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Thread: How to fix Engineers powercreep without upsetting those who grinded for it?

  1. #136
    Originally Posted by Vedmo View Post (Source)
    I have thousands of g5 rolls, from before and after changes, and your description of my experience is inaccurate to the point I question if you've ever even engaged in the process you claim authority on.

    Just about every aspect of gameplay is incorporated into unlocking engineering, and the process itself offers a plethora of tinkering options. Different mods at different levels when combined with others give different results. Knowledge is absolutely needed. The function of mass, optimal mass, heat mechanics, power, distributor draw, debuffs, etc. and their synergy with each other on a particular build can best be optimized for a desired role with in depth knowledge and experience.

    I'm not just "collecting stuff." I'm playing the game, and through the course of my game play I sometimes spend a smidgen of time collecting materials made available through it. This might be a couple of minutes of collector drones per hour of combat, or a split second to pick a mission reward with mats. Radical video game concept, I realize, collecting items dropped during gameplay for use in increasing your power.
    He hasn't used engineers once and hasn't got horizons. Yep, I agree with you. You do need somes skill to work out what the upgrades do, what special effect to use with which item and use them for specific jobs. My DBX for instance has efficient Large Pulse with the stripped down special to make it lighter, while others will use the lighter large pulse and probably stripped down option too, but for some other ships I have an overcharged weapon and a long range on the iCourier.

  2. #137
    Originally Posted by metatheurgist View Post (Source)
    Identical mods is one of the suckier effects of the new engineering. Everyone is special now (except they aren't because a select few got rolls that no-one can get now). Retaining the uniqueness of the old system but ironing out the extremes on a pro-rate basis was the best solution (and one even PvP'er's with god rolls agreed with). Instead, we got what we got. Boring identical modules (except for those lucky few who can't be matched anymore). It really is the darkest timeline.
    The thing is, is that I doubt many have identical modules unless they completely copy each other. I doubt my Large Pulse is the exact same as most other peoples. Also, it's not really about being special, it's about making your ship closer to how you want to use it.

  3. #138
    Originally Posted by GunnerBill View Post (Source)
    Not a paradox but if you close down any meaningful way for a seasoned player to advance their ship beyond a newly bought one that to me feels remarkably like spawning a new character in a FPS.

    Something I don’t think works in a game like this.

    And how did you know I wear Womens clothes, well at least the underwear???
    It's not what I propose though. For arguments sake, let's assume that current ships are 5 times better (I know, I know, no need to tell me I am wrong!) and the proposal would be to make them just 3 times better. There would still be a significant difference between engineered and non engineered ships.

  4. #139
    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    True. Now what about power creep in general?

    PS
    Maybe it's a bad idea, I'd just like to see some good arguments against it. So far I've seen:

    - They just redesigned engineers, don't touch it!
    - I don't understand the proposal
    - I want to have a huge benefit over those who didn't bother with the newest stuff and that's where my fun comes from

    There must be some better reason against it!
    **ERROR**!!!!

    **ERROR**!!!!!


    **LOGICAL ARGUMENT DETECTED FOLLOWED BY ILLOGICAL RESPONSES***

    **ERROR**!!!!

    **ERROR**!!!!!





  5. #140
    Originally Posted by Kaa Mchorror View Post (Source)
    Engineers are here to stay so if you decide to not use then it's entirely on you. If a "better" ship is released and you don't use it then it's entirely on you. Why should the game cater to people who can't be bothered?
    No difference in game modes was here to stay but now we have Power Play changes. It's nonsensical to use that as an argument because it's simply not true. If FDev turned around tomorrow and said, yep we're scrapping engineers because it's broken the game, what are you going to do about it? Moan in the forums? You'll still keep playing the game.

    Originally Posted by babelfisch View Post (Source)
    It's not that I don't want to Engineer or that I want to remove it from the game. I simply provided a potential solution for those who think the the differences are too big. The idea is not to make Engineers useless but to flatten the curve a little bit.

    It's interesting to see how many people are against the proposal even though they wouldn't lose anything
    reminds me of a poll abouit auto-pilots that happened some time ago....

  6. #141
    Originally Posted by Vedmo View Post (Source)
    I have thousands of g5 rolls, from before and after changes, and your description of my experience is inaccurate to the point I question if you've ever even engaged in the process you claim authority on.

    Just about every aspect of gameplay is incorporated into unlocking engineering, and the process itself offers a plethora of tinkering options. Different mods at different levels when combined with others give different results. Knowledge is absolutely needed. The function of mass, optimal mass, heat mechanics, power, distributor draw, debuffs, etc. and their synergy with each other on a particular build can best be optimized for a desired role with in depth knowledge and experience.

    I'm not just "collecting stuff." I'm playing the game, and through the course of my game play I sometimes spend a smidgen of time collecting materials made available through it. This might be a couple of minutes of collector drones per hour of combat, or a split second to pick a mission reward with mats. Radical video game concept, I realize, collecting items dropped during gameplay for use in increasing your power.
    I didn't claim to be an authority on it - I was pointing out what a useless game mechanic it was and how it breaks the game - both of those it does which is a fact, not to mention it's pointless because you don't need any of them.

  7. #142
    Originally Posted by Viscera View Post (Source)
    Lots of chat, but nobody has mentioned the real problem (for me at least).

    It is ground, not grinded.

    irrelevant, but important none the less.
    Not at all - more important to remember that not everyone here speaks English as badly as you speak, or more relevantly, write, belgian or french or german

  8. #143
    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    I didn't claim to be an authority on it - I was pointing out what a useless game mechanic it was and how it breaks the game - both of those it does which is a fact, not to mention it's pointless because you don't need any of them.
    Neither are a fact. Engineers does not break the game and whether they are useless is purely down to the individual. You have no idea how they work but you seem to think that they break the game and are useless with no information at all. What you are calling a fact is actually uninformed speculation.

    And how do I know this, I actually play the game and use engineers.

  9. #144
    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    I didn't claim to be an authority on it - I was pointing out what a useless game mechanic it was and how it breaks the game - both of those it does which is a fact, not to mention it's pointless because you don't need any of them.
    This is not fact at all, it is your feeling.

  10. #145
    What nonsense is this? Just stop powercreep. Release big destroyers that dwarf the 3 bigs and introduce a new tier of ships.
    With stupendous rebuys.
    No more padding up of excisting ship stats

  11. #146
    Originally Posted by er1c View Post (Source)
    This is not fact at all, it is your feeling.
    No, it's your "feeling" that you enjoy it that doesn't change the facts;

    - it breaks the game
    - it's pay to win over none Horizons players (there's at least 2 in this thread)
    - It's lazy programming
    - it's grindy
    - It serves no purpose in game
    - we could have had something much better

  12. #147
    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    No, it's your "feeling" that you enjoy it that doesn't change the facts;

    - it breaks the game
    No it doesn't.

    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    - it's pay to win over none Horizons players (there's at least 2 in this thread)
    No it's not as there is nothing to "win" in the game.

    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    - It's lazy programming
    How would you know? It is no better or worse then a lot of the other crafting systems out there. But how can you know when you have never used it? Doesn't seem lazy to me.

    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    - it's grindy
    That is all dependent on play style. No grind here.

    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    - It serves no purpose in game
    The same as any other crafting system out there then, they are there to have fun, which is it's purpose. Some do, some don't. I enjoy this version much more then the previous.

    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    - we could have had something much better
    About the only thing I would agree with, but the current version is much better then before, in my view that is.

  13. #148
    Originally Posted by Jex =TE= View Post (Source)
    No, it's your "feeling" that you enjoy it that doesn't change the facts;

    - it breaks the game
    - it's pay to win over none Horizons players (there's at least 2 in this thread)
    - It's lazy programming
    - it's grindy
    - It serves no purpose in game
    - we could have had something much better
    None of these are facts. At least not facts considering the proper use of the word "facts".

  14. #149
    Originally Posted by picommander View Post (Source)
    I like this idea very much!

    Lately I'm sold to a very similar idea: pre-build engineered ships as reward for certain difficult tasks (as a reward for certain tip-off missions for instance). These ships would belong to you but can't be insured. Once they blow up they are gone. These 'temporary' ships could also serve as a reward for certain PvP achievements like, say, after killing a number of players and /or players killed above your rating.

    So far nobody seems to like this idea. Really?
    Thank you for reading. It seems this idea does not get very much attention. Maybe it's slightly off-topic.

    Still - having pre-generated engineered ships as reward or as option to go with for some missions, would level the playing field somewhat I think. Beginners as well as veterans could profit from a mission giving a pre-engineered ship to go with for the mission, if they have arrived at the system with a ship not adequate for the mission in question.

    I also like the "non-insurance-one-life-only" approach for those rental ships.

    I personally disliked Engineers from the beginning but went through the grind never the less - because, well I wanted to stay competitive. Pre-Engineered ships would take the pressure out for Commanders like me, who want to fly a competitive ship, in critical situations, but are more casual in day-to-day gaming.

    Fly engaged. Stay entertained. And don't let anyone bring you down.

  15. #150
    What grind? We have material traders now.