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Thread: The Star Citizen Thread v9

  1. #6661
    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    The whole point of emergent gameplay is that in is not designed. By very definition.
    Star Citizen is emergent, then. QED. ^^

  2. #6662
    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    Players just choosing to interact in a specific way is not emergent, nor really gameplay — it's just players socialising.
    This is a key concept. Talking about the game on other media (forums, etc.), make pretend role playing, are not emergent properties. A new gameplay concept has to appear in the game itself, out of intrinsic properties and interactions.

    Originally Posted by Skizomeuh View Post (Source)
    Star Citizen is emergent, then. QED. ^^
    I know it's meant as a joke, but if we consider the state of this game, if by some miracle people find a way to create a proper game loop out of this unfinished mess, then it's indeed emergent. It's not always a good thing though..

  3. #6663
    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    This is a pretty important point. It's silly how often the term is not just misused, but outright abused — in relation to SC as well as other games. Any time you hear a developer talking about “emergent gameplay” as part of the design, you can immediately dismiss it as braindead and incompetent jargon and that it will fail to do what the developer claims.

    The whole point of emergent gameplay is that it is not designed. By very definition.
    Designing or implementing emergent gameplay is a contradiction in terms.

    Emergent gameplay is what happens when you have designed a whole set of game dynamics or mechanics, and the players turn around and create something wholly unforeseen — even unforeseeable — out of those seemingly disjointed parts. Emergence as a term has been around for yonks, and it is exactly that: unintended (in a positive or negative sense) outcomes of the internal interactions of a complex system. If it's purposefully built-in and intended, it immediately ceases to be emergent. If you provide tools and someone builds something with it, it is also not emergent — after all, that creation is the whole purpose of those tools.

    Emergent gameplay is the players take a combat game, ignore the combat, and turn it into a racing game because it turns out the vehicles are really fun to use that way (cf. Planetside's ANT races). Or when players take a mechanic meant to enable loot drops, and turn it into a mining yield booster (cf. EVE's can mining). Or when a boss area debuff accidentally also affects NPCs and becomes a plague (cf. WoW's corrupted blood). Conversely, emergent gameplay must also rest on something more than just social convention. Players just choosing to interact in a specific way is not emergent, nor really gameplay — it's just players socialising. That core foundation of game mechanics being “misused” in creative ways to create new in-game dynamics is a critical part of it all.
    Well said and it sums up Star Citizen perfectly....where the developer "hope" that their game will provide enough emergent gameplay to provide entertainment instead of designing an entertaining game in the first play.

  4. #6664
    Originally Posted by Sterlino View Post (Source)
    I wish that Elite Dangerous has such pontential feature like that one.
    I tried to propose the idea years ago, totally ignored by devs and comunity.

    What you think is useless and ugly is in fact one of the greatest idea that SC has to offer.
    You'll see in the future how much you can get from that powerful tool.
    Really?

    I can see all sorts of issues with it.

    There is the potential for trolling if it isn't done right for example.
    Not to mention the inevitable griefing
    Then there is the interest factor....there are a lot of ideas that sound good, but which don't work because the in game interest isn't there.
    Or convenience....the service beacon relies on people bring close enough to help. Some of the missions require multiple additional players and/or specific ship roles/classes/types...which has its own set of problems

    Meanwhile, in ED, there are the Fuel Rats and we have wings and...coming....squadrons which fill many of the same roles as service beacons. There is no dedicated screen or service but access to the Galactic Communication Network (i.e. the InterNet) allows real time communication with other players to arrange such side contracts.

    ED lacks a player to player payment system or a simple means to transfer goods, jettison and collect being the easiest option. But, while there would be benefits to having such a system, there are also gameplay and balance issues involved....and Star Citizen doesn't appear to have considered those. That's why a lot of games restrict player trade...essentially forbidden or awkward in ED, or limited to meaningless items, such as the difference between Gold and Soulbound items in WoW.

    You see this as one of the greatest ideas of Star Citizen? Cool. Good for you. I see it as another idea that has potential but which hasn't been clearly defined or thought through and which has great potential for good or ill. There is huge potential for abuse here and no apparent thought as to how to safely integrate it into the game...or even whether such a system is good for the game at all. Its simply another idea CR thought sounded good and decided to add without considering the ramifications and its inclusion simply underscores that the game is being crafted without any sort of coherent design to support it.

  5. #6665
    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    Emergent gameplay is the players take a combat game, ignore the combat, and turn it into a racing game because it turns out the vehicles are really fun to use that way (cf. Planetside's ANT races).
    Who else remembers carrying Elrond to get you out of the goblins dungeon and slaughtering all it's inhabitants by throwing a dead Gollum at them, after you got him eaten by the Warg?

  6. #6666
    Originally Posted by Tippis View Post (Source)
    Emergent gameplay is what happens when you have designed a whole set of game dynamics or mechanics, and the players turn around and create something wholly unforeseen — even unforeseeable — out of those seemingly disjointed parts. Emergence as a term has been around for yonks, and it is exactly that: unintended (in a positive or negative sense) outcomes of the internal interactions of a complex system. If it's purposefully built-in and intended, it immediately ceases to be emergent. If you provide tools and someone builds something with it, it is also not emergent — after all, that creation is the whole purpose of those tools.
    This is where it becomes tricky. Is ensuring that NPCs have responses towards Thargoids in ED makes kaiting them to stations not emergent? Good question.

    I think I would like to see more open ended gameplay - where eventuality is predicted and worked around, but it is still down to players to mix and match elements to make it work.

  7. #6667
    Oh, my goodness, Face over IP and headtracking in Star Citizen is amazing!

    https://youtu.be/kKrTKlnKYro

  8. #6668
    Originally Posted by Cmdr-Wotherspoon View Post (Source)
    Oh, my goodness, Face over IP and headtracking in Star Citizen is amazing!

    https://youtu.be/kKrTKlnKYro
    Some things just can't be unseen. Dear Lord.

  9. #6669
    Originally Posted by Cmdr-Wotherspoon View Post (Source)
    Oh, my goodness, Face over IP and headtracking in Star Citizen is amazing!
    Is that Eminem with a glowing wig doing his best Eddie Izzard impersonation?

  10. #6670
    Originally Posted by Cmdr-Wotherspoon View Post (Source)
    Oh, my goodness, Face over IP and headtracking in Star Citizen is amazing!

    https://youtu.be/kKrTKlnKYro
    That looks awful....

    Or is that just me?

    Are your settings turned down?

  11. #6671
    Originally Posted by Asp Explorer View Post (Source)
    Who else remembers carrying Elrond to get you out of the goblins dungeon and slaughtering all it's inhabitants by throwing a dead Gollum at them, after you got him eaten by the Warg?
    If that's the same Hobbit I played, I didn't make it that far!

  12. #6672
    Originally Posted by Wotthe Dickens View Post (Source)
    If that's the same Hobbit I played, I didn't make it that far!
    Maybe fire up an emulator and revisit Once you realise the whole game is a database, that's where the fun begins!

    There's MOAR gameplay in that 48k then CIG can pack into 43.6Gb

    It's beyond sad, really.

  13. #6673
    Originally Posted by Cmdr-Wotherspoon View Post (Source)
    Oh, my goodness, Face over IP and headtracking in Star Citizen is amazing!
    I never really understood this - aren't we all geeks who lack the finer skills of charismatic facial posturing? I'd much rather just press an emoji button and let the computer smile for me. If I had a camera copying my face while playing a game, it would be something between this



    and this


  14. #6674
    Originally Posted by Old Duck View Post (Source)
    I never really understood this - aren't we all geeks who lack the finer skills of charismatic facial posturing? I'd much rather just press an emoji button and let the computer smile for me. If I had a camera copying my face while playing a game
    Also I really doubt any charismatic face can undo uncanny valley which comes from seeing relatively believable but still limited facial transformation but having basically no tracking of eyeballs and lids.

    Yes some of tracking is really cool, but it just makes so jarring effect that it is not applicable. It looks terrifying.

    Emotes > this.

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