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Thread: Fences and Dinosaur Comfort

  1. #1

    Fences and Dinosaur Comfort

    I think the fences for the most part are broken. No matter what, dinosaurs can break them, no matter how strong the fences are. Even if an electric one tires a dinosaur out, it will come back and attack it again. We also can't build them over certain terrain unlike the spiritual predecessor of this game. You also get no warning if a fence is being attacked or damaged to the point of requiring an ACU to repair it. You get it after the fact it's broken and eating your guests.

    Speaking of which, could there be some automatic upgrade or something you can get to have ACUs automatically repair broken fences (or structures)? so the game doesn't feel like you're playing a shortcut key game of some modern RTS?

    As for comfort, this *Sometimes* works. Brachiosaurs are perhaps the biggest pests. They will complain if you have too much or too little trees.
    I've also noticed that a dinosaur can be completely comfortable in one area of your enclosure and the moment it moves to another, it becomes incredibly uncomfortable.

    Just thoughts

  2. #2
    Originally Posted by TheOwnerest View Post (Source)

    As for comfort, this *Sometimes* works. Brachiosaurs are perhaps the biggest pests. They will complain if you have too much or too little trees.
    I've also noticed that a dinosaur can be completely comfortable in one area of your enclosure and the moment it moves to another, it becomes incredibly uncomfortable.

    Just thoughts
    I was just dealing with this last night. I had three brachis in an enclosure with 100% comfort. I checked each one to make sure it was fine before moving on. About ten minutes later I get the "fence broken" message. I pan out and find a single brachi going nuts, the two others were just fine. Sometimes after the comfort gets so low, nothing can be done to fix it, and I just sell the animal.

    I've had this happen with some of my carnivores. I think I'm making the enclosures too big and the game is having trouble?

    Maybe one thing that's happening is there is a part of the enclosure that isn't perfectly comfortable and the game is glitching and the animal gets "stuck" there? I recently had a struthi glitch out and just stand by a fence until it almost died from starvation. Before that, I had a raptor get stuck by a tree. I put water and food by it, but it died from dehydration.

  3. #3
    All your points are right.

    I think Frontier should really put more time and efforts working on this aspect.

    - Different types of Dinos should react differently according to the types of fences. Different animations (a few) must also be included.
    - Warnings such as alarm sound should be given. In real world, I’m sure it should work easy enough when something trips an electric circuit. For wall/steel bar, a vibration sensor should be in place.
    - Preferably, patrolling security guards can take place on this aspect, when a Dino is charging the fences, they can give warning signals or use electric guns in attempts to stop them from going any further.
    Right now, I tried to honk them with jeeps and it seems to work (I’m not very sure though).
    - For management, rangers/engineers should do routine maintenance of the fences from time to time. It is just pure fun to include such animations. I don’t like the instant repair/restock the game is currently working. It feels unfinished.
    I’m not asking for vulnerable workers. That is a different matter.
    - When electric fences are out of power, Raptors/I-Rex/Indo-Raptor should try to climb/claw out instead.
    - For Sauropods comfort issues, Bo already said they may try to increase the detection radius. Besides my earlier idea of territorial-home concept, I think they should also looks closer to their current codes. Something else is imperfect. Separated only by a meter or so, same species Dinos detect their environments very differently.

  4. #4
    I watched a video BestInSlot did where a Struthiomimus basically broke out of an enclosure lined with the concrete wall fencing. I thought that was kind of unrealistic looking. It took along time for it to do it though. I don't know how much one of them would have weighed but I am going to say several hundred pounds maybe, 500 or more possibly.

    The fences shouldn't be unbreakable though. They are just supposed to stop the Dinosaur from breaking out long enough for you to try and stop it. But we don't get any notification of the break out. Just when the fences have been breached and the Dinosaur is lose. Which I guess is realistic.

  5. #5
    Originally Posted by PCMR4Life View Post (Source)
    I watched a video BestInSlot did where a Struthiomimus basically broke out of an enclosure lined with the concrete wall fencing. I thought that was kind of unrealistic looking. It took along time for it to do it though. I don't know how much one of them would have weighed but I am going to say several hundred pounds maybe, 500 or more possibly.

    The fences shouldn't be unbreakable though. They are just supposed to stop the Dinosaur from breaking out long enough for you to try and stop it. But we don't get any notification of the break out. Just when the fences have been breached and the Dinosaur is lose. Which I guess is realistic.
    Yeah true.. I turned off the breaking out in Sandbox, and I enjoy it. They seem (act) more happy. Maybe like many says about some sort of, captors or cameras...or behaviour experts reporting to you when needed?
    Let's say they get fixed and Camarasaurus don't go beserk like Ents in Isengard, maybe the fence break outs would be less frequent or at least expected.

  6. #6
    Wall of text is coming up. Sorry about that.

    The more I think on the subject, the better I understand the designing choices they made, and the more I think they should listen back to their customer’s interests in return.

    First, let me make this clear, Jurassic Park/World isn’t a typical zoo we are accustomed to. It is a science-fiction theme park with de-extinct animals. One of the core interests of the franchise is to make us dwell into a world to which we don’t have the slightest idea what to expect – as Dr. Alan Grant famously said.

    So, now, we as the managers of this sci-fi theme park, the fences, literally being the line separating the Dinos from the human beings or the point of contact, is surely not something we can taken for granted. This aspect of park management, should be among the first line of priorities if not the top. The reason is simple – players like me are fascinating with how we are going to contain these wonder creatures.

    Below is an elaborated version of my earlier post, intended to add depth to the management aspect. Please, do not say we don’t need micro-management, this is precisely what the game lacks the most at current stage.

    1) Different fences have different features/characteristics

    - Electrified fences should shock the Dino during contacts. This should injures them to some extent (depending on the force of contact and the dino stats). Hence, this leave them no choices but to burst-charging it (a distinct animation, instead of other animations I’m going to mention later). They should rest in between charging or perhaps quit if their health level gets too low. Moreover, comparing to non-electrified fences, the damage done should be less as the duration of contact is too short to make a calculated, precise, concerted result. The value of damage depends on the speed and force of the charging. In terms of stopping them, the entire running and charging animation that takes longer, buys us the time we need. In cases when it loses power, it simply becomes the pure steel version as of below.

    - For steel fences, a few other modes of attack should be included. First, stationary attacks may take place after the initial burst-charging (again must have the dinos injured but to a lesser extent). This is a new set of animation to which the Dino may half-swing their head, body, tail, or even uses their claws to attack the cracks in concerted effort. It takes much less time to do damage this way as the Dino don’t have to walk back to charge again. Second (I’m not sure if this is viable), dinos with longer fore limbs and slimmer body should be able to climb out or they should crawl out underneath as in TLW. It takes longer especially with the medium steel fence and the rate depends on the attack stats. No alarm signal will be tripped this way. This is the sneaky move.


    - For concrete wall, it should be completely immune against the attack of small herbivores and carnivores. The reason is simple, do you expect to see cracks on the wall if you throw tennis ball at it? If it does somehow, I’m pretty sure the ball will be destroyed on the act (unless it has an extreme property of elasticity and strength). The energy barrier is simply too high for them. They may attempt to do so but should quickly give it up when they are injured with no impacts whatsoever. Also, no climbing out would be possible with the exception of the I-Rex (they mentioned it in JW) or perhaps also the Indo-Raptor.

    - Electrified Cable Fences – JP Style should be included as fans love it! It has the same properties with typical electrified fences with two exceptions. First, since it is a cable, when electrified, the only way to damage it is by burst-charging along with quick biting (another unique animation). With its cable elasticity and assuming the pole holding it is indestructible, I think the damage invoked should be a function of its displacement, which in turn, is a function of the charging speed rather than the momentum. In this case, fast running Dinos with high attack stats do greater damage. Nonetheless, as with other electrified fences, the resilient stats is important to sustain injuries during the charges. Second, when it is out of power, it simply turns to nothing. Any dinosaur can bite and claw it to pieces in matter of seconds. Of course, it is nice to include the biting, tearing, and clawing animations in this specific case. After mentioning running speed, I think it would be wise to include it in the stats (can be hidden) as it is also critically important in hunting-chasing mechanism.

    - Having mentioned different animations with different types of fences, it is important to have a generic fence-testing animation as well. Otherwise, a detailed oriented person may ask – how the heck the Dinos know how to attack? For authentic purposes, a Dino must first do a generic testing animation before attacking the fences.

    - Coordinated group breakouts can be a thrilling experience for players. This can be the case for raptors. It works even more perfectly when there is an actual synchronization of information when they communicate. Basically, I can think of two ways to do this. First way, different Dinos of the same species attack on different spots at the same time. Second way, all the Dinos attack the same portion of the fences in succession. If advanced AI is to employ, the Dinos must first gather information through observation. Then, they share information and work as a group when talking to each other. They will adapt to playing style and develop a tactic to trick the players. For instance, through sharing information, as a group, they know the fences layout, the outer surroundings, and which part of the fence is more vulnerable. The plan may just be that the majority of them attack the damaged /lack of maintenance portion (which I mentioned in earlier post) while a few of them started to work on the portion with concentration of guests. When the players take the bait, they move toward the latter portion and perform a group succession attack. The former is just a trick to facilitate the latter. In other instances, the reverse might be true. The point is to adapt to players mentality, playing mind games with us!

    - Dinosaur Visibility as an inverse function with increased fencing defensive properties. Currently, I think Dino visibility has nothing to do with fences – it is only ‘visible’ with attraction buildings. This must be changed as this is not logical. Furthermore, there is no place for JP style Safari ride within this realm – they are meant to look through fences. First, I’m not sure of how dinosaur visibility is calculated. I think it should be total of Dinosaurs in a park divided by visible dinosaur at any instant. In that case, there should be rectangular viewable area in perpendicular to the perimeter fences. The depth of the ‘rectangular boxes’ is in the order of Electrified Cable Fences > Light Steel Fences > Electrified Light Steel Fences > Medium Steel Fences > Electrified Medium Steel Fences > No Visibility of concrete walls. The reason behind electrified fences has lower visibility is that it is intimidating for visitors to get close.

    - Regular Automated Maintenance of fences with animations should be in place and the required cost –time will vary accordingly. Different maintenance animations for electrified fences and normal fences to make the park feels more lifelike. Maintenance should be automated by having the slider of frequency and location of maintenance to allow us to manage resources appropriatey. The cost and time it takes for higher tier fences should be made tougher as they are more compact/sophisticated in nature. The fences should wear down over time by itself even if there is no attack/storm event has taken place. Its integrity is always a variable even with top-notch maintenance schedule.

    2) Alternative penalties for low Dino Comfort level.

    - Breaking out shouldn’t be the only act when a Dino comfort level gets too low. From the above statement about concrete wall, one may ask – if the smaller dinos can be completely and safely contained, what is the point of having comfort level? Is this an animal torturing game? Of course the answer is no. My logic to deal with it is simple – there are other more logical means with negative consequences as below. It feels more fluid and involved when things are taken as a continuum in addition to rigid, separate incidents.

    - Dinos with low average comfort level throughout their lifetime will have shorter than expected lifespan. First, an additional parameter of average comfort level must be added. It can be a hidden one. I speculated that Dino lives longer than expected when it has a happy life. If that is true, the opposite must also be true.

    - Dinos with low average comfort level will tend to stay away from visitor visibility and have low Dino Rating at the same time. Where to hide? Let me first introduce holding paddocks. Just like modern zoo, every enclosure should have some enclosed area/sanctuary for the animals to truly rest or hide. You may ask, why the heck, we as players want to make troubles for ourselves by giving them place to hide? The answer lies when storm/tornado comes. Currently, there is no physical damage to the Dinos when these catastrophic events comes, it should be logically made so. With this in mind, the sanctuary will serve its purpose. The critics may again ask – where is the thrill when all the Dinos are hiding. No breakouts during storms? I would say the answer depends on whether the Dino average comfort level, if they are low, they may attempt to breakout instead of hiding.

    Whoever is reading this, thank you very much for your patience. I know these really aren’t special ideas. I write this down to show how much I want to see improvement with the fences when it comes to management. Of course, the easy part is the writing, the implementation is millions fold more complicated and I would like to thank you in advance if any of these make into the game.

  7. #7
    One of the biggest things I miss from JPOG would be how the Raptors behaved. You see, they didn't break the fences, they climbed them. So when one decides to escape, it's a lot more of a problem, and also doesn't look stupid. It's even more dumb when you have gallis and similar dinos barreling through concrete.
    It basically means there isn't actually any point to getting more expensive fences, especially electric ones. As space is at a premium, you're better off just not bothering and dealing with breakouts when they happen. Now, if there was some sort of a warning of fences under attack, it might be worth getting the stronger ones in the hope of holding out long enough to prevent the escape, but as it is there's no reason to upgrade at all.
    An interesting idea would be to put attack alarms only on electrified fences (it'd be easier to know remotely if an electric fence is being tampered with) to give some reason at all to get them. Because as it is, you can just use normal iron bars for everything and save enough room for an extra exhibit with the space that would be used for the power stations.
    Although now I think about it, maybe I shouldn't be suggesting ideas that will make space even more of a problem...