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Thread: Fortnite for ED: Turn CQC into PvP

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by Julio Montega View Post (Source)
    If you play an arena mode, you need to have the same chances for everyone, exluding the fitting meta
    of the game itself.
    In PvP fitting is 80% of the fight imo, in CQC it is way less important,
    skill is rewarded and that is an aspect i want preserved.
    Well that's patently untrue. Lots of games have 1v1 or small team PvP arena modes which aren't balanced, and people still enjoy them. When I still played Archeage I spent more time in the unbalanced arena taking on 7k+GS meta-build characters with my off-meta 5k character (an unwinnable fight, except after a while I started winning, not often, but every win felt amazing), than I did in the balanced arena.

    You can also artificially balance arenas. Like make the arena cluttered with cover and environmental hazards, where the agility of smaller ships comes to the fore, and bigger ships really have to play a clever game to win.

    Maybe it will work maybe not, but it can't make things worse than now, because a) CQC is already as dead as it can possibly get, and b) it would be an optional mode, only for people who wanted to play it, not forced on anyone else.

  2. #47
    Originally Posted by CariadocThorne View Post (Source)
    Maybe it will work maybe not, but it can't make things worse than now, because a) CQC is already as dead as it can possibly get, and b) it would be an optional mode, only for people who wanted to play it, not forced on anyone else.
    Duly repped. This is a point that's been made again and again.

    I think the "fear" is that it might indeed actually BE popular and thus remove participation from Open is more likely than non-interest.

  3. #48
    CQC, like everything else they've done, is just about a barebones game mode and has been massively neglected since launch.

  4. #49
    A few quantitative points about CQC and deadness... and the possibility of revamping it by making it more like main game PvP.

    Firstly, a quick look at community sizes. The unofficial CQC Discord has about 2,000 members. GCI (probably the most popular main game PvP discord?) has around 2,200 members. The San Tu PvP hub (probably the closest you can get now to the suggestions for "CQC but with main game ships") has about 1,300 members. Obviously not everyone who takes part in those forms of PvP is on those discords and plenty of people who quit playing Elite entirely months ago but don't clean up their Discord lists still are. (The San Tu discord is a fair bit newer than the others, which may be part of why it's a bit smaller)

    So ... they're all niches, they're all similar sizes, and it's unlikely that changing one to make it more like the other will lead to an overall increase in players. I often point out in "but but PvPers should all go to CQC" threads that CQC is fairly limited in the sorts of scenarios you can set up even if you want something roughly balanced - but the counterpart to that is that main game PvP has its own balance issues (sleep-inducing TTKs on engineered warships, for example) and CQCers shouldn't have to put up with "wouldn't it be great if it took five minutes of solid fire from everyone else on the map to make them lose a ring of shields" either.

    If people want PvP fights between variably-engineered main game ships ... there are plenty of opportunities to get that already.



    Secondly, the design of CQC makes it look dead even at relatively high player counts. The last two weeks' trade CGs got about 2,500 participants each. That's enough players for CGs not to be considered "dead" - though of course many of those people will be ones who dropped off one load of cargo and then left to do something else. (This week's bounty CG looks like it will do somewhat better than that, but bounty > trade in CG player counts pretty consistently)

    What if there were 2,500 people looking for CQC matches, for an average of an hour per week? There would be an average of about 15 people playing at any one time. These would be split across the three platforms, and the three CQC game modes, which wouldn't let you get very far. (With out-of-game coordination, getting a Deathmatch [1] on the larger PC platform at busier times should be generally practical though - see third point).

    So any proposal to attract more players to CQC by "making it more fun for me" would have to make it competitive in terms of player count with the busiest CGs - if not several times busier once PS4/XBox/less popular modes are included - for "show up uncoordinated and usually get a match" to work for everyone. Good luck with that



    Thirdly, CQC is not actually dead - it's practical to get a Deathmatch on PC between ~1900 and ~0300 most days, and for longer and in other modes at weekends, if you do a bit of out-of-game coordination with other people who might want to play to get around the horrendously opaque in-game queuing system (XBox and PS4 have smaller player counts, so it's tougher there). Frontier could liven up CQC instantly [2] by implementing a more transparent queueing system (so you didn't spend hours waiting for a TDM when there was a perfectly good DM running you could have joined) and allowing queue-from-main-game (as multicrew works now) so that the players there already are found it easier to get into matches.



    [1] Deathmatch requires a minimum of 4 rather than 6 for TDM/CTF to start, and works far better with fewer than the full 8 than the other modes do. So it's much easier to get started.
    [2] Instantly in terms of "they release it and CQC instantly gets more lively". I'm sure there are significant technical barriers to doing either or we'd have them already.

  5. #50
    I do play CQC quite often and I didn't want to use that to counter-argument the whole thread because I find this topic dead since the beginning.

    If they were really keen into CQC, fast and funny free pvp combat, they would have found it (the reddit link is listed from the main ED reddit) and they'd be queueing up with the rest of us at any time.

  6. #51
    Originally Posted by CariadocThorne View Post (Source)
    What's the problem?

    Why not?

    A lot of people would try it if they could use it as a quick way to get a PvP fight in their tricked-out deathmobile, without having to track down a willing opponent, arrange a fight, then travel half-way across the bubble to meet up.

    If it's an extra mode, no-one else looses out because of it.

    What's the worst that can happen? CQC is currently dead, this would at least have a chance of breathing life back into it.
    So would you have to queue up to wait for a suitable number of players with Engineered Corvettes joins, or just throw them in the queue with the F63s?

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by Weps View Post (Source)
    I would do it a bit differently, with progression from Sidewinder to top PvP ship, in the same manner players start with nothing in a classic BR game:

    https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...le-Royale-mode
    Maybe do it gun game style. Everybody starts with a meta FDL. Every time you get a kill, you get downgraded to a weaker ship. First person to get their single-fixed-pulse kill with a hauler wins.

  8. #53
    So, people wants to have a game mode where you can die without any cost.. in other games they call it god mode, in ED they call it CQC-BattleRoyale

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by ilo View Post (Source)
    So, people wants to have a game mode where you can die without any cost.. in other games they call it god mode, in ED they call it CQC-BattleRoyale
    Eh? Many PvP modes have no cost...from WoW having BGs and arena to Smite to World of Warships a lot of pvp stuff I play doesn't nail you for dying.

  10. #55

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by Eriseley View Post (Source)
    Eh? Many PvP modes have no cost...from WoW having BGs and arena to Smite to World of Warships a lot of pvp stuff I play doesn't nail you for dying.
    Then keep doing it!!!

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by ilo View Post (Source)
    Then keep doing it!!!
    I do! Was just confused about your point...I also trade Open in this game and maybe I'll CQC some day but I know I'm not that good. Just think PvP works best when you give people a lotta carrots to participate, myself.

  13. #58
    Originally Posted by Vasious View Post (Source)
    So would you have to queue up to wait for a suitable number of players with Engineered Corvettes joins, or just throw them in the queue with the F63s?
    I said it would be good to have something like this as an ADDITONAL mode? So yes, the engineered 'Vettes would go in a queue with the engineered Pythons, FDLs, FASs, Vultures, Vipers, DBSs, and so on. The current game mode of Condors etc would stay exactly as is, so if that's what you like, you could still play that, completely unchanged.

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