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Thread: The black just got blacker - Full RGB

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by MadDogMurdock View Post (Source)
    driver updates seem to reset it.
    Good reminder. Yes, both nvidia driver updates and (unless I'm remembering this wrong) general Windows 10 updates do indeed reset this. It makes such a dramatic change that you'll often notice almost immediately that your Windows 10 desktop background looks "washed out" but it's worth adding to your mental list of things to redo following an update.

  2. #47
    Just don't use HDMI for a computer monitor. Worst of the choices. Display port is the way to go, or at least DVI-D.

  3. #48
    The Lagom tests are good helpers to fix your monitor settings.
    And the black test tells you in a glance if you have limited or full range:
    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

  4. #49
    I haven't found if this is an issue under Linux (type: Mint) as i sometimes hook my laptop to the TV via HDMI and it looks fine, but it did indeed have it auto selected to 'limited' under windows so switching that has improved the look of my games.

    I've only been using HDMI (on a large screen) recently so this was news to me cheers OP (have some rep).

  5. #50
    Originally Posted by Caramel Clown View Post (Source)
    Just don't use HDMI for a computer monitor. Worst of the choices. Display port is the way to go, or at least DVI-D.
    I agree with using DP, but on nVidia cards, it has the same issue.

    It's simply a faulty driver combined with bad software management. Software Updates should not change settings (or ask if the maintainer requests change of settings), and there is usually no reason to limit the dynamic range of a monitor by the driver. I've never personally encountered a situation where this was the fix for something. People who are in the rare situation that they need this fix for some exotic hardware, know that they have to set it up once at installation time.

  6. #51
    I did not think that the deep space could be so much black

    Thanks again to the OP

  7. #52
    +1 OP. Wow, what a difference this has made. thank you

  8. #53
    I finally wenty out 5218 Ly's tonight, and the nebula's and everything look much brighter and the black looks more dark, I am seeing a lot more colors of all shades now.

    One of the most awesome improvements for me is hyper jumps in VR, I am blown away, and enjoyed 108 of them in a row a bit ago.

  9. #54
    Just wanted to drop a line to thank OP for the post. It helped me a lot, although not for ED or for gaming.

    I encode my BluRays into mkv files so I can put them on my NAS and watch on any device. I was, until now, baffled by the line "Color Range: Limited" stats in my encoded video files. This post made it all so clear! Now I think I may have to re-encode into 10bits HEVC

    Thanks!

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by FoxTwo View Post (Source)
    Just wanted to drop a line to thank OP for the post. It helped me a lot, although not for ED or for gaming.

    I encode my BluRays into mkv files so I can put them on my NAS and watch on any device. I was, until now, baffled by the line "Color Range: Limited" stats in my encoded video files. This post made it all so clear! Now I think I may have to re-encode into 10bits HEVC

    Thanks!
    Don't.
    It won't matter.
    The source video and all video, especially movies are mastered and encoded to be viewed in the limited range.
    The only thing you will introduce is noise in the lower and upper range, mostly lower.
    All blueray players and tv signals run in limited signal range for this reason and viewing video on full range setup introduce noise.

    Tv's can support full range now but to some variable degree. they arent really designed for it, in fact Nvidia cards clip so heavily in either end of the contrast range that regardless of range used. Watching movies from a pc is not anything I would recommend if you are interested in quality.
    I too rip to mkv but I instead opt to use my OPPO 103d player for playback.

  11. #56
    For the record, it's more important that the modes are matched between card/monitor than they are set to RGB. Full.

    EG - if you use a TV as your disp[lay, RGB full may not be an option. Thus, setting your card to RGB limited is a good thing. As I said, it's most imortant that the s reen and card are matched. There are also other considerations (colour modes - eg, REC 601, REC 709, Adbbe RGB etc), these all need to be synched across the board, and may not be automatic on all display/card combinations.

    Z...

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post (Source)
    Don't.
    It won't matter.
    The source video and all video, especially movies are mastered and encoded to be viewed in the limited range.
    The only thing you will introduce is noise in the lower and upper range, mostly lower.
    All blueray players and tv signals run in limited signal range for this reason and viewing video on full range setup introduce noise.

    Tv's can support full range now but to some variable degree. they arent really designed for it, in fact Nvidia cards clip so heavily in either end of the contrast range that regardless of range used. Watching movies from a pc is not anything I would recommend if you are interested in quality.
    I too rip to mkv but I instead opt to use my OPPO 103d player for playback.
    Exactly this.

    Wen I say settings need to match across the board in my above post - this includes the software source, too. From memory, ED even has a setting for RGB limited in the graphics options.

    Z...

  13. #58
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    Exactly this.

    Wen I say settings need to match across the board in my above post - this includes the software source, too. From memory, ED even has a setting for RGB limited in the graphics options.

    Z...
    Indeed and I'm quite miffed with games that doesn't at least include a black level calibration image.
    Can't really trust, no expect, the developer to be able to conform to my varied chain of devices.
    A in game calibration icon and sliders will at least let me know what the developer would consider correct for their game.
    Especially when I have had my tv professional calibrated for movie watching.

    Output from my bd player is spot on perfect in the limited range. But even if I set my pc to limited, match signal and bit depth 8 bit ycbcr (4:2:2) to as closely match my hardware player the exact same files fail completely out of the pc.
    When I say fail i meam in an utterly , nit picking and obsessive kind of way.
    I'm sure it's only me and professional calibrators who would consider it a "fail".
    Like being able to see 17 and up vs 21 and up on the AVS 709 black/white level test (you can find these on YouTube and as mkv downloads if you wish)
    It does the same in the top end as well, where my bd player and tv show whites seperate all the way to 244, the pc cuts off at 230. This is actually inside the standard definition so technically not wrong.
    this is something I traced to GPU/drivers and it has been present for ages, perhaps as long as ther has been geforce products by Nvidia, and I'm not setup to test with AMD. Cause last time I bought one of their cards they where still Ati.

    Etc. but I can't say I have seen an RGB range setting in elite then again I play in VR.
    With all of its issues.
    In fact the rift pre drives by default the OLED panels so they don't go pure black.
    Mostly since this introduces latency and blurring in most panels, but not all.
    They dub this feature Spud removal since it chiefly also attempts to correct for mura noise.
    You can deactivate it by a registry setting but wether doing so is good depends entirely on your unit.
    Could be brilliant or it can make things terrible.
    I'm in the first fortunately so enjoy great contrast and deep blacks in the rift.

    As a funny side note my Samsung monitor is quite odd.
    The brightness setting on it only affects the backlight LED brightness.
    Only way to change black level setting on it is with three kind of off game profiles so I need to use the Nvidia colour settings to do any adjustment.

    Anyhoo I'm just ranting a bit now.
    I want it all you see. Perfect image and a great library htpc player like kodi. But if I have to choose I'd pick the pq.

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post (Source)
    Don't.
    It won't matter.
    The source video and all video, especially movies are mastered and encoded to be viewed in the limited range.
    The only thing you will introduce is noise in the lower and upper range, mostly lower.
    All blueray players and tv signals run in limited signal range for this reason and viewing video on full range setup introduce noise.

    Tv's can support full range now but to some variable degree. they arent really designed for it, in fact Nvidia cards clip so heavily in either end of the contrast range that regardless of range used. Watching movies from a pc is not anything I would recommend if you are interested in quality.
    I too rip to mkv but I instead opt to use my OPPO 103d player for playback.
    First of all: If you are interested in picture quality, don't view commercial movies. They are outright aweful. Low FPS, motion blur, noise etc. pp.
    Such a movie should never be considered a viable source to measure a display. Amateur movies often pay a lot more attention to good quality. Same as games. Use them.

    Watching movies from a PC has been the standard way to do it since about 20 years now. It's also viable, especially if you look for quality. Calibrating the screen correctly (white blance, gamma etc.) is also something that has to be done. Most TVs are set up wrong so that the signal is cropped and scaled, introducing more artifacts. Every time I arrive at a hotel and want to watch something, I have to go through the whole programme.

    At home I use a HTPC and a 50" Plasma since 2012 - never had any problems with it.

  15. #60
    Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post (Source)
    Indeed and I'm quite miffed with games that doesn't at least include a black level calibration image.
    Can't really trust, no expect, the developer to be able to conform to my varied chain of devices.
    A in game calibration icon and sliders will at least let me know what the developer would consider correct for their game.
    Especially when I have had my tv professional calibrated for movie watching.

    Output from my bd player is spot on perfect in the limited range. But even if I set my pc to limited, match signal and bit depth 8 bit ycbcr (4:2:2) to as closely match my hardware player the exact same files fail completely out of the pc.
    When I say fail i meam in an utterly , nit picking and obsessive kind of way.
    I'm sure it's only me and professional calibrators who would consider it a "fail".
    Like being able to see 17 and up vs 21 and up on the AVS 709 black/white level test (you can find these on YouTube and as mkv downloads if you wish)
    It does the same in the top end as well, where my bd player and tv show whites seperate all the way to 244, the pc cuts off at 230. This is actually inside the standard definition so technically not wrong.
    this is something I traced to GPU/drivers and it has been present for ages, perhaps as long as ther has been geforce products by Nvidia, and I'm not setup to test with AMD. Cause last time I bought one of their cards they where still Ati.

    Etc. but I can't say I have seen an RGB range setting in elite then again I play in VR.
    With all of its issues.
    In fact the rift pre drives by default the OLED panels so they don't go pure black.
    Mostly since this introduces latency and blurring in most panels, but not all.
    They dub this feature Spud removal since it chiefly also attempts to correct for mura noise.
    You can deactivate it by a registry setting but wether doing so is good depends entirely on your unit.
    Could be brilliant or it can make things terrible.
    I'm in the first fortunately so enjoy great contrast and deep blacks in the rift.

    As a funny side note my Samsung monitor is quite odd.
    The brightness setting on it only affects the backlight LED brightness.
    Only way to change black level setting on it is with three kind of off game profiles so I need to use the Nvidia colour settings to do any adjustment.

    Anyhoo I'm just ranting a bit now.
    I want it all you see. Perfect image and a great library htpc player like kodi. But if I have to choose I'd pick the pq.
    I'm a calibrator, and yes, I notice. Drives me mad. I now mostly bite my tongue, as for most people, ignorance is bliss.

    Z...

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