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Thread: Why benches, bathrooms and trash cans are not needed

  1. #31
    Originally Posted by BanzaiZAP View Post (Source)
    Planet Coaster did not have jeeps and dinosaurs that can run around OFF the paths. How would one bench affect the Jeep? Can the jeep drive over it? Does it knock over trash cans, or would a single trash can stop a jeep cold? Now how about a small dinosaur? How about a large carnivore? How about a sauropod? Would a trash can stop a diplodocus cold?

    Now what happens when the darn Player puts a whole ring of trash cans around the enclosure, then deletes the fences? Can you have an impenetrable line of trash cans? Or maybe just make all these items non-interactive, so the jeep just drives right through them. Which leads to Players whining about the clipping issues. This is the type of thing that needs to be resolved if you want this type of feature, and can be a bigger pain to resolve than is worth the effort.
    Dinosaurs & Jeep would be able to pass through them. Simple.

  2. #32
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I see people complaining about how these things aren't in the game. It's ridiculous cause they aren't needed. These parks are supposed to be high tech resorts and not your local theme park, carnival or county fair. In the game the system Frontier has is shops and restaurants go where there is demand. That means at the tourist attractions. Viewing galleries, hotels, gyrosphere stations and so on all have a food, drink,fun and shopping demand that needs to be met. Of course this is simulated guest demand. Cause this is a management simulator. So around each viewing gallery you would set down some of these shops to cover these demands. So your guests should never be that far from a restaurant where they can eat, drink, rest, or use the bathroom. So benches are not really needed, bathrooms are not needed and there is no need to put little food and drink stalls all over the paths.


    The other thing that makes these not needed is the monorail system. The monorail system pretty much nullifies these things as well, especially benches. If set up correctly your guests should never be that far from a monorail station. They can simply get on the monorail train/shuttle and be whisked off to any part of the park they choose without having to walk. The monorail stations should be in the vicinity of hotels and the shops. Now I have an issue with the use of the monorail system and I don't think it's being used the way it should.


    Having to place all these shops around every attraction, hotel and so on makes the park look like a mess. The way these things should be handled is that you should build a guest area with all the amenities in it. There should be a monorail station at this guest area and when the guests get tired, hungry/thirsty, bored of looking at Dinosaurs they can go to the monorail station and head back to this guest area. Once there they can do whatever they need and then get back on the monorail and head back out into the park, where they choose to go. In this case maybe some bathroom stalls would be a good idea on the paths so guests don't have to get back on a monorail just to use the bathroom. This is how the monorail should be used. Right now having to put down all these guest amenities at every attraction is a waste of space and makes for some terrible looking parks and making good looking parks is important. Just look at any real life parks. Aesthetics do matter. No one wants to visit a park that looks like a dump.
    Originally Posted by JBento View Post (Source)
    Counterpoint: the only thing that's not needed are restrooms (which, ironically, are very much the ones that existed canonically in JP).

    You still need trash cans for guest-generated litter (like chocolate wrappers and paper tissues) and you still need benches, because sometimes people just want to sit down outside and enjoy the fresh air while listening to the melodic concerto provided by the orchestra of all species of hadrosaurians bellowing in a single enclosure.
    I think there is a happy medium here. I think what people want are these items to further design their park, but what the OP is worried about is these items suddenly being connected to guest needs and thus run the risk of having to litter the park with items because the math says that a bench needs to be here and not here, and screws up other players desire to keep a "clean" park.

    the happy medium is this, make these items decorative. Guests will interact with them but they neither contribute nor detract from the guest need counters. That way if you want to design your park for the elite, to be efficient and clean and devoid of distraction then you can. If you want to make your park a 3-ring circus, with hotdog and churro stands, with a park employee dressed as a purple Trex for the kiddies, that's your choice.

    I personally think both views have merit and both views can be satisfied with this happy medium.

  3. #33
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I see people complaining about how these things aren't in the game. It's ridiculous cause they aren't needed. These parks are supposed to be high tech resorts and not your local theme park, carnival or county fair. In the game the system Frontier has is shops and restaurants go where there is demand. That means at the tourist attractions. Viewing galleries, hotels, gyrosphere stations and so on all have a food, drink,fun and shopping demand that needs to be met. Of course this is simulated guest demand. Cause this is a management simulator. So around each viewing gallery you would set down some of these shops to cover these demands. So your guests should never be that far from a restaurant where they can eat, drink, rest, or use the bathroom. So benches are not really needed, bathrooms are not needed and there is no need to put little food and drink stalls all over the paths.


    The other thing that makes these not needed is the monorail system. The monorail system pretty much nullifies these things as well, especially benches. If set up correctly your guests should never be that far from a monorail station. They can simply get on the monorail train/shuttle and be whisked off to any part of the park they choose without having to walk. The monorail stations should be in the vicinity of hotels and the shops. Now I have an issue with the use of the monorail system and I don't think it's being used the way it should.


    Having to place all these shops around every attraction, hotel and so on makes the park look like a mess. The way these things should be handled is that you should build a guest area with all the amenities in it. There should be a monorail station at this guest area and when the guests get tired, hungry/thirsty, bored of looking at Dinosaurs they can go to the monorail station and head back to this guest area. Once there they can do whatever they need and then get back on the monorail and head back out into the park, where they choose to go. In this case maybe some bathroom stalls would be a good idea on the paths so guests don't have to get back on a monorail just to use the bathroom. This is how the monorail should be used. Right now having to put down all these guest amenities at every attraction is a waste of space and makes for some terrible looking parks and making good looking parks is important. Just look at any real life parks. Aesthetics do matter. No one wants to visit a park that looks like a dump.
    Have you ever been to a theme park in your life, in fact have you ever been out of the house?

    "High-tech resort" or not, nobody wants to sit in a resturant or browse a shop and have a queue of people waiting to use the bathroom.

    Benches are multi-purpose, they don't exist simply because people are sick of walking. They are meeting points, picnic spots, baby changing areas, viewing areas. Old people like to sit, kids like to sit - they are a feuture of every day life - not just theme parks.

    Bins/trash cans are needed because - people litter. No high tech resort is going to prevent that.

  4. #34
    Originally Posted by Whitehair View Post (Source)
    Bathrooms are excellent hiding places in case of a breakout, and really should be available
    I agree. Would be great to see a destroyable straw bathroom for a Rex or other big dinosaur to bust down to find hiding guests.

  5. #35
    I think a bathroom system would be a realistic addition to the game. Some people would only be content if they had to send the ranger jeep periodically to empty septic tanks, but that kind of management doesn't really appeal to me. I would be happy if bathrooms were added to the guest needs, but wouldn't mind if they were simply animated decorations. Like benches and bins, adding them to the game will go a long way to improving the immersion.

  6. #36
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    Why would we need benches, trash cans and bathrooms? Did you not read what I posted above? I explained why they are not necessary. Guests can go into the restaurant or fast food shop and eat there, they can also sit down. I am sure the fast food place has trash cans guests can throw their garbage into and the restaurant probably cleans it up for you. Also there will be bathrooms in these places. Guests wont be walking around the park throwing garbage every where.
    You've never been to a theme park or zoo, have you? It doesn't matter how high-end the park is, you still need bathrooms, garbage cans, and benches for guest comfort. Restaurants and shops would be bottle-necked with guests who are only there for the restrooms if there weren't separate facilities. And if you are dining, would you really want a constant stream of people walking by you? People want to just sit and relax when they get tired; they don't expect to have to walk a half-mile to the nearest restaurant (where they'd have to make a purchase) just to sit down. And high-end or not, people are pigs, and trash would be everywhere. And yes, these same people are the ones that would complain about the lack of cleanliness.

  7. #37
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I see people complaining about how these things aren't in the game. It's ridiculous cause they aren't needed. These parks are supposed to be high tech resorts and not your local theme park, carnival or county fair. In the game the system Frontier has is shops and restaurants go where there is demand. That means at the tourist attractions. Viewing galleries, hotels, gyrosphere stations and so on all have a food, drink,fun and shopping demand that needs to be met. Of course this is simulated guest demand. Cause this is a management simulator. So around each viewing gallery you would set down some of these shops to cover these demands. So your guests should never be that far from a restaurant where they can eat, drink, rest, or use the bathroom. So benches are not really needed, bathrooms are not needed and there is no need to put little food and drink stalls all over the paths.


    The other thing that makes these not needed is the monorail system. The monorail system pretty much nullifies these things as well, especially benches. If set up correctly your guests should never be that far from a monorail station. They can simply get on the monorail train/shuttle and be whisked off to any part of the park they choose without having to walk. The monorail stations should be in the vicinity of hotels and the shops. Now I have an issue with the use of the monorail system and I don't think it's being used the way it should.


    Having to place all these shops around every attraction, hotel and so on makes the park look like a mess. The way these things should be handled is that you should build a guest area with all the amenities in it. There should be a monorail station at this guest area and when the guests get tired, hungry/thirsty, bored of looking at Dinosaurs they can go to the monorail station and head back to this guest area. Once there they can do whatever they need and then get back on the monorail and head back out into the park, where they choose to go. In this case maybe some bathroom stalls would be a good idea on the paths so guests don't have to get back on a monorail just to use the bathroom. This is how the monorail should be used. Right now having to put down all these guest amenities at every attraction is a waste of space and makes for some terrible looking parks and making good looking parks is important. Just look at any real life parks. Aesthetics do matter. No one wants to visit a park that looks like a dump.
    You're missing the point entirely. People want more management, and keeping parks clean and tidy has always been a staple in tycoon genre games.

    Yes, toilets are not necessary in this game. However Bins, janitors, gardeners, benches and even security guards to stop graffiti and damage when park cleanliness drops too low would be perfect additions.

    Your focusing too much on the toilet thing, which served a purpose as a place for people to vomit in theme park tycoon titles.

  8. #38
    Maybe not trash cans or benches, but some kind of decorations would be cool.

  9. #39
    Originally Posted by Calavera999 View Post (Source)
    However Bins, janitors, gardeners, benches and even security guards to stop graffiti and damage when park cleanliness drops too low would be perfect additions.
    I've got some bad news for you, sunshine...if they added those to the game you'd have to manually control them, just like you do now with rangers.
    Changing that would be a major re-work of the game code. Adding them for purely cosmetics is fine (which of course means they are optional), but once you add functionality (which is not optional) to them not only is a major software undertaking, but you are going to annoy people that are fine with the way it is.

  10. #40
    Originally Posted by okxt2jzdjsrz View Post (Source)
    I've got some bad news for you, sunshine...if they added those to the game you'd have to manually control them, just like you do now with rangers.
    Changing that would be a major re-work of the game code. Adding them for purely cosmetics is fine (which of course means they are optional), but once you add functionality (which is not optional) to them not only is a major software undertaking, but you are going to annoy people that are fine with the way it is.
    I don’t think so. If they added more worker types they would very likely bring with it at least a rebalance (and maybe even revamp) of “Scheduling”. You might be able to drive a cleaning crew cart around like you can with the Jeep, but the more they add the more likely they’ll deepen staff management.

  11. #41
    Originally Posted by Aramus418 View Post (Source)
    I don’t think so. If they added more worker types they would very likely bring with it at least a rebalance (and maybe even revamp) of “Scheduling”. You might be able to drive a cleaning crew cart around like you can with the Jeep, but the more they add the more likely they’ll deepen staff management.
    But, that's what YOU may like. Others may get annoyed with just another ranger with a new name.

    No, cosmetics (ie, optional instead of forced functional) is the only compromise.

    And, I can't repeat this too many times:
    Overhauling the game to the extent that people are "expecting" to happen is not going to happen. Not for free anyway (at best your saved games and progress will be scrapped).

    This may not be the best thread to admit this, but I'm pretty much done as well. The game is good for about 20 hours, and maybe go back once a month (above an average game; and I've got LITERALLY thousands of games I can play on almost a dozen systems in my collection over the last 40 years). I doubt Frontier cares. This isn't a "game as a service" that far too many games are nowadays. Frontier/Universal/Microsoft got my money already, and if I never play again it's no skin off their teeth.

  12. #42
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I see people complaining about how these things aren't in the game. It's ridiculous cause they aren't needed. These parks are supposed to be high tech resorts and not your local theme park, carnival or county fair. In the game the system Frontier has is shops and restaurants go where there is demand. That means at the tourist attractions. Viewing galleries, hotels, gyrosphere stations and so on all have a food, drink,fun and shopping demand that needs to be met. Of course this is simulated guest demand. Cause this is a management simulator. So around each viewing gallery you would set down some of these shops to cover these demands. So your guests should never be that far from a restaurant where they can eat, drink, rest, or use the bathroom. So benches are not really needed, bathrooms are not needed and there is no need to put little food and drink stalls all over the paths.


    The other thing that makes these not needed is the monorail system. The monorail system pretty much nullifies these things as well, especially benches. If set up correctly your guests should never be that far from a monorail station. They can simply get on the monorail train/shuttle and be whisked off to any part of the park they choose without having to walk. The monorail stations should be in the vicinity of hotels and the shops. Now I have an issue with the use of the monorail system and I don't think it's being used the way it should.


    Having to place all these shops around every attraction, hotel and so on makes the park look like a mess. The way these things should be handled is that you should build a guest area with all the amenities in it. There should be a monorail station at this guest area and when the guests get tired, hungry/thirsty, bored of looking at Dinosaurs they can go to the monorail station and head back to this guest area. Once there they can do whatever they need and then get back on the monorail and head back out into the park, where they choose to go. In this case maybe some bathroom stalls would be a good idea on the paths so guests don't have to get back on a monorail just to use the bathroom. This is how the monorail should be used. Right now having to put down all these guest amenities at every attraction is a waste of space and makes for some terrible looking parks and making good looking parks is important. Just look at any real life parks. Aesthetics do matter. No one wants to visit a park that looks like a dump.
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    It's not assuming anything. If you have ever been in a restaurant or even a fast food place they have seats. You can sit down in McDonalds while you eat their terrible food. You can also use the bathroom. Matter of fact all the different guest buildings should have bathrooms. So there isn't much to assume. The parks already look cluttered with having to place all these amenities everywhere so is no need to place even more clutter in the parks to take up even more space which we don't have much of anyway.
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    Why would we need benches, trash cans and bathrooms? Did you not read what I posted above? I explained why they are not necessary. Guests can go into the restaurant or fast food shop and eat there, they can also sit down. I am sure the fast food place has trash cans guests can throw their garbage into and the restaurant probably cleans it up for you. Also there will be bathrooms in these places. Guests wont be walking around the park throwing garbage every where.
    Personally, I think having vendors so close to enclosures is a bad idea. I wouldn't want to stand by a Raptor paddock eating a burger. I'd be afraid the Raptors would smell the food and try harder to get out, especially cause you know some idiot would try to feed them. What's the biggest no-no at zoos? Feeding the animals. Guests should be required to enter the park without food or trash. I think all the guest needs should be met at the park entrance. If they get hungry, hop on the monorail and go get something to eat. If the original movie is any indication, they didn't plan to put vendors out in the park, they intended for people to get what they needed at the visitors center. The only remote buildings were for employees. I don't see a need for benches either. The viewing galleries should have seating, so plop your butt down in the viewing area. I'd think, IF you're gonna have food available for guests outside of the main entrance, that viewing galleries would have vending machines. Maybe a small vendor, kinda like you'd find at a movie theater, could be located inside the viewing gallery. Again, guests should be required to leave all food and trash before leaving the viewing gallery. Trash cans outside of the main guest area would be a bad idea. Storms will blow them over, trash will blow all over the park, dinos will eat the trash and get sick or die.

  13. #43
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    Why would we need benches, trash cans and bathrooms? Did you not read what I posted above? I explained why they are not necessary. Guests can go into the restaurant or fast food shop and eat there, they can also sit down. I am sure the fast food place has trash cans guests can throw their garbage into and the restaurant probably cleans it up for you. Also there will be bathrooms in these places. Guests wont be walking around the park throwing garbage every where.
    No wonder he thinks thats have to manage space and strategically place restroom/benches is not a necessity in a zoo/theme park, because that opinion came from a guy who said that have to manually refill the feeder is a managerial task.
    He dont want to think strategically, he just want to follow instruction.

    Disneyland, San Diego Zoo, Universal Studios, all of them have so many restaurants/food stalls, yet they still provides a lot of benches and trash bins.
    This guy must never been in any theme park if he thinks "guests can just sit/pee in those restaurants".

    PCMR4Life way of thinking:
    Strategically place buildings and manage space to fulfill the needs of our guests: not necessary, nor its a managerial. All should be automated.
    Manually refill dino feeder every single time with no scheduling or staff workflow: deep enough managerial things.

    He loves to follow instruction:
    "Refill the feeder".
    "Reboot power station".
    "Cure sick dino".
    "Open shelter for storm".

    Simple. No vision needed.

  14. #44
    One of the reasons I like PCMR4Life's idea of centralized guest area is it significantly frees up much needed space. Rather than getting repetitive shops (which, by the way, usually not fully utilized) spreading all over places, the space can be used for other cosmetics/ features means.

    For instance, a JP safari ride will have its space available around the enclosure. So does other attractions such as boat ride station, gondola lift and others. The point is having spaces reserved near enclosures for future rides rather than repetitive guest shops.

    Additionally for JP Safari ride, I think it can be used as a tram service to travel guests around from Monorail station to other attraction rides or simply as a high tech mean of moving around.

    For cosmetics means, this one I go against the OP. I think immediate needs are still necessary - but should be done with much smaller units. At the same time, it boosts the much needed varieties as well. Alternatively, as said, an upgraded complex monorail station (coupled with benches, vending machines, toilets, kiosks, and possibly Safari stops) can also be considered.

    Finally, for those who like to maintain having shops around their enclosures, I'm not going against them. They should be allowed to do so but the requirement should be stripped down. Instead of having huge size repetitive shops all over the park as a requirement, it is better to have more variety of buildings around (within the guest area) - theater, centralized park, decorations, security posts, first-aid stations, and any things people can think of to make the park more lifelike.

    P/S - I haven't read most of the posts above. So, sorry if I get repetitive.

  15. #45
    I think benches would be a nice addition, your on the tropics, your old and knackered and you have taken your hyperactive grand children to the park as a treat with a bit of your pension pot, you were stood for a hour to get into the viewing gallery for the T-Rex you want a sit down for five minutes before your dragged off to some other things little Johnny wants to see. Just a bench for five minutes of rest but there is no benches so you want to strangle the genius who decided you don’t require a bench after you strange little Johnny who decided that P&Q’s are no longer needed and is demanding everything he bluddy sees but people keep saying it’s his adhd and not that he needs a quick clip round the ear.......

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