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Thread: How to fix Engineers powercreep without upsetting those who grinded for it?

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by Mercy Killing View Post (Source)
    I very stridently disagree. Before engineers, NPC ships were just about right for my skill level. After engineers, I could not even face mid rated NPC ships in my unengineered ship. Therefore, I had to stop playing. I do occasionally pop in to see if they've been toned down, but nope. AND TO TOP IT OFF, the launcher touts a non-horizons version of the game that is a lie. One STILL faces engineered NPC ships despite not even being able to land the ship, much less actually interact with an engineer. So yes, there is a problem with engineers and PvE. Specifically, there's no version without them altogether.
    Originally Posted by Navigare Necesse Est View Post (Source)
    Pretty much this.
    Agreed. The powercreep is bad for both PvE and PvP in my view. Saying that I didn't have a major issues when I hadn't done any engineering, and if I had problems with some ships I just ran, like it did before engineered NPC's came out and my brother who plays on the PS4 has done no engineering seems to be fine as well.

    So it seems the game is perfectly playable without Engineers, you will just need to be more carefull with who you take on.

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    Agreed. The powercreep is bad for both PvE and PvP in my view. Saying that I didn't have a major issues when I hadn't done any engineering, and if I had problems with some ships I just ran, like it did before engineered NPC's came out and my brother who plays on the PS4 has done no engineering seems to be fine as well.

    So it seems the game is perfectly playable without Engineers, you will just need to be more carefull with who you take on.
    Kinda OK with my D rated Python. Was a bit thrilling to guess whether to gun or run. But not really in my combat ships. Felt nerfed. Like really nerfed into the ground.

  3. #33
    I have not come across the issue that this thread is designed to "solve".

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Navigare Necesse Est View Post (Source)
    Kinda OK with my D rated Python. Was a bit thrilling to guess whether to gun or run. But not really in my combat ships. Felt nerfed. Like really nerfed into the ground.
    You probably only need grade one or two weapons and shields to get you sorted. You may even have most of the materials already available in your inventory. That would probably sort your combat ships out without making them overpowered and would be extremely easy to get hold of.

    The most annoying part of the engineers for me is opening some of them up, especially the masachist that wants you to mine 500t of ore.

  5. #35
    Or you know, just play the engineer 3.0 system? Radical I know...

    Here's the thing OP, now that engineering gives guaranteed improvement, well... The only excuse to not engineer is not having Horizons.

    The new system is great.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by Un1k0rn View Post (Source)
    Or you know, just play the engineer 3.0 system? Radical I know...

    Here's the thing OP, now that engineering gives guaranteed improvement, well... The only excuse to not engineer is not having Horizons.

    The new system is great.
    I don't think that is the point of the original post. While I agree that the new system is a massive improvement and something I actually find fun, the issue is the huge amount of powercreep from a stock A module to a G5 uber module.

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by mistohise View Post (Source)
    I have not come across the issue that this thread is designed to "solve".
    Don't feel bad about it, you don't need to understand everything.

  8. #38
    Just for those who don't know what the term power creep means (or how I used it in OP...)

    power creep

    (collectible games, video games, role-playing games) The situation where updates to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered.
    https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/power_creep

  9. #39
    I read this, thought about this, read it again, and this is what I hear:

    ďItís no fair! They did all that work and got something better than me! I want that too, but without the work! Iím entitled! I didnít ask to be born!Ē And toys thrown out of the pram.

    Anyone else hear it too?

  10. #40
    It was blizzard who had a solution of sorts to this. Basically it came down to the stats were just numbers and didn't mean much. I think that related to how content in each update was based on a different base stat value. So creep only harmed the older content which was ok. Therefore, not sure it could carry over to Elite.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    I read this, thought about this, read it again, and this is what I hear:

    ďItís no fair! They did all that work and got something better than me! I want that too, but without the work! Iím entitled! I didnít ask to be born!Ē And toys thrown out of the pram.

    Anyone else hear it too?
    .
    You might want to schedule an appointment with your otologist. I have a number of fully engineered ships. For some of them i didn't even do any re-engineering, as my legacy modules are on par to the best you can create with the new system. And still i agree with the idea, although i think that Frenotx' version (link to it above) is the better version of this. But the point really is that currently specialisation is too strong. Closing the gap between engineered and non-engineered ships would make non-combat ships more viable.
    .

  12. #42
    What they should do is make a huge announcment that the current model for ships is all over the place and has been from the start and will now be doing what they said they would do in KS which was to make a complex damage model and then redesign all of the ships acccording to their roles

    Get rid of the stupid weghts for things like life support which is just stupid. Hey - here's a 5 minute air supply that weight 120 tons because you're in an Anaconda - yes air gets heavier in an Anaconda.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by Sylow View Post (Source)
    .
    You might want to schedule an appointment with your otologist. I have a number of fully engineered ships. For some of them i didn't even do any re-engineering, as my legacy modules are on par to the best you can create with the new system. And still i agree with the idea, although i think that Frenotx' version (link to it above) is the better version of this. But the point really is that currently specialisation is too strong. Closing the gap between engineered and non-engineered ships would make non-combat ships more viable.
    .
    What do I need with an octologist? My 8’sare just fine. I do know a good neurosurgeon who can perform wit implants though.

    Now that we’re done with the zinger-flinger let's ask the big question:

    Why shouldn’t there be a massive gap between combat ships and non-combat ships? Is there any logical reason a Volkswagen bus should be able to stand up to a Bradley Fighting Vehicle?

    I didn’t think so either.

  14. #44
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    Why shouldnít there be a massive gap between combat ships and non-combat ships? Is there any logical reason a Volkswagen bus should be able to stand up to a Bradley Fighting Vehicle?
    .
    Indeed there is no reason for that, as long as the VW is in an environment were it never has to expect to be attacked. Of course i can be wrong, but according to my perception of the game, this condition is not met. So to stick with the weak analogy: you might be eager to drive the VW into a hot combat zone, but i would guess that most people are not.
    .

  15. #45
    Originally Posted by IndigoWyrd View Post (Source)
    I read this, thought about this, read it again, and this is what I hear:

    “It’s no fair! They did all that work and got something better than me! I want that too, but without the work! I’m entitled! I didn’t ask to be born!” And toys thrown out of the pram.

    Anyone else hear it too?
    I am pretty sure that I quite clearly said how I don't care. It's just a proposal to a problem others have, I just recently read about it in another thread and thought this might be a good solution. If I somehow hurt your feelings I am sorry.

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