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Thread: The Star Citizen Thread v9

  1. #6061
    Originally Posted by dayrth View Post (Source)
    You want the Bakerloo line to Paddington then the Heathrow Express, or District line or Circle line to Victoria then Southern Rail if your going to Gatwick. If your on the Piccadilly line I suggest you change at Piccadilly Circus
    Or Thameslink - never forget Thameslink.

  2. #6062
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    Well CIG now has the technology to make pretty procedural Earth-like planets with full-scale procedural cities (mostly empty structures though)
    Then where are they?

    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    and gene splicing NPCs with millions of different faces.
    But somehow in the demo there was a moment when you saw 3 NPCs with identical faces. Again, where is this tech being used then? Also, take a look at... well... lots of other games, with the ability to make a wide range of player and NPC faces. This is nothing new. All they have done is slapped a fancy label on it and tried to claim it as never been done before. Hell, we had this in The Sims 2 and probably earlier!

    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    That is an impressive achievement.
    I don't see much impressive here, they are just doing what has been done before but claiming it as never been done before. I will give them a bit of kudos for doing the not-quite-earthlike worlds. I haven't seen an earthlike world in SC yet, but they are getting there.

    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    Space legs is very important to take Elite Dangerous to the next level. The lack of EVA in ED is why a lot of people chose SC over ED or haven't bothered with ED yet.
    I'd say its not so important for ED as many other things. As we see with SC, it takes away from the spaceship aspect of the game, and how CIG have implemented it, it actually dominates over the space sim aspect, which is a bit strange for a space sim.

    Originally Posted by Tuub t Tute View Post (Source)
    Thoughts on Space Legs:
    1) Everybody runs, everywhere...
    This is the funny thing. Take any game any if people can run, they will run. It might be cool to walk through the scanners once or twice, but only real immersion fanatics will walk. Everyone else will be running around. Of course, i understand CIG will (or have) implemented Stamina, so people will have to slow down occasionally. I've played games with stamina bars. All you end up doing is playing the run/walk minigame while waiting for the stamina bar to refil. Its largely just an annoyance.

  3. #6063

  4. #6064
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    Its important to remember that SC doesn't have Earth-like world yet either. As the previous years have shown, its only an impressive achievement if it actually ends up in the game, in a functioning manner, with stable performance. Considering the vast majority of previous impressive stuff never materialized at all, some skepticism is advised.
    for example ?

  5. #6065
    Originally Posted by Sterlino View Post (Source)
    for example ?
    The infamous kickstarter demo? The sandworm demo?

  6. #6066
    Double Elite Global Moderator Sir.Tj's Avatar
    Everyone playing nice in here?

  7. #6067
    Originally Posted by Fishy View Post (Source)
    The infamous kickstarter demo? The sandworm demo?
    we (will soon) have hurston now.. isn't better than that one ?

    and about sandworms... i hope i ll never seen such poor creature, i expect more various fantastic new creatures instead.
    we will see.

  8. #6068
    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    Well CIG now has the technology to make pretty procedural Earth-like planets with full-scale procedural cities (mostly empty structures though) and gene splicing NPCs with millions of different faces.
    There's next to nothing that would suggest they have anything of the kind. What they've show off is just a very tiny set of hand-crafted assets and some tools to replicate those.

    That is an impressive achievement.
    It would be if they ever manage to create that tech and actually implement it in something that is delivered to their customers. So far, they have yet to even be able to produce planets, much less anything on those planets that by necessity relies on (or even obviously uses) any kind of procgen tech (indeed, the tools they've shown up consistently demonstrate the opposite).

    Hell, they can't even generate the most fundamental part that could potentially make any purported tech impressive: an actual release date — never mind the procedural content.

    Frontier has yet to add such similar tech to ED. That's why we don't have Earth-like worlds yet.
    There's next to nothing to suggest either one of those either. Unlike CIG, FDev has an actual, working, and proven library of procgen tech (that does indeed produce Earth-like worlds already) — what they don't have is any kind of gameplay or game-mechanical reason why visiting Earthlike worlds would be worth the effort to implement.

    Space legs is very important to take Elite Dangerous to the next level.
    No. Space legs is wholly unimportant. This is demonstrated by every game that has ever attempted it. What turns out to actually be important is some kind of activities, mechanics, or gameplay that provide a reason to implement that type of world interaction — something worth-while to do that really cannot be done or presented in any other way.

  9. #6069
    Originally Posted by Sir.Tj View Post (Source)
    Everyone playing nice in here?
    Well one could argue there's no game to play yet.. but I guess we are

  10. #6070
    Originally Posted by Sterlino View Post (Source)
    we (will soon) have hurston now.. isn't better than that one ?

    and about sandworms... i hope i ll never seen such poor creature, i expect more various fantastic new creatures instead.
    we will see.
    His point stands. There's a track record of demo'ed stuff that failed to show up in the subsequent releases (and in some cases didn't exist at all, like the supposedly already-playable kickstarter game that was a bespoke Crytek demo as we later learned). It's difficult to believe anything until it shows up on player's hard drives.

  11. #6071
    Originally Posted by Sterlino View Post (Source)
    and about sandworms... i hope i ll never seen such poor creature, i expect more various fantastic new creatures instead.
    we will see.
    That's not going to happen. That would require a level of creativity that CIG has demonstrably proven themselves incapable of. It is derivative or nothing.

    Originally Posted by Fishy View Post (Source)
    His point stands. There's a track record of demo'ed stuff that failed to show up in the subsequent releases (and in some cases didn't exist at all, like the supposedly already-playable kickstarter game that was a bespoke Crytek demo as we later learned). It's difficult to believe anything until it shows up on player's hard drives.
    It's also rather interesting to note how minutely little their demos move forward from one year to the next. They've had the same “fiddle with arm, travel (for an exceedingly long time) to place, pick up thing, go back” gameplay-facsimile how many times now? Each time, they almost seem to show off less of a cohesive and engaging game than before, all while both the tech and the assets rapidly age.

  12. #6072
    It is impressive when it works, released in public release, testing or live otherwise.

    Otherwise is just another vertical demo big AAA publishers have done in the past and everybody loathed them for it.

    If CIG and Chris thinks that only stuff that wowed us in Cyberpunk demo was walking around he hasn't really grasped what's going on. Or it was just cheap ride on the fame of that demo, as given per CIG.

    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    It's also rather interesting to note how minutely little their demos move forward from one year to the next. They've had the same “fiddle with arm, go to play, pick up thing, go back” gameplay-facsimile how many times now? Each time, they almost seem to show off less of a cohesive and engaging game than before, all while both the tech and the assets rapidly age.
    I think we have seen variety of 'walking around in space station' demos for some third, forth year in a row now. As I said - nice environmental work, but there are no gameplay there.

  13. #6073
    Dementropy on SA forums has posted these.

    Polygon:


    Variety:


    PC Gamer:

  14. #6074
    A reaction video:


  15. #6075
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    Nope - it's not live in the PU and until CIG sort out their PU/PTU scrubbage and actually release a game I'm not going to bother.
    more fake news, and from such a trusted source too....I m shocked

    Only instead of "rubbing it in" we rely on heavy sarcasm, even for the shills this Citizencon must ve been a disaster. So many new faces finally finding their voices, its going to be a good week

    Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post (Source)
    The tech that CIG showed at CitizenCon with the procedural city, nebula, asteroids, biomes, facial animations with gene splicing (proc gen) and the amount of detail is impressive.
    The problem is its not impressive at all

    The city which was fly-out but not fly-in due to a suddenly enforced no-fly zone could as well ve been empty blocks, we dont know cuz we couldnt see. The biomes were at best textures with one landing spot marked by a wreck to have more detailed flora....still right out the Cryengine box if you ask me. The gene splicing claim is a tall one with no evidence to back it up. We are talking about a convention presentation which they probably worked on for a full year, it did have details but then not enough and not good ones for this kind of preparation. After 6 years of mostly empty promises one would think that people would ve learned their lesson instead of falling for the next claim this readily "this is real you folks" seriously?

    And you say it yourself.....after so many years all they can do is "nice graphics"? My trust is reinstated.


    Last years presentation didnt come to life. How much do you folks think THIS one will take to make a show? Are people really believing this "early days" crap and are willing to wait and more important PAY for multiple more years only to watch new fata morganas every year? Reading some of the comments readily becoming aggressive tells me "those people" actually mean the opposite of what they write but are not admitting it.


    Originally Posted by Henkka77 View Post (Source)
    Yes, i know and it doesn't matter, it comes when it's done. I have other games to play while waiting.
    This is what actually gets me. This playing other games while bashing them at the same time all the while praising and keeping up Star Citizen which under-delivers and doesnt come true on its claims. I m not sure what to call it. Its like the ONE thing you really "want" doesnt come true so you start to hate the whole world instead. /shrug


    Originally Posted by Zetta View Post (Source)
    Do they plan to have collision detection because that was one of the most annoying things in my opinion, nothing worse than seeing AI passing through each other.
    Not a stretch goal.....


    Originally Posted by MaeseDude View Post (Source)
    What SC is doing (if any of this is even remotely going to be real at some time) is ridiculous. A commute simulator... but actually, I found the whole hyper-realistic space legs approach of SC bad from the start. Even just leaving (and entering) your ship; every time you have to wait for the "getting out of the seat" animation, then walk back to your airlock (in a larger ship), lower a ramp / ladder etc. etc. That seems cool at first, but it will be come tiresome and tedious extremely fast. Especially when I'm actively exploring and, say, mining on a planet. I want to be able to get in and out of the ship in a sec, like in NMS. In order to preserve "realism" (or "fidelity"?) they might just call it some kind of teleportation technology... a pilot seat that can beam out in and out directly. But that whole walking in and out crap will only serve to keep me away from this game - if it ever becomes one.
    You seem to be a hateful dude ....maybe putting in some money....lets say.....ohh....500 bucks....will change your view on this whole matter? It seems to work for the rest of the whales and invested people. Putting money into this project turns crap to gold or thats what I m reading from various comments here.


    Originally Posted by Tuub t Tute View Post (Source)
    I try and steer clear of personal attacks on the VP of Marketing
    You know...its exactly what I expected....


    Originally Posted by Agony_Aunt View Post (Source)
    Can't SC stand on its own merits? Does it need to be compared? Can't it be criticised and discussed without pointing to another game and going nah nah nah, but this game has this instead of that?

    Someone (presumably jokingily) recently said SC better than Battlecruiser 3000. I mean, that's like saying an empty bucket is better than a bucket full of manure.
    Oh I get it. Pointing out all the wrong things surrounding SC and the lack of almost anything automatically translates into a personal offense for the fans regardless of your tone or approach. And thus they react with the same intention. Tthey try to hit you were it hurts. Be it by calling you a hater or DS fan or simply bashing the game you probably like (this is an ED forum so chances are most people like ED) just to "score" one too. Its Trumps "whataboutism" in full swing were pointing to another source's shortcomings makes your own "good".


    Originally Posted by Surefoot View Post (Source)
    Yeah right, nice strawman here. In Half Life that was one single sequence at the beginning of the game, that was used as an exposition device (show off the Black Mesa structure). Here it serves no purpose but a repetitive time sink. Unless you, o wise person, can tell us plebeians what exact purpose it serves in the context of a Space Sim.
    He got you. Dont fall for it.



    The most impressive part for me was watching Cash Roberts going "full out" on the imagination meter filling in all the details while we watched "walking simulator" and "train símulator" life on screen. Oh hey, this city is procedurally generated you folks, filled with NPCs doing their thing. We cant show you right now but its all real. Readily making up a story about mining population going to work and being responsible for the air pollution due to the simulated effects of their actions when what we saw was clearly a scripted tube-show. The transitions between active look-around sessions (jerky) and movement in between locations (smooth) also makes me believe that most of the presentation was not played life at all. There were so many instances that screamed "LOADING SCREEN" at me (the elevator ride to the hangar for example) it wasnt even funny making me doubt the major claim of SC being a fully seamless game as a whole. Maybe its seamless within the same map yeah (like the current PTU) but the game overall? Hell no.

    I noticed that after take-off from the hangar they were painstakingly going UP directly instead of using the opportunity to show off the fully procedural city in its glory and only at a certain altitude switching to gliding. This coupled with the suddenly enforced "no-fly zone" at the end of the mission forcing a very specific approach on foot showcasing a handcrafted environment (where Cash Roberts again goes all out on the make-up stuff describing homeless people and how they affect their surroundings) makes me doubt very strongly that CiG has access to the technologies they claim they have and that some voices in here praise them for. I m not saying they dont but until I get hard evidence I will remain a disbeliever.

    The "biome" was laughably overdone to a degree that it wasnt even funny anymore. The level of detail and particles probably pushed the outdated engine to its limits. Did anybody notice how after the (painful to watch) landing scene with zero gravity the front landing gear was stuck in mid-air? But the "player" reacted quickly and turned away being very careful to not turn back anymore. Still....there was a sudden tilt in the camera on approach to the wreck. Does anybody have a good explanation for this because it was very irritating and noticable to me. It got better the closer to the wreck we got being either neutralized AT the wreck or going the other way when moving past the center point. I was reminded of various Flat Earth videos outlining the effect of gravity on these peoples world model. getting farther away from the center results in perceived incline ending in a steep wall at the far end.

    So is this biome maybe a mini-map with a placed point of gravity for whatever reason (didnt affect the ship in flight to be sure) resulting in this?? It really made me scratch my head.


    The key thing about the presentation as Cosmo outlines is that we are to believe that what we saw happens in a fully detailed world generated on the fly and filled with NPCs simulating their own lives where you can participate at your own leisure. Under that condition simply riding the tram or walking the street indeed is very impressive because its not about the activity you perform. Its about the sheer potential of what you experience. Sadly....the presentation didnt provide any evidence for any of those technologies. It HINTED at them underlined by constant "this is real" comments given by Cash Roberts himself. I watched tunnels on rails, various looks out of windows featuring backdrop animated textures for all I know. I saw an elevator/tram ride which both screamed "LOADING SCREEN" at me. I never saw any of the praised details of the city further out then a hundred meters which could also be a handcrafted PoI while the rest behind it are just bland empty blocks of various size or again background textures. I realize that I have Cash Roberts "word" for all the wonderful things happening in the background but I have no visual proof for any of it.

    Just make a simple experiment. Run the presentation again with NO audio and see how impressive it is then.

    Of course it comes down to choice. if you "want" to believe that this is all real you will suck it up willingly, giving the man who potentially scams you credit. I choose to not believe CRs word alone. Too often in the past was he proved a liar but depending on how much experience you have with the man that attitude may vary. The difference is that I might think of you as a "good natured fool" for buying this, I wouldnt call you a "shill" simply for trusting somebody who doesnt deserve your trust. We can still have a discussion and I will respect your view and personal decision. It requires you to accept mine as well tho without calling me a "hater" or making ridiculing posts. Personally I would welcome a mature discussion between different viewpoints. But truth be told we had this years back and the nature of CiGs "game" ended in most pro-SC fans to leave because most if not all of the positive vibes are based on pure goodwill with next to zero evidence for any of it to be true.

    This years convention simply dangles the carrot a few additional meters away from our faces. All pomp and glory with no timeline or announcement of release. It "hints" at greatness without showing any. Todays "evidence" doesnt match past claims leading to today. I still have no evidence to the superior procedural technology Star Citizen claims to have. If you point to any of the few handcrafted moons right now i can only repeat that they look nice but dont make use of said technology. A fully seamless world would utilize clever programming to mask loading screens or make the calculations on the fly like so many other games do. Star Citizen features a rather small map of mostly nothing with a few PoI's and drops ONE MASSIVE loading screen on you at the very start which makes me believe that they load ONE BIG LEVEL instead of "the world" they claim they have at their fingertips.

    If they want to make tech demonstration then by all means.....make a tech demonstration. Not showing devs talking about fictional stuff where basic constructs or animations are running in the background in a developer environment. Thats not what a tech-demo is. If you want to make a presentation then by all means MAKE a presentation. Cyberpunks trailer was showing the kind of gameplay you could expect, all of it probably in a highly controlled environment as well and partly on rails also but for a presentation it at least LOOKED awesome (the whole point of a presentation IMO). Compared to that SCs presentation is like a sitting duck trying to compete against a soaring eagle.

    The only accomplishment Star Citizen has today in my opinion is the PTU which represents a tech-demo in my eyes. Sadly it didnt really evolve or improve from that point after several years. Instead more and more "stuff" is put on mostly in an oral capacity all the while asking people for more patience and trust in lack of actual content.

    We are in the 7th year of development by now. Yet by Cash Roberts own words these are "early days". After all that time with multiple occasions where CiG made its backers believe a release is imminent AND 200 million dollars probably gone entirely (points to all the ongoing ship sales indicating a need for continuous funding) I find that remark highly offensive. Of course I have no hard evidence for CR "playing" people like a con artist but I do know for a fact that so many claims in the past have never come to fruition which makes me extremely wary of current claims and their validity.

    The lack of respect and toxic reactions when coming in contact with the more fanatical side of the SC community doesnt help the cause either of course. And truth be told dealing with trolls and shills is getting very tiresome. This "thing" will play itself out eventually. Nothing I do or write will probably change the outcome. We could have an interesting discussion or exchange of opinions in the meantime but I realize that a looooong time has passed by now and most of the interesting things have been said already. And theres also the thing that there are so many things we can point to NOW which dont work or bug out but pretty much all of the "good stuff" is based on words and claims alone. The bible never nourished me enough to keep my faith after my initial christian upbringing. I dont "hate" religion but I chose not to live my life around one. I do the same with Star Citizen.

    Especially as we are talking about a video game which by all means will at best be a temporary BLIP and not the everlasting all-trumping über-game many people make it out to be. Star Citizen already is niche. You could argue that it addresses Space Sim, FPS, sandbox and Sim-life players but then, every individual part of it simply SUCKS compared to any of the full titles in its own genre. Why would a FPS player endure all the boring crap only to play a subpar FPS part of the game when he can chose from so many "real" FPS games on the market? The same counts for everything else. Oh I get it, the potential of combining all these different things into one package. The truth tho is that Star Citizen combines or rather "tries to combine" multiple underdeveloped themes into one scenario. Right now pretty much everything is running bad or is very underwhelming (flight model, ingame economy, UI, FPS) and extremely limited so calling people who claim it will take YEARS/DECADES to make this dream true "haters" isnt really appropriate when they are simply realistic.

    I can believe that people WANT a game like Star Citizen. I probably would too. A "good" game of course, and I realize that simply because CiG is not the company to make it doesnt mean such a game will never appear on the landscape. It might take another few years and it most likely be a different company (maybe even one of those dreaded "publishers") but technology advances making such mega-projects possible when you combine tech and knowledge and fund it enough.

    Funding isnt the problem when it comes to Star Citizen. Technology? Arguable. Many aspects of the game are already reality in currently released games and we have projects running alongside Star Citizen which are trying to accomplish the same and doing a better job IMO. Knowledge is the big bummer here. I see a company which had problems with a delta launcher. I see a company which continually implements tier zero variations without ever advancing any of them simply slapping together raw ideas without the capacity to overcome the resulting complications. I see a company which when it has enough existing problems on its table desperately points to the NEXT BIG THING to distract from its current poor form. I cannot see a clear line of development in this mess. Focus jumps all the time. New things that nobody asked for or was interested in appear suddenly out of the blue. It all helps to spur the "dream" but nothing of it helps with actual game development.

    Calls for being an active scam were tinfoil territory in the beginning. Initial doubters could as well be called haters or pessimists (no doubt DS has a personal bone to pick). But its been many years by now and the changes in direction and sudden switches throughout the development makes me believe that this game will never see the light of day, cannot overcome the difficulties it have created itself and deliver anything that might compete with any of the current games coming out and running a profit. Its by now simply a dead project and the CEO of the company tries to keep hold of all the people who cannot face reality and decide to keep dreaming. At this point its predatory scamming and not innocent exaggeration. In hind sight WE KNOW that CRoberts appeared on stage claiming conditions and existing things that simply didnt exist at the time. He was outright lying in order to keep the machine running. Thats what I think of when I listen to him saying "its all real" this time around.

    As I said.....this thing will run itself out in time. The only variation in the outcome will be the total of the bill and the number of years filled with wasted trust and hopes. In the meantime we will pass the intermediate drag with jokes and bantering. Pretty much every game does this in between DLCs or succeeding titles but at least people can actually PLAY a game in the meantime. Maybe that explains the extreme toxicity when it comes to Star Citizen. Its not a game, its not "leading" in anything tangible so being confronted with the truth hurts and people react as if stung.

    Let me point out again that my own view and stance on this matter isnt directed at the people who chose to believe. I blame CRoberts and CiG directly for what I think they are doing. There is no need to attack me personally or ridicule me in any capacity for having an opinion different to your own. You are free to disregard it of course but "think, not tell" as my mother taught me. If you call a person an "idiot" in the street you probably will get a reaction. Thats what we are looking at when we observe various comment sections. By now most of it is initiated by trolls of course having a good time. This thread has its fair share of those as well


    Anyway...peace out.