I tend to not tell people what to do, primarily because there can be any number of contexts I am not aware of.

    Honestly I've given feedback to frontier too. And as I have said, i have concerns as well.

    Yes it will be interesting. They are also under extreme pressure to not make a change that is contentious. And they have people saying this should not happen because I have some feels and also am very smart about this too.

    I think Sandy has a very hard road ahead of him. He's a brave guy. He keeps trying. Not always in ways I agree with. But that's okay. Because he's still trying.

    Cause the alternative is they just roll over and give up after being stymied by endless protest and the game goes into the long tail.

    Edited.

  7. #217
    Originally Posted by Genar-Hofoen View Post (Source)
    Actually I'd welcome an official poll-via-email to all customers with an E: D account, like the last time.

    That'd be way more decisive than the forum bickering

    Besides, even if a vote is that Open-only wins, and it goes ahead, I predict the Powerplay situation stays exactly the same due to the P2P nature of E: D
    Completely agreed.

    I also think any future game changes being presented should first be directed to customer polls then presented in the Feedback Forums second... not the reverse.

    Anyone can make a forum account, but not everyone is actually a customer who has a forum account. (just like anyone can create a Reddit account, but it doesn't mean they're a customer)

  8. #218
    The whole point of contention is that PP started one way, now he's stating that PP is the official way to implement consensual PvP.
    Ie, you play PP, you are consenting to PvP.

  9. #219
    Originally Posted by Sylveria View Post (Source)
    Completely agreed.

    I also think any future game changes being presented should first be directed to customer polls then presented in the Feedback Forums second... not the reverse.
    Indeed. Although building trust should also be focused upon, in order to lend weight to the perceived results of such polls.

  10. #220
    Originally Posted by Sylveria View Post (Source)
    Completely agreed.

    I also think any future game changes being presented should first be directed to customer polls then presented in the Feedback Forums second... not the reverse.

    Anyone can make a forum account, but not everyone is actually a customer who has a forum account. (just like anyone can create a Reddit account, but it doesn't mean they're a customer)
    Not to divert the thread but I don't agree with this point. Regardless of the activity levels here the forums do not represent the majority of the player base. FD should be using their own internal metrics on what parts of the game are being played, what modes, how many people, to guide their areas of focus. I suspect that they already are. Then, player feedback is taken to improve and refine.

  11. #221
    Originally Posted by EUS View Post (Source)
    Ie, you play PP, you are consenting to PvP.
    Since you can't PvP in solo or a PvE PG, if this were true, then nobody outside the PvP groups and Open would be doing PP and there's nothing to deal with. Or it's not true, in which case the argument fails.

  12. #222
    Redomus should be given 100 billion credits and heres why...

    <Insert whine>

    If whine ==1 THEN

    {
    Goto_Start();
    }

  13. #223
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Yeah I like to tell other people who have a similar profession, which then clearly makes me an expert, that they are wrong all the time too.

    Honestly I've given feedback to frontier too. And as I have said, i have concerns as well. But i am not asking them to shove their change because obviously I have better context than they do, despite all the telemetry and multiple feedback channels they have.
    Not sure if that's a snipe at me or not... -.-



    But lol if you think I think I know better than Frontier what their architecture is capable of or not - ask me to come up with Frontier's back-end server architecture and I'd crumple to the ground. All I know is what I discern how the game client connects to both the back-end, and other game clients. Then I see what is being proposed. Then I see how the proposed change can be countered.

    If you are in fact taking a swipe at me in terms of me "thinking I'm smart", or just "trying to win all the things", that makes me a little bit sad because I'm just trying to objectively point out how Powerplay was designed, what was said at the time - both of those are my OP - and now the conversation has turned to game architecture pointing out reasons as to why I think such a change may not be the panacea some think it will.

    I'm definitely not smart - I'm posting stuff in an online gaming forum fer frack's sake

    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    Yes it will be interesting. They are also under extreme pressure to not make a change that is contentious. And they have people saying this should not happen because I have some feels and also am very smart about this too.

    I think Sandy has a very hard road ahead of him. He's a brave guy. He keeps trying. Not always in ways I agree with. But that's okay. Because he's still trying.

    Cause the alternative is they just roll over and give up after being stymied by endless protest and the game goes into the long tail.
    I'm all for change, if the change is worth the development effort involved. What I don't like seeing is dev time being squandered on something which I suspect has a high likelihood of not achieving the goal set out by the change.

  14. #224
    Originally Posted by kofeyh View Post (Source)
    With respect, I am happy to have a civil discussion
    As Ta'lon said, all answers are replies, but not all replies are answers. A discussion requires more than just posting back and forth. An so far I've seen none of that here from you, only "here's my point" "no, here's my point", "no, here's my point". Try a conversation rather than "discussion".

  15. #225
    I'm not having a go. It's just this forum is chock full of experts and it's hard to know when people are being genuine.

    And I have no problem with the developer squandering time on anything that isn't my thing in game. Because it will be someone else's and its exceedingly greedy of me to assume the entire thing should be built on my timetable.

    Its not squandering time to try and improve power play. There have been endless requests and posts and discussion on this.