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Thread: Important Community Update

  1. #2506
    Originally Posted by Kerrash View Post (Source)
    Much easier to be angry than humble online tho aint it
    Harder still to try to bring those two sides of the argument together rather than increasing the hostility. ime many rant posts do have a point that gets lost in the kerfuffle over how the post was presented. We don't all have the best communication skills & those that do may use that skill to misdirect or mislead.

    I'll take honest over nice every time. Of course both is ideal

  2. #2507
    Originally Posted by Siobhan View Post (Source)
    Obviously the Cmdr was unaware of FD's earlier games. Perhaps also that ED is Elite 4... I dunno.
    Originally Posted by Ian Phillips View Post (Source)
    Wrong. FD were in business when they started the ED kickstarter, and had been since 1994 (you can look up the exact date of incorporation yourself).

    Kickstarter pledges are not investments. Read the kickstarter terms.
    Oh yeah... now that I think back Frontier were still in business... selling hacked copies of FFE and FE2 with the Gametek logo removed, to people like me for 5 a pop. So what. Before Kickstarter they had nothing. They were nowhere.

    And I don't have to read the Kickstarter small print to know when I've been ripped off. You can quote the terms if you like, but after my experience with FD I won't ever put any of my money into any Kickstarter again regardless.

  3. #2508
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    There plainly are no such Community Managers. They only exist in your mind. The phrase 'Community Managers' is a contradiction in terms in any case; if a community is 'managed' then it's not a community, it's a herd. And personal experience is the final proof of everything, whilst affording an abstract intellectual platitude like: 'I firmly believe people are good at heart' a higher status than other people's personal experiences, without any due consideration of their emotions, is the worst sort of intellectualism. You're delusional.
    Oh dear, I'm delusional. Yes, in fact I have known that for years. I am okay with it though.

    The phrase, "Community Manager", is their job title at Frontier Developments; I am referring specifically to those individuals who work at Frontier Developments.
    Whether that title is the best description of that job is not something I wish to discuss.

    I agree, personal experience is the proof of Everything. I have experienced in my life that the more positive I am about any situation, the happier I feel regardless of the outcome. The people that I interact with have in general been very kind and I have been extremely fortunate to have hardly any negative interactions. I have directly experienced the goodness of their hearts. I am no intellectual and try very hard to not abstract things because abstractions usually involve words and words are only symbolic. They are not the Real Thing. Random people stopping their cars on the road to help me fix my car is the Real Thing. People spontaneously making silly adorable limericks about me and people giving me chocolate cake just because I'm me are the Real Thing. And I am deeply grateful for such people's existence. I am trying to describe my internal state, not compare my internal state with other's. If I offended you, I do apologize.

    Yes, everything just exists in my mind. And although there is a lot of garbage in it, it is my mind after all. Someday, hopefully, it will eventually be cleared out.


  4. #2509
    Originally Posted by Slange Lands View Post (Source)
    Oh dear, I'm delusional. Yes, in fact I have known that for years. I am okay with it though.

    The phrase, "Community Manager", is their job title at Frontier Developments; I am referring specifically to those individuals who work at Frontier Developments.
    Whether that title is the best description of that job is not something I wish to discuss.

    I agree, personal experience is the proof of Everything. I have experienced in my life that the more positive I am about any situation, the happier I feel regardless of the outcome. The people that I interact with have in general been very kind and I have been extremely fortunate to have hardly any negative interactions. I have directly experienced the goodness of their hearts. I am no intellectual and try very hard to not abstract things because abstractions usually involve words and words are only symbolic. They are not the Real Thing. Random people stopping their cars on the road to help me fix my car is the Real Thing. People spontaneously making silly adorable limericks about me and people giving me chocolate cake just because I'm me are the Real Thing. And I am deeply grateful for such people's existence. I am trying to describe my internal state, not compare my internal state with other's. If I offended you, I do apologize.

    Yes, everything just exists in my mind. And although there is a lot of garbage in it, it is my mind after all. Someday, hopefully, it will eventually be cleared out.

    I'm sorry I called you delusional; I thought you were here to discuss Elite: Dangerous. You're in the wrong forum my love. This is the Frontier Developments ED forum. Everyone here is here to discuss FD and ED. Some people here paid a lot of money to have direct input via this forum into the development of a computer game, and instead they got made fun of, patronized, slapped in the face and told to go away and read the small print. So you see, not everybody here is kind, and nobody here is here to learn about your internal state. You haven't offended me, but you are wasting my time, and you do need to find another more relevant forum where people are kinder and more interested. Take care now—

  5. #2510
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Oh yeah... now that I think back Frontier were still in business... selling hacked copies of FFE and FE2 with the Gametek logo removed, to people like me for 5 a pop. So what. Before Kickstarter they had nothing. They were nowhere.

    And I don't have to read the Kickstarter small print to know when I've been ripped off. You can quote the terms if you like, but after my experience with FD I won't ever put any of my money into any Kickstarter again regardless.
    Maybe have a read of this: https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-1...ments_2012.pdf

  6. #2511
    Originally Posted by Robert Maynard View Post (Source)
    So in 2012 Frontier had titles like LostWinds, Coaster Crazy, and Now With Bears, and they had a .pdf saying that they collected 14m in revenue. But even with 14m, they still had to take 2m of Kickstarter money on the back of a promise to involve backers in development of Elite: Dangerous via this forum. And the op on this thread demonstrates that backers interested in exploration - the single biggest selling point of this game - have had no influence on development whatsoever even if they wrote an ED novel. And this thread repeatedly demonstrates that every single time backers point it out they're slapped in the face and told to clear off and read the small print.

    So what's your point exactly? Is it that Kickstarter backers like me are wrong to expect the promised exploration update they paid to be involved in, because FD already had 14m before Kickstarter and never needed the Kickstarter backers' money they collected? Or is it simply that FD have ripped off Kickstarter backers?

    It doesn't really matter either way. FD are abandoning ED, and have ripped off and alienated their core fans who will never trust them again. Once support and updates for ED die, FD can go back to Now With Bears and printing .pdfs of their accounts for the taxman, and underground developers will get to work re-engineering ED, just like they were in the process of re-engineering original Elite and FFE when the Kickstarter began.

    >drops quirium cascade mine<

  7. #2512
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    So what's your point exactly?
    Merely pointing out inaccuracies in the quoted post.

  8. #2513
    Kickstarters are just that though. They help things get running and off the ground.

    It doesnt mean everything stays the same. Im not talking about just how games are built. Movies and products all get changed.

    I've never been afraid of change myself. But this is the first time I have ever seen people flip out about changes like this before.

    Not that big of a deal really.

    Lets see what they offer and how they deliver it before we all go crazy.

    We at least owe them that.

  9. #2514
    Originally Posted by Robert Maynard View Post (Source)
    Merely pointing out inaccuracies in the quoted post.
    Exactly.

    Originally Posted by That90skid View Post (Source)
    Kickstarters are just that though. They help things get running and off the ground.

    It doesnt mean everything stays the same. Im not talking about just how games are built. Movies and products all get changed.

    I've never been afraid of change myself. But this is the first time I have ever seen people flip out about changes like this before.

    Not that big of a deal really.

    Lets see what they offer and how they deliver it before we all go crazy.

    We at least owe them that.
    But according to the .pdf supplied by our scrupulously accurate friend Robert Maynard above, Frontier Developments didn't need a Kickstarter to get Elite: Dangerous running and off the ground in the first place. They made 14m in 2012 and could already afford to produce ED in their own right. Then the Kickstarter raised another 2m for FD that they didn't actually need. Now you might think that 2m is not that big of a deal really, but trust me, I'm a man of the world and 2m is a big deal. And then the Kickstarter was on the basis that backers would have input into game development via this forum. Input which they evidently do not have after nearly four years, and so plainly never will have whilst FD are running the show. That's not product change, that's online fraud.

    Now the Kickstarter small print may or may not cover FD for that, but it doesn't matter. FD's contempt for their marks and their wretched lack of imagination in the development of ED - especially this year - is tantamount to fraud in any case, and backers owe them nothing. And I'm not flipping out over it; flipping out won't help. I'm merely pointing it out. And I don't see anyone going crazy either, unless you count people who still think that after delivering exactly nothing for explorers in Q1-3 of their big Beyond season of exploration updates, and after slapping them in the face with this 'Important Community Update', FD are going to follow it up in Q4 with anything but a punch in the solar plexus.

    'Important Community Update' indeed. They can't even apologize.

  10. #2515
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    Exactly.



    But according to the .pdf supplied by our scrupulously accurate friend Robert Maynard above, Frontier Developments didn't need a Kickstarter to get Elite: Dangerous running and off the ground in the first place. They made 14m in 2012 and could already afford to produce ED in their own right. Then the Kickstarter raised another 2m for FD that they didn't actually need. Now you might think that 2m is not that big of a deal really, but trust me, I'm a man of the world and 2m is a big deal. And then the Kickstarter was on the basis that backers would have input into game development via this forum. Input which they evidently do not have after nearly four years, and so plainly never will have whilst FD are running the show. That's not product change, that's online fraud.

    Now the Kickstarter small print may or may not cover FD for that, but it doesn't matter. FD's contempt for their marks and their wretched lack of imagination in the development of ED - especially this year - is tantamount to fraud in any case, and backers owe them nothing. And I'm not flipping out over it; flipping out won't help. I'm merely pointing it out. And I don't see anyone going crazy either, unless you count people who still think that after delivering exactly nothing for explorers in Q1-3 of their big Beyond season of exploration updates, and after slapping them in the face with this 'Important Community Update', FD are going to follow it up in Q4 with anything but a punch in the solar plexus.

    'Important Community Update' indeed. They can't even apologize.
    Okay im gonna have to say you're wrong.

    We've got all sorts of things out of feedback from these forums.

    We have Material Traders, Engineers Rework, Credit Adjustments, Crime and Punishments for the players. I said this in another place. Ive seen everything but the Modes fixed.

    As much as I complain about stuff. I never say they havnt listened. I believe they have. And what they have delivered shows it if you look back.

    They are also working on things we dont quite know about yet. And went into full development with some stuff.

    All I am saying is give them some time to deliver, they have a ton of people working on new stuff right now. Thats a really good thing.

    I have a pretty good feeling we're all going to get what we want out of this stuff. But Q4 is around the corner. 2 Weeks left in Q3. And then news about Beyond Beyond after the new year.

    Just a few more months of a slow year they warned us about being slow anyways.

    Have faith dude. Dont worry.

  11. #2516
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    And I don't have to read the Kickstarter small print to know when I've been ripped off.
    Oh yes, yes you have to.*

    * Terms and conditions may apply.

  12. #2517
    I had an email server problem and lost 4 days .... and what do I find when it came back ? you lot still chewing up bandwidth like Tasman Devils - sigh.

  13. #2518
    So disappointing. As an outsider who doesn't browse the forums (needed 4 tries to remember my login) and who stopped playing ED over a year ago because of the lack of content, I think this will be the final nail in the coffin.

    I've been keeping an eye on the game from afar, hoping which each update that it will bring some content.... SOMETHING... but nope. I hop on every couple of months for a day or two, hoping the game finally moved forward, but every time I'm disappointed... no new content. There hasn't been anything significant added to this game since Horizons. What was that, 4 years ago now? What are we, year 6 of the "10 year plan"? No atmospheric planets, no space legs, no "clan" feature...

    This is such a shame. This could've been the best game ever... it will just become an other unfinished product which has failed. In between this game and SC, it feels like space sim fans are getting screwed over big time by shady corporations who aren't as much interested in building what space sim fans what as much as lining their pockets with cash using promises that they don't deliver on.

    To top it all off, a dwindling playerbase (can't blame them, this game has gone nowhere for a few years now) is nothing to draw me back in.

    Whenever I log back on, everything I can do is basically the exact same as I could when the game came out (except for planetary missions which are never worth the $ for the extra time it takes to land). Oh and, unpopular opinion, the whole Thargoid content was so lame. I didn't interact with it once.

    RIP ED. Doubt you'll see me online again... not that FDev cares, since they got my money already and that's all they seemingly care about. Guess it's back to hoping one day we get a proper, complete space sim.

  14. #2519
    Originally Posted by Commander Diffin View Post (Source)
    And I don't have to read the Kickstarter small print to know when I've been ripped off. You can quote the terms if you like, but after my experience with FD I won't ever put any of my money into any Kickstarter again regardless.
    For me also. Kickstarters are off the table for me after FD's planning.

    It's all about lifecycle. In the early days KS projects worked well. There had to be an element of altruism involved, within the acceptable (well communicated) parameters of business, but well intended and consumer focused through infinity models. Especially when considering KS Backers.

    FD have not displayed that element. Moreover, I would offer the opinion that the last four years have unequivocally proven, that the ED Kickstarter was about kickstarting Frontier Developments, not Elite.

    But then you only have to look at the reputations of the leadership and their history of decision making under similar circumstances, especially in the early 90's. I feel like a bit of a mug, thinking that the Kickstarter model would reign in that approach.

    Now we can expect many more KS projects being utilised in the same fashion. FD and "the other game" have shown the way.

    Good job.

  15. #2520
    Originally Posted by emmpeabee View Post (Source)
    I had an email server problem and lost 4 days .... and what do I find when it came back ? you lot still chewing up bandwidth like Tasman Devils - sigh.
    lol ... fair though

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