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Thread: Your Brave New Work World

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by Manticore View Post (Source)
    This above.

    Patrick, with respect, I don't know if workers being exploited are cowardly people.

    They have my full support.

    Now about the Kardashians........
    The term "coward" is perhaps a little excessive

    But I think that basically we are a bit cowardly (I am also a coward like many)

    In the example of Mottikhan, the employees lost their job (with poor working conditions), but they won the freedom and pride to be brave

    Concerning this company, strike employees, closure and opening under another name, is never really good for its reputation on the job market ...

    Certainly many valuable people avoid applying for a job


  2. #47
    Thankfully I think the workforce here in Euroland is a bit more militant in that we have a few more workers rights and fairly active unions.

    That’s constantly being eroded for the sake of “efficiency” or some other poo poo reason the right comes up with.

    You don’t have to man the barricades at every injustice - just make sure you choose your consumer goods and vote to lessen exploitation.

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by ethelred View Post (Source)
    Thankfully I think the workforce here in Euroland is a bit more militant in that we have a few more workers rights and fairly active unions.

    That’s constantly being eroded for the sake of “efficiency” or some other poo poo reason the right comes up with.

    You don’t have to man the barricades at every injustice - just make sure you choose your consumer goods and vote to lessen exploitation.
    Exactly

    There are many ways to fight every day with small actions and small gestures which complicate the life of the dominants

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Patrick_68000 View Post (Source)
    The term "coward" is perhaps a little excessive

    But I think that basically we are a bit cowardly (I am also a coward like many)
    It IS pretty difficult when a system has been designed specifically to favour the employer over employee.

    Originally Posted by Patrick_68000 View Post (Source)
    In the example of Mottikhan, the employees lost their job (with poor working conditions), but they won the freedom and pride to be brave

    Concerning this company, strike employees, closure and opening under another name, is never really good for its reputation on the job market ...

    Certainly many valuable people avoid applying for a job
    The USA is the example to the rest of us (to not follow imho), as depending on what state you are in you can have zero rights or power as an employee; the examples Mottikhan gave a good example of how employment laws can shift back to 'feudal' levels of inequality. The Master and the Slave.

    The irony that America exists because it wanted to escape such a tyranny (for which i am truly sorry!) is not lost on me.

    I love America (which is weird as a british person); the history of the place, the promise and potential it's founding represented etc, but also now more than anything as the cautionary tale of what not to do with Capitalism or your country as a whole.

    Sure if you want to create lots of money concentrated in small groups of people, and the powder-keg wider social issues that come with that, then fine as a short-term 'get rich quick' method of governance with a hard fall, it can work.

    But yeah not a place i would ever want to live and work in knowing it as i do (possibly as a more ignorant mexican border jumper i'd be willing to risk it?).

  5. #50
    Originally Posted by Zak Gordon View Post (Source)
    It IS pretty difficult when a system has been designed specifically to favour the employer over employee.



    The USA is the example to the rest of us (to not follow imho), as depending on what state you are in you can have zero rights or power as an employee; the examples Mottikhan gave a good example of how employment laws can shift back to 'feudal' levels of inequality. The Master and the Slave.

    I love America (which is weird as a british person); the history of the place, the promise and potential it's founding represented etc, but also now more than anything as the cautionary tale of what not to do with Capitalism or your country as a whole.

    Sure if you want to create lots of money concentrated in small groups of people, and the powder-keg wider social issues that come with that, then fine as a short-term 'get rich quick' method of governance with a hard fall, it can work.

    But yeah not a place i would ever want to live and work in knowing it as i do (possibly as a more ignorant mexican border jumper?).
    I could not say better


  6. #51
    Originally Posted by Patrick_68000 View Post (Source)
    ...

    In the example of Mottikhan, the employees lost their job (with poor working conditions), but they won the freedom and pride to be brave

    Concerning this company, strike employees, closure and opening under another name, is never really good for its reputation on the job market ...

    Certainly many valuable people avoid applying for a job

    It didn't hurt either company. The employees hardly gained freedom. They had to find other jobs, possibly at lower pay and essentially the same working conditions. The laws they worked under didn't change, so no gain for them. You have to meet certain criteria in order to claim unemployment benefits. I'm sure many of them didn't, so had to deplete their savings and rely on the good will of friends and family. As far as pride, some had to go back and essentially beg to be rehired. Others had to scrape around for other jobs and possibly beg for food in the mean time.

    For me, I have a family to provide for. I need the medical insurance to cover my wife. I can't consider the "freedom" of searching for a new job and then having to wait 90 days for insurance and other benefits to kick in.

    <edit> The attitude of management is pervasive in the workforce. I've was trying to hire an assistant for years. I finally found a good prospect, but my boss wanted to hire him at a lower grade than the position called for. He said he didn't want to pay someone that much right off the bat. Once hired, my boss wanted to slow leak pay raises by giving him a dollar an hour raise every 6 months until he came up to the full rate. I fought him hard and after proving that my new assistant was worth every penny, he was promoted to the position he was hired for. But management has this idea that keeping people down and under their thumb is the way to go.

    The laws aren't the only problem. It seems that the higher you go in the company, the less you care for the rank and file. It's not just here. Dell has plenty of employees and they have a well deserved reputation of just firing people at will with no notice. An acquaintance of mine was called to the front office and was fired out of the blue. He couldn't even go back to his desk and get his stuff. They sent another employee to clean out his desk and bring his stuff to him. it's an uncaring and sometimes hostile environment here. But you do what you have to in order to survive. </edit>

  7. #52
    Fear, technology, and cost.

    The fear is driven by the mass media. Behind every bush is a pedophile. On every street there is a terrorist. Remember when we as kids would go roaming around the town, without mobiles, parents half the time no idea of where we were, and not worried? (at least beyond normal parental concern).

    Technology - we now have the tech at a price (cost) that makes it possible to do things like drug tests cheaply. Years ago only the most security concious and demanding companies could afford or need to do drug tests. Now they are relatively cheap. Same with background checks. Once upon a time a company would need to submit via post, pay for the check a hefty sum, and wait weeks for an answer. Now they can probably file online for a smallish price, its a database lookup, and they get an answer probably within hours.

  8. #53
    Originally Posted by MottiKhan View Post (Source)
    It didn't hurt either company. The employees hardly gained freedom. They had to find other jobs, possibly at lower pay and essentially the same working conditions. The laws they worked under didn't change, so no gain for them. You have to meet certain criteria in order to claim unemployment benefits. I'm sure many of them didn't, so had to deplete their savings and rely on the good will of friends and family. As far as pride, some had to go back and essentially beg to be rehired. Others had to scrape around for other jobs and possibly beg for food in the mean time.

    For me, I have a family to provide for. I need the medical insurance to cover my wife. I can't consider the "freedom" of searching for a new job and then having to wait 90 days for insurance and other benefits to kick in.

    <edit> The attitude of management is pervasive in the workforce. I've was trying to hire an assistant for years. I finally found a good prospect, but my boss wanted to hire him at a lower grade than the position called for. He said he didn't want to pay someone that much right off the bat. Once hired, my boss wanted to slow leak pay raises by giving him a dollar an hour raise every 6 months until he came up to the full rate. I fought him hard and after proving that my new assistant was worth every penny, he was promoted to the position he was hired for. But management has this idea that keeping people down and under their thumb is the way to go.

    The laws aren't the only problem. It seems that the higher you go in the company, the less you care for the rank and file. It's not just here. Dell has plenty of employees and they have a well deserved reputation of just firing people at will with no notice. An acquaintance of mine was called to the front office and was fired out of the blue. He couldn't even go back to his desk and get his stuff. They sent another employee to clean out his desk and bring his stuff to him. it's an uncaring and sometimes hostile environment here. But you do what you have to in order to survive. </edit>
    The harsh reality in your post

    Anyway the world of work is perverted

    It is a war between dominant and dominated and one day will end badly

    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Remember when we as kids would go roaming around the town, without mobiles, parents half the time no idea of where we were, and not worried? (at least beyond normal parental concern).
    Happy days


  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Years ago only the most security concious and demanding companies could afford or need to do drug tests. Now they are relatively cheap.
    The problem is also that drug tests could also hide other tests to verify if you have no diseases

    The bosses are so perverse that they are able to do tests which go beyond drug tests

    I will not be surprised if it has already happened

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