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Thread: Joystick Recommendations

  1. #46
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    I intend to get one of these when I can afford it: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbr...ightstick.html
    I have one on pre-order. Shipping tomorrow, hopefully!

    I also have a Warthog, and VPC T-50. The Warthog grip with the T-50 base is truly a special combo...

    Z...

  2. #47
    I been using the X52 pro for a couple of years now, maybe more ?! It has all the buttons and mini-sticks you’ll ever need. The one I use for thruster control is superbly placed, you can combine the throttle and thrust independently but together on the throttle control. And the main stick has twist control for yaw, which Frontier have added the animation for in the cockpit.

    Some people have had trouble with reliability issues with these, but mine has given me good service. (Touch wood-fingers crossed)
    I think it’s still available ... https://www.logitechg.com/en-gb/prod...tor-controller

    Flimley

  3. #48
    Originally Posted by Flimley View Post (Source)
    It has all the buttons and mini-sticks you’ll ever need
    The X52 ministick is really not that good compared to any of the alternatives (T16000M FCS, X56, CH Pro Throttle, etc).

  4. #49
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    The X52 ministick is really not that good compared to any of the alternatives (T16000M FCS, X56, CH Pro Throttle, etc).
    There is one (mouse) ministick on the throttle that moves assigned entities around the screen far too quickly, and I’ve never worked out how to slow that down? Therefore so it’s pretty unusable in Elite. Are the equivalents more controllable on the other flight controllers Morbad?
    But all the other hat controls are placed superbly and work well I find.

    Flimley

  5. #50
    Originally Posted by Flimley View Post (Source)
    There is one (mouse) ministick on the throttle that moves assigned entities around the screen far too quickly, and I’ve never worked out how to slow that down? Therefore so it’s pretty unusable in Elite. Are the equivalents more controllable on the other flight controllers Morbad?
    But all the other hat controls are placed superbly and work well I find.

    Flimley
    I suspect that nip is less meant to be a mini stick and more like one of those old laptop mouse pointers we had before touchpad and they barely worked for that.

    Add bad drivers and hefty cost cutting and that most games just don't work great with this input type and we have what we have.

    I am really hoping the Virpil throttle can come in a mini stick variety, I really love the look of it.

    As it is currently I have no real reason to switch my CH pro throttle.

    As for CH.
    Their QA did take a dive, after they cut up and moved their factories to Mexico.

  6. #51

    I moved from the T-Flight X to the T16000M HOTAS

    In summary, yes I am pleased with the T16000M HOTAS, but it's not a clear-cut 'victory' over the T-Flight X, and it has made me appreciate all the more the quality and value for money that the T-Flight represents. So if budget is key then I think you can buy the T-Flight safe in the knowledge that you're not missing much. I am however, on balance, (just about) happy with spending a wee bit more on the T-16000.

    Summary over, here are the notes I jotted down - please note I've not used Thrustmaster's TARGET software, nor have I tinkered with tensions - I've used the HOTAS exactly as it came out of the box.

    Three top tips before installing your new joystick:
    1. Save your current control bindings before you do anything.
    2. Get yourself into space before installing a new joystick, as the first take-off can be 'interesting' when you discover how many axis need to be inverted.
    3. Don't be afraid to use notepad++ to compare your old and new bindings and use manual editing - it can save a huge amount of time.

    So, in order here's what I jotted down (where + is good, - is not good, = is just a thing):

    + Good sturdy feel
    = Larger foot print
    + Neither as prone to tipping
    -- Buttons have the same names on both controllers when editing in-game. E.g button 5 on the throttle and button 5 on the joystick are both called 'joy 5'... <sigh...>
    - The default configuration for the T16000 is massively (and overly imho) complex so if you want to define your own, I found that (re)starting with a blank setup was sensible, and less painful.
    - Remapping controls is a real pain in the bottom, and will take a good couple of hours.
    -- Remapping reveals some horrible aspects to the control mapping dialogue in-game.
    --- Remapping can loose all your existing key-binds, making the whole thing even more of a 'flipping' pain. No really, don't underestimate how 'flapping' tedious this all is!
    + Pinky rotary control on the throttle is great for scanner range.
    = Joystick has a greater range of movement over the T-Flight.
    + Joystick has greater fine control and 'feels right' (for me) in use.
    + Joystick feels great and to be of better quality over the T-Flight and so does the trigger - which I think looks quite flimsy, but it feels good.
    - Joystick is not as ergonomic. I have large hands and the hand-rest is lower than on the T-Flight, which makes it a centimetre too low for me. The ancillary buttons are nowhere near as well laid out as they are on the T-Flight.
    - I've yet to find a way of having analogue yaw control running in parallel from the joystick and throttle. However, this is less of an issue than you might imagine as I have mapped the throttle's paddle to be digital yaw control, and this actually works well enough.
    ++ The analogue 'mini joystick' on the throttle is an absolute joy to use (for thrusters).
    + Overall there are more buttons on this combo that you'll ever need, or remember!
    + The button placement on the throttle is good for my large hands.
    --- Who in hell invented the damn light on the base of the damn joystick that damn-well comes on every damn time the damn joystick moves?! To 'fix' this you'll need to remove the base and do some de-soldering (or wire cutting) it's a <insert own swears> stupid feature that does nothing but <insert own swears> distract me.
    = The throttle has no 50% indent, however this hasn't bothered me as mapping a button to the 'reverse throttle' works fine and has unexpected benefits...
    ++ The 'reverse throttle' toggle sets the throttle to zero when in super-cruise. This is unexpectedly very very handy when doing a bit of exploring.
    - The throttle has a broad base and if the table surface is not 100% even and flat, it will not sit evenly and will be prone to minor wobbling and slipping. This is really quite irritating!
    - The throttle's movement is very noticeably not as uniformly and buttery smooth in use as the T-Flights. Matters do improve once you've adjusted to the throttle moving in a horizontal plane, but the mild stutter/stick when attempting fine changes persists.
    + The throttle as a much broader range of movement (if used as 'forward-only') and with greater fine control.
    = The joystick is trivially firmer/stiffer. I prefer this 'stiffer' feel, but it's worth noting.
    --- There is a very very irritating couple of millimetres play in the joystick's twist-to-yaw. It may be me, but it seems to be getting worse after only half a dozen or so session. If it gets worse, or if I just can't put up with it, then the stick is going back - whereas after 5 years my T-Flight still has zero play in that axis.

  7. #52
    Originally Posted by Flimley View Post (Source)
    Are the equivalents more controllable on the other flight controllers Morbad?
    Much more.

  8. #53

    Joys of stick

    I have bought 2 x Thrustmaster A-10 sets myself. Mounted them on the Obutto R3V desks in the living room. They last better than 3000 hours without needing much repair. I have considered switching to VKB https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gunfighter-mk-ii They do have a Space version coming out in the next few months as well.

    And if going with the Thrustmaster.... I suggest checking out the script and extensive programming by Aussiedroid: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...Warthog-Script

  9. #54
    Originally Posted by Zeeman View Post (Source)
    I have one on pre-order. Shipping tomorrow, hopefully!

    I also have a Warthog, and VPC T-50. The Warthog grip with the T-50 base is truly a special combo...

    Z...
    Please write up a review of it here. There are so many things I need/want, but may need to compromise.

    I need a new GPU too, but thinking that the 1160 maybe between a 1080 and 1080ti. My reasoning it this. The 1180 is meant to be about 10-15% better then the 1080ti. A 1170 should be roughly in the same area as a 1080ti. Then the 1160 could be above a 1080. And it may only cost around 250-300. Keeping my fingers crossed.

    Then I will need to get a new Flighstick. My X52 pro is beginning to play up a bit.

  10. #55
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    Please write up a review of it here. There are so many things I need/want, but may need to compromise.

    I need a new GPU too, but thinking that the 1160 maybe between a 1080 and 1080ti. My reasoning it this. The 1180 is meant to be about 10-15% better then the 1080ti. A 1170 should be roughly in the same area as a 1080ti. Then the 1160 could be above a 1080. And it may only cost around 250-300. Keeping my fingers crossed.

    Then I will need to get a new Flighstick. My X52 pro is beginning to play up a bit.
    It's not.
    At most the 1160 will between a 1070 and a 1080.

  11. #56
    Originally Posted by TorTorden View Post (Source)
    It's not.
    At most the 1160 will between a 1070 and a 1080.
    We shall see. I will keep my fingers crossed. None of know the correct figure yet (unless you have samples or work for Nvidia).

  12. #57
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    Please write up a review of it here. There are so many things I need/want, but may need to compromise.

    I need a new GPU too, but thinking that the 1160 maybe between a 1080 and 1080ti. My reasoning it this. The 1180 is meant to be about 10-15% better then the 1080ti. A 1170 should be roughly in the same area as a 1080ti. Then the 1160 could be above a 1080. And it may only cost around 250-300. Keeping my fingers crossed.

    Then I will need to get a new Flighstick. My X52 pro is beginning to play up a bit.
    Will do, but won't be until early August, as I'm headed overseas for a few weeks in a couple of days.

    Z...

  13. #58
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    If you are overcompensating with the mouse, you are almost certainly going to be overcompensating with a stick. I can feel the position of the Fighterstick pretty well and smooth adjustments are easy, but quick corrections are challenging with almost any full size stick because of the time it takes to reverse an input without overcompensating in the other direction.
    True enough. I think it's because I change ships too often, so I'm bunging my muscle memory by changing flight profiles too often, and also I just can't use relative mouse and stay sane in supercruise, so I'm FA-off with normal mouse and have to kill my thrusters with a key. It's waaay easier with relative mouse and I'd certainly use it but for it really not being pleasant in supercruise. So I'm hoping the HOTAS will just combine the two profiles nicely.

  14. #59
    Originally Posted by Para Handy View Post (Source)
    CH Pro stuff = great.

    1. Fighterstick moving on the desk - well all it needs is for you to keep the four rubber / synthetic pads clear of dust and it stays rock-solid. No need to go hammering six-inch nails through it to keep it in place. The same is true of the Throttle - actually more so since you are pushing it back and forward - honestly I have no issues at all as long as I wipe-off dust from the rubber pads every so often. It is actually quite surprising how well these work so I am amazed at people feeling the need to modify. (N.B. These are small circular pads / feet - no suckers on this stuff - really adhere well to smooth surfaces.)

    2. Reliability - I have used CH stuff for many years - I have a yoke and pedals that are still going strong in flight sims. Although made from synthetic materials, the Throttle and Fighterstick feel very comfortable and not "plasticy" like TM 16000M does - it feels like glass-fibre composite (their industrial products certainly are "glass-filled nylon"). The internal "gubbins" is for sure old-tech now but is of really good quality (CH make industrial controls and these designs incorporate that quality). I have had one occurrence of a supplied stick being defective in that the springs in the stick gimbal were noisy, it still worked OK but I had the stick replaced free anyway.

    3. Sensors and 8-bit"ness" - although not using hall-effect, the pots in the CH stuff are really good so you get perfectly acceptable outputs. Let's face it we are talking about providing HID-compliant range data not CNC milling-machine controls. However, CH do make industrial joysticks using hall-effect sensors, it would be good if they updated the consumer product range.

    4. Throttle mini-stick - yes this can be an annoyance, I have to give a null-zone as it doesn't centre as precisely as I would like but I have no issues with the range available, after all the calibration software in windeys gives me full-scale deflection for whatever a controller's full-scale actually is (i.e.game controller software process scales the actual output to requisite numbers). Drilling out the housing aperture to give a bigger actual "throw" is not necessary in my view. (I use it for thruster control and for turret movement - works a treat.) BTW - I do have a dead-zone set for the mini-stick but it is not large, it centres just fine - you don't have to "nudge" it to get the centre, it just needs a bit of "tolerance" by way of a dead-zone.

    5. Software - I don't use any software, CH control manager is not necessary and people have reported compatibility issues between it and programs for ever. Windo$e calibration is all that is needed to give effective control in E D. Any requirement for changing axes' response curves (slopes) could be made using other software - for example in Flight Simulators I use control-input plug-ins (FSUIPC etc) but don't see a need in E D but there are apps out there.


    TL/DR - No downsides, CH Pro throttle will outlast you.
    As some additional notes, from a CH Pro throttle user...

    The 8 bit thing isn't too much of an issue as far as the throttle is concerned, you simply don't need that fine a control in ED. Sure, 10, 12 or 14 bit would be nice for a smoother feel, but really, not an issue.

    The general throttle layout, for a single throttle, is excellent, and all buttons are easily accessed in flight, and are fairly well placed. Quality of the buttons is nice, and they feel good to press.

    In terms of quality, the thing is well built, arguably better built than the Warthog throttle, however, some catches...

    It's very light and plasticky, which means it can slide around if you get over enthusiastic. I have a chair set up with attachments I've put on the arms for my stick and throttle to res ton. For this particular set up (I have two), theWarthog Stick (with the metal base of my old Cobra M5, because the Warthog base plate was too big) is screwed into the right hand attachment.

    The left hand attachment has the CH Pro throttle attached, and seeing as there is no way to properly secure it, it just sits there. Usually, it's OK, but when things get particularly exciting, I've had my throttle slip from it's position, causing a bit of a headache mid battle. It's simply too light, and lacks a proper way to mount.

    The feel of the throttle motion itself is kinda toy-like. It's just plastic sliding on loose plastic with no real feel for anything. Sure, it works, but it does feel "cheap". Compared to the Warthog, which has adjustable friction for the throttle motion, it really does feel like junk.

    Now, having said that, the CH Pro is still (currently) my top pick for ED. The thumbstick is well located (and mine centres well, fortunately), and, as mentioned above, the button layout is well placed and the buttons themselves are nice. I'm awaiting the Virpil throttle with analog stick, which will hopefully unify my Warthog and CH Pro throttles so I not longer need to swap between DCS and ED, but until then...

    Z...

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