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Thread: BestInSlot makes 600 Struthiomimus

  1. #46
    Well, juvenile dinosaurs flocked for a certainty e.g. for safety reasons and so will smaller species. Groups formed as a defence against predation. So it is likely that many of the groups we see for dinosaurs were for defence but does this make them social?

    We have to be carefull to say a lot of things where social. Obviously we have lots of evidence for group forming for dinosaurs and some of them were very likely social. However, looking at modern animals and the generally limited evidence it is very hard to pick a species and say this particular dinosaur was social. Behaviour can even switch from social to asocial during seasons also within species.

    So it is kind of hard to translate this into the game. At the moment I'm quite happy to form loose groups e.g. six Stegos and seeing them randomly interact but of course I would love to see Raptors hunting in a group or see some Gallimimus' forming a flock. But it is tricky.

  2. #47
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I though elephant herds had one male and made up of females.
    Shamelessly stolen from wikipedia about african elephants

    "African elephant societies are arranged around family units. Each family unit is made up of around ten closely related females and their calves and is led by an older female known as the matriarch.[4] When separate family units bond, they form kinship or bond groups. After puberty, male elephants tend to form close alliances with other males."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_elephant

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I though elephant herds had one male and made up of females.
    Wikipedia disagrees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Imperios View Post (Source)
    Set radius bigger and you will hardly notice any difference to their current behavior where some go away to eat / drink and rejoin others to socialize. Set it not as high and there will always be a certain amount of dinos that will most times look like a moving circle.
    The rules I described categorically will not form a moving circle of dinos, unless the alpha has its feet nailed to the floor or there is zero free space left within x distance of the alpha.

    Even if you assume a starting position with dinos perfectly evenly distributed within a circle around the alpha -so the group actually does look like a circle- as soon as the alpha moves towards one side of the circle the group will start to get dragged out of shape. The dinos in the direction its heading will not be required to move as they are still within x of the alpha; the dinos the alpha has moved away from are now outside of x and need to move closer to keep up with the herd. The circle will collapse first into a ragged sector shape and then into a ragged cigar shape aligned with the alpha’s direction of travel.

    At the moment I often see them scattered all over the enclosure, so unless the x range covers the whole of a large enclosure -not what I intend at all- the difference between having this herding behaviour active or not would be easily noticeable.

  5. #50
    JP1 establishes that they move in herds even without males, so that's good enough for me.

    Having an 'Alpha' (or perhaps more than one, if the numbers warrant it) in this case is really just a convenient way of allowing the other dinos to orientate themselves into a closer group and be inclined to move in same direction.

  6. #51
    Best way to substantiate OP claims is to run the same test on the consoles and see what it can do. No doubt PCs are stronger in terms of power but I feel that herding may actually allow for more dinosaurs as has been discussed already.

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    He does it on Nublar. At around 600 Struthiomimus his PC starts to give out on him. It does look amazing though, not gonna lie.



    Also I think this validates my theory as to why there is no large herding behavior. Cause consoles can't handle it. 600 Struthis on low settings has totally shut BIS PC down, it's lagging and no longer playable. At low settings. Now people keep saying they want to see herding. So I can only imagine what would happen of someone got 15 or more of these animals on the screen all moving at the same time using the settings consoles do. It would probably start chugging and skipping frames like crazy. The game would probably turn into a clip show as we used to say. Even on PC's you would have to cut that number in half probably or more with ultra settings. At ultra settings a gaming rig probably couldn't even do over 200 Dinosaurs. Also BIS is using Struthis and not some large monster Sauropods.

    So there you go. BIS did what I didn't have the patience or time to do. I would like to see him do this was Brachiosaurs though.

    Everyone complaining about the size of Nublar had me worried but it doesn't look too small there, it could probably be a bit bigger. But it doesn't look as small as people made it out to be. From what I seen Sorna looks to be pretty big though.
    Herding mechanic could decrease the amount of resources the game uses as multiple dinosaurs could be treated as one AI character. AI not graphics is now the GPU killer.

  8. #53
    Originally Posted by Imperios View Post (Source)
    And the result of that with 100+ dots moving around would be what i already said above: A circle filled with 100 dots. That ain't looking natural...

    For a herd to look natural you need swarm algorithms and those are pretty cpu intense
    like these, in frontier other little known game Elite Dangerous.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aofqOFhAtFQ

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    People seem to forget that these animals are also not in a natural order. There are no males. I am sure the alpha would be a male in most cases. Cause that's how modern animals work. Usually it's male who is the alpha surrounded by many females. The Dinosaurs in the game are all female. So there is no real alpha to lead or to follow. Of course that is if Dinosaurs actually formed herds.


    From the complaints I have seen people expect large herds and I have to say with the space we have and system involved with putting Dinosaurs in enclosures there is no real need for herding. There isn't enough space, we don't have a site B mode unless you do it on one of the islands. The enclosures wouldn't be nigh enough to have herding.
    Actually more often than not most animal species revolve around a dominant female. Yes some of the more popular species like lions have an alpha male that “leads” but when you really delve into the animal kingdom it’s the females that lead. Some fish and amphibians, clownfish for example, will actually change sex from male to female when a new alpha female is needed.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by Chris Simon View Post (Source)
    He's nuts.

    But I think this is also a proof that although there isn't a herding mechanic per se, dinos DO like to hang together. It's cute.
    This varies between dinosaurs. For example, Ankylo's hate when there is a high population of dinosaurs in the paddock, however, Struthiomimus are easy to handle, and manage which explains why they're so cheap, and low rating - they're not a challenge.

  11. #56

    Impressive!

    I wonder if the Struthiomimus is the optimal choice for testing this: ie, if there is a species with a longer life expectancy, that breeds a bit slower, this might allow for more to be bred before the first batch reaches the end of its lifespan? Also are there any species that check less frequently what the nearby individuals next to them are doing, this might reduce lag some? Pachycephalosaurus is out because they start killing each other when stressed. Maybe sauropods care less about their surroundings due to sheer size?

  12. #57
    Something doesn't add up, I can play with thousands of npcs in Total War, but you are telling me I can't in JPE?
    Must be something missing in the discussion, because it's not because it's impossible.


  13. #58
    Why are people discussing that because a pc user capped at 600 (vastly more Dino's anyone would ever want to make and manage at one time), that concluded no herding because of consoles? It really makes no sense at all.

    As far as herding mechanics go, I just want my 3 Trikes to walk together, or my 5 Diplos/raptors.

    And to the guy that compares it to Total War, you do realise the models and animations in JWE are vastly superior and more hardware taxing than that... Right?

  14. #59
    Also don't forget that consoles run games more efficiently than PCs as the console is optimised for that purpose. A PC takes a lot of power just to run everything else in the background.

    Simole solution really, copy this test on a console. I think you'd be quite surprised with the results.

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