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Thread: Healing Beams Powerplay exploit

  1. #1

    Healing Beams Powerplay exploit

    Healing beams are broken. You are able to heal whilst taking fire from enemies. This means that PvP is destroyed by using them. (spending 10's of minutes wearing down an HD stacked shield, to just have it healed again is not balanced.

    You are also sustain a combat zone for an *infinite* period of time. This is an exploit for engineering materials, credits, SLF pilot level, reputation and even tens of thousands of Power Play merits.

    Healing beams have:

    - -10% DPS
    - Heals wingmates at a rate double its rated DPS (so effectively 1.8 normal beam lasers' DPS, because it normally does only 90% of a regular beams' damage)
    - Does factor thermal damage resistance into the healing per second calculations
    - Does not factor in SYS pip damage resistance into the healing per second calculations
    - Does not suffer from damage falloff while healing
    - Better for shields without resistances, which advocates for HD booster stack.
    - Better for shields with high cap, which advocates for HD booster stack.
    - Has no counter.

    As you can see, it's blatantly broken.


    As a result, Regeneration Sequence will heal a target with balanced resistances and 4 pips to SYS for (1.8 x 2.5) or 4.5 beams with the same modification, minus regen sequence
    Because this is also a straight "damage increase" the effective DPE is also 4.5x higher than an equivalent beam, and the lack of damage falloff makes LR mods unnecessary for healing purposes, allowing you to use Efficient to maximize your sustainability and gain some more DPS/heals per second in the process.

    *This issue also highlights the problem with shield stacking.*

    The same fix for synthesis needs to be applied to the healer. (The healing affect has a cool-down or reset completely if damage is inflicted.

    Or

    Healing whilst taking damage damages the healing beam, power plant or shield integrity.

    Or

    Direct Transfer of MJ. (There is a net limit shared between both the healer and receiver, which doesn't include SCB's, and is less than a 1:1 ratio.

    Or

    Remove healing completely / regen sequence.

    You were unable to fix it the first time, fix it now. Don't take the easy route, do a hard fix and stop this monstrosity of an implementation once and for all.

    Souces:

    https://discord.gg/q3Cmfe3

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IURhW-uB4ME

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiwDAmV8wbo

  2. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #2
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous Frontier Employee
    Hello Commander Swizzy o7o7!

    No ETA or guarantees, but there are a couple of changes we might consider for healing weapons: A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time, a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate, and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields.

  3. #3
    Clerics are OP in D&D as well

  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Swizzy o7o7!

    No ETA or guarantees, but there are a couple of changes we might consider for healing weapons: A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time, a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate, and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields.
    Might want to make sure it prevents this nonsense too

  5. This is the last staff post in this thread. #5
    Lead Designer- Elite: Dangerous Frontier Employee
    Hello Commander nrage!

    It should.

  6. #6
    Originally Posted by Swizzy o7o7 View Post (Source)
    Remove healing completely.
    Yes please... Like to many of these magical side effects they just have the ring of being in there purely for the sake of being in there. ie: To try and give Engineering some sort of depth and purpose it really doesn't deserve.

  7. #7
    Can we just get rid of SCBs whilst we're at it? Any mechanic where you can't accurately predict your chances of winning (since your opponent may or may not have "magic" shields) either in advance or during the combat is pretty sucky.

  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Swizzy o7o7!

    No ETA or guarantees, but there are a couple of changes we might consider for healing weapons: A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time, a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate, and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields.
    Anarchy systems will mitigate the effectiveness of the criminal punishment element and possibly disadvantage Anarchy PMFs engaging in BGS rivalry (though that might actually be logical from a galactic realism standpoint). Regardless, suggestions sound capital to me.

    CMDR Justinian Octavius

  9. #9
    It really seems HEALING is OP.

    1. A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time,
    2. a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate,
    3. and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields
    .

    1. prevents healing circuls
    2. You mean when healing a ship not in a wings?

    Originally Posted by tolm View Post (Source)
    Can we just get rid of SCBs whilst we're at it? Any mechanic where you can't accurately predict your chances of winning (since your opponent may or may not have "magic" shields) either in advance or during the combat is pretty sucky.
    I dont think removing them is necessary, the real problem for me is the possibility to STACK SCB and SHIELD BOOSTERS.

    STACKING gives the possibility to get OP shields and many regeneration's if you have big ships.

    F.E. AFAIR we had 2 BETA TEST rounds for removing BOOSTER STACKING - it was always reverted back to the actual status quo.
    Sandro stated something like "we see the problem with stacking - but we need to make fundamental changes to address that!"

    Unfortunately we did never heard of fundamental changes on this matter.

  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Clerics are OP in D&D as well
    Hey, don't mess with my D&D Cleric.

  11. #11
    Originally Posted by StefanOS View Post (Source)
    It really seems HEALING is OP.

    .

    1. prevents healing circuls
    2. You mean when healing a ship not in a wings?



    I dont think removing them is necessary, the real problem for me is the possibility to STACK SCB and SHIELD BOOSTERS.

    STACKING gives the possibility to get OP shields and many regeneration's if you have big ships.

    F.E. AFAIR we had 2 BETA TEST rounds for removing BOOSTER STACKING - it was always reverted back to the actual status quo.
    Sandro stated something like "we see the problem with stacking - but we need to make fundamental changes to address that!"

    Unfortunately we did never heard of fundamental changes on this matter.
    As a PvE player I really hate booster stacking and SCB's. Personally I would have made Booster a set amount, not a percentage and also have SCB's as utility items that only recharge a set amount too. As they are, they are both over powered in my view.

    Or just get rid of them.

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Swizzy o7o7!

    No ETA or guarantees, but there are a couple of changes we might consider for healing weapons: A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time, a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate, and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields.
    Even if healing was a hostile act / crime then it would be likely remain permissible within a Wing. If, however, healing a ship that was hostile to another ship (even if the healing ship was not hostile to that ship) caused the ship doing the healing to also become hostile (i.e. aiding my enemy makes you my enemy) then that'd be grand.

  13. #13
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander nrage!

    It should.
    You know they are going to try and break whatever fix you implement, right?

    Will be good to see the back of this.

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by Sandro Sammarco View Post (Source)
    Hello Commander Swizzy o7o7!

    No ETA or guarantees, but there are a couple of changes we might consider for healing weapons: A rule that prevents a ship from healing and being healed at the same time, a behaviour change to make healing a hostile act/crime as appropriate, and factoring all resistances that can ba applied to shields.
    This isn't going to be satisfactory, Sando. This is a blatantly overpowered module in PvP, and the community have been in outcry over it since it was introduced. There needs to be a final solution to it, which will ALSO prevent its use in exploits such as Healies4Feelies2. There was a stream 3 months ago discussing fixing shield stack, this is a direct repercussion from not having fixed that issue.

    There are no standard weapon counter to healing beams, not everyone can carry reverb mines and torps.

    For example:


    - -10% DPS (Should be -50% DPS)

    - Heals wingmates at a rate double its rated DPS (so effectively 1.8 normal beam lasers' DPS, because it normally does only 90% of a regular beams' damage) (Should be 100%)

    - Does factor thermal damage resistance into the healing per second calculations (Must factor in total MJ)

    - Does not suffer from damage falloff while healing, allowing efficient mods to maximize sustainability and have more DPS/ Regen per second. (There needs to be damage falloff)

    - Better for shields without resistances, which advocates for HD booster stack. (Another complimentary benefit to shield stacking.)

    - Better for shields with high cap, which advocates for HD booster stack. (Again, another complimentary benefit to shield stacking.)

  15. #15
    It has been my experience that if you are in a wing and one person becomes hostile, all the wing becomes hostile. Maybe that is only for criminal activities such as loitering.

    I always thought healing beams were a bit hinkey anyway.

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