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Thread: Factions - A gameplay proposal by leading BGS groups

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by DarkPaladin View Post (Source)
    For what it's worth, this is my personal experience with player factions, as a non aligned, PVE, open mode player. I tried to keep it short but it didn't quite work.


    I have called the same system home for something like 2 years. I chose the system because at the time it was under Li Yong Rui control, has 2 Coriolis stations with a very good selection of ships and modules, has a tourist beacon which produces high NPC traffic for ship scans and it has low player traffic (average less than 50 per day). Even though I've never looked into the BGS, I do love doing missions. After a time I had noticed that the factions from my home system had turned up in many of the nearby systems, which I like to think is partly due to all the missions I run although I have no idea if that's true.


    About a week ago I saw a CMDR in the station and greeted him. I told him that this had been my home system for around a year and I don't often see other players. He replied something to the effect of 'any system can be anyones home'. I thought that was kind of an odd thing to say, but whatever. We chatted a bit and he brought up factions. I told him that I hadn't got involved with the BGS, although there is a faction in the system I wouldn't mind getting rid of simply because their name doesn't have the system name as part of it. We exchanged some more comms, he sent me a friend invite and we went our separate ways.

    Later that day I told my friend about it. He isn't based in the same system but had flown over so we could wing up to do some wing missions together. He told me that the same player had told him that his group was planning on taking over the system, and warned that they would attack Federally alligned players.


    So I went from thinking that a player group would have a presence in the system and I'd see more players around, to realizing that a player group was going to take over the system and attack players that don't follow their ethos. There goes the neighborhood. I'm not sure what to do now but I'm don't know if I want to stay based in a system where players might be interdicted and/or attacked even if they aren't wanted. It's a shame because I'm allied all over the area, know where good planets are for materials, res sites, material traders, etc. Who's to say the same thing won't happen again if I move somewhere else and start over?

    Now I've typed all that out, I'm not sure what my point is..... maybe that I hope this doesn't turn into another reason for people to leave open. It'd be a shame if it forces the folks who aren't interested in taking part to have a hard time finding a system they can comfortably call home. Or something....
    I see your point. But regardless of whether PMF's are a thing or not, any group of players could "claim" an NPC faction for themselves and announce the same. So in the context of this thread, I don't think it matters whether it's a PMF or NPC faction. Elite is an online game and despite anyone's claims it's a single player at heart, the fact is that in an online game people will group to play together, support one another and make it easier for themselves to reach goals.

    Elite has the functionality to support an in-game organisation (a faction) via BGS, which has a direct effect on the environment - things like that will ALWAYS draw players to get involved. And the players that form a group will always have an advantage to lone wolves.

    That's online gaming for you.

    Guess all I'm trying to say - the situation you describe would have happened regardless of PMF's being a thing or not.

  2. #62
    Originally Posted by _Flin_ View Post (Source)
    That is wrong.

    Voting is for organisation of small group to offer them tools the large groups already have.

    And the 25 system limit is a random choice because i cant offer 1300 player groups to possibly talk to them. Not even a fraction.
    You ask for opinions and then call them wrong when offered.

    I've lost all interest in this now.

  3. #63
    Originally Posted by Cari View Post (Source)
    You ask for opinions and then call them wrong when offered.

    I've lost all interest in this now.
    You may excuse Flin. He put a lot of work into this and while your opinion is as important to us as any other opinion in this community, the way you expressed your concerns seemed a bit unfair. At no point did we try to propose mechanics that mostly help large factions/groups. In fact, we talked many times about certain ideas from the perspective of a smaller group to make sure these improvements (if they make it into the game) are balanced and can be used by everyone who's interested. The voting mechanics were part of these discussions and we modified it for the good of smaller groups, as Jane stated above.

    Feel free to show us where your concerns come from and what changes we'd have to make in your opinion to further balance it for smaller groups. Because that's why we published our proposal in the first place.

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Asamith View Post (Source)
    The focus is simply to give a meaning to the cooperative gaming. This dynamic is thinked not to take from playing freedom but to give other opportunities. My personal experience in menaging a pmf from years teached me that pointing to a common goal is one of the more efficient way to improve game experience and durability. Today groups that menage pmf have the costant problem ( and fear) to think something new to submit to the base, with very very few opportunity. We simply want to fill this gap, wr. Simply want instruments to create gaming, we don't ask tons of ultra exciting contents, we want tools to create little, fitted and efficient contents, for players we know surely better than any staff member could.
    I completely agree

  5. #65
    You may excuse Flin. He put a lot of work into this
    That is code for this document was a rambling mess until the day before Flin grabbed hold of it an beat it into shape on behalf of us all. Its a role I do or rather did, professionally and I didn't fancy it!

  6. #66
    How exactly do you talk about the perspective of smaller groups when you are limiting it to larger groups? That's a bit like a Doctor describing what it's like to be a garbage man.

  7. #67
    Originally Posted by Alshain View Post (Source)
    How exactly do you talk about the perspective of smaller groups when you are limiting it to larger groups? That's a bit like a Doctor describing what it's like to be a garbage man.
    This is an understanable misunderstanding - all feedback, suggestions, builds, disagreements are wanted and equally valued. The 25 was a suggestion from Flin to make the number of document editing (to add names) manageable. If you are passionate about this and want to add your group to it, then do so!


    If you don't want to yet - what would it take to make you want to?


    We are a tiiny group personnel-wise too

  8. #68
    Thanks for your work for a even better universe.

    The Likedeeler of Michel and the Likedeeler of Colonia [LomaC], present in more than 50 Systems in Colonia and the Bubble, like to support your document.

    As one of the large Factions we also like to offer to work with you and the other groups in the future.

    We are also present, like many other groups, with a Faction in Colonia. So it would be nice to be able to choose different pledges for the regions Colonia and Bubble.

    Colonia needs love.

    And we would love to see Player Faction Decals in the game


    Greetings and fly save

    Serge Alpenmilch

    Likedeeler of Michel and Colonia [LoMaC]

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Alshain View Post (Source)
    How exactly do you talk about the perspective of smaller groups when you are limiting it to larger groups? That's a bit like a Doctor describing what it's like to be a garbage man.
    When it comes to group sizes, we had a couple of smaller groups on the table from the very beginning. If you're talking about the size of a group's faction, we've all been there and many of us have played small factions besides our own. To start such a proposal you have to come together with an efficient size of experienced people - and in this case that's usually the BGS coordinators of the larger factions. But that was just step one, and now it's time to get everyone else on board and discuss and improve the proposal.

  10. #70
    High five all. Hopefully this helps fdev with the long term vision for Elite Dangerous.

    If someone at Frontier could be so kind to print a couple copies out and drop it in Sandros and Davids in tray that would be awesome

  11. #71
    I don't have a problem with the proposal, kudos to the Op and everyone else involved in putting in all the work and thought required.

    I do have some concerns though with the implementation:

    (1) why differentiate between a PF and a squadron, they are basically the same thing, a group of like minded players playing under their own set of rules. The proposal definitely has a feeling of elitism about in in this regards. We don't know what these proposed squadron carriers will be capable of, so to dismiss a squadron as an equivalent to a PF is rather premature.

    (2) There will have to be some very strong blocks put in place to stop egotistical faction leaders overstepping their boundaries. For example, if they control a station, what is to stop them denying any non-faction Commander access unless they provide a 'temporary pledge' in the form of a donation to the faction? And regarding the PvP content, I hope the current C&P rules will still apply across the galaxy, but unfortunately I can see some little Napoleonic faction deciding that anyone who isn't part of their faction is fair game. If they can do this without penalty it will be very bad for the game.

  12. Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. #72
    Very neatly organized and well written document. I've passed the document onwards to our team to have a read and consider.

    This is the sort of feedback, embedded feature requests, and very much-so to an extent, theorizing game play - that we at Frontier love to see.

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by Martind Forlon View Post (Source)
    ... due ways how BGS works is sometimes needed work AGAINST faction you want to support and here imo whole "Pledge" idea fails badly.
    It is indeed a struggle to hurt your faction in the short term to help them in the long term, but I wouldn't unpledge for anything - I've got hundreds of weeks as a Mahon pledge to prove it.

    Originally Posted by _Flin_ View Post (Source)
    The size requirement is mainly for my own quality of life.
    Please note folks - "25 systems" is just to manage how many signatories are on the doc, it's not intended to exclude anyone.
    At one point I was investigating Player Groups and my spreadsheet got out to 700 groups before I gave up. There are many more now. Many More.

    Originally Posted by Brett C View Post (Source)
    Very neatly organized and well written document. I've passed the document onwards to our team to have a read and consider.

    This is the sort of feedback, embedded feature requests, and very much-so to an extent, theorizing game play - that we at Frontier love to see.
    Huzzah!

  14. #74
    I would like to be able go to war with other player factions (and their allies) and be able to kill their ships without getting a bounty and then having to deal with the C&P nonsense. Will that be possible?

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by Brett C View Post (Source)
    Very neatly organized and well written document. I've passed the document onwards to our team to have a read and consider.

    This is the sort of feedback, embedded feature requests, and very much-so to an extent, theorizing game play - that we at Frontier love to see.
    Team work makes the dream work. Thanks for passing this on Brett.

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