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Thread: Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

  1. #2206
    Regarding the "First Mapped By" - for this to be available for every system in the bubble is just jarring. So when the new exploration update goes live, all worlds will have a blank "First Mapped By". So, Earth, Mars - which have been already mapped IRL - will have a blank until someone first Maps them in-game? Same for all inhabited worlds/systems in game. These should have some sort of generic or factional name for First Mapped By. Otherwise it has a ridiculous feel.

  2. #2207
    Originally Posted by Old Duck View Post (Source)


    ******************************
    * SIMPLE BUT SERIOUS REQUEST *
    ******************************



    Dear Frontier, assuming your database contains this information, please consider adding a date tag to the "Discovered by" tag for planets. Most of the names I see when finding planets discovered by someone else are meaningless to me (though I am thrilled when I see a familiar name). However, dates are meaningful for everyone, especially when out exploring in deep space. The difference between finding a planet discovered 4 years ago and a planet discovered just yesterday is HUGE, with the potential to actually alter gameplay.

    This idea "Discovered by OneOldDuck on 14/9/3304"
    100% ++ on this suggestion. I mean we live in Space-time don't we? So space is meaningless without time and time without space. As Neil deGrasse Tyson once said (and I'm paraphrasing), you've never told someone where you'll meet them for coffee without giving them a time, or when you'll meet them for coffee without giving them a place.

    Should definitely add the date/time to discoveries.

  3. #2208
    Never mind. Was getting a bit more off topic here.

  4. #2209
    Originally Posted by Jack Schitt View Post (Source)
    of course every time this subject comes up it raises the problem of how the whole UC database works. I open the system map of ASSENDA-NOWARE SECTOR 123-G having scanned it, and all the bodies show as untagged. Ten minutes later, CMDR Wanda Lust sells her data for that system to UC. The next time I open the map, her name is on all the bodies. How does that work? UC are allowed to update our cartographic database over the sub-etha in real time, but we're not allowed to transmit scan data back? (You probably could come up with a lore / legal reason why that would be the case, but it would be flimsy at best. At the end of the day it's a mechanism that serves the needs of players, not characters. Still grates a little when I think about it, which I try not to.
    Oh yeah, this bothers me too, but for different reasons. My computer knows nothing about the system I'm about to jump into until I jump into that system and perform a honk, and then all of the sudden my computer knows that these planets have been discovered by someone else... I once argued that our computers should have data on EVERY discovered system, since we're all basically streetview drivers for Google Earth, but people said that would take the fun out of the game (I disagree, but whatever).

    I suppose that going forward one can mindsplain it by saying our probes have ID tags, and once embedded into the planet surface they respond to another ship's ADS, kinda like an RFID reader. I know, I'm ignoring a ton of reasons why this actually doesn't work, but sometimes you just have to put your fingers in your ears and go "la la la" to stave of the madness!

  5. #2210
    I tend to rotate between all 4 categories but overall I like the new mechanics. It certainly gives me more incentive to go and see what's out there.

  6. #2211
    OK, now that I am done talking about the FSS, until I see it in action, I want to talk about USS's & PoI's.

    It is fantasric that players can now actively scan for the presence of USS's. The passive nature of their appearance was a huge part of what made Supercruise so dull.

    However, I do hope they take player agency another couple of steps further. At the moment, determining what a USS is is also a passive thing, & requires the player to be within a certain range. Instead, I would rather that players be able to perform a follow up active scan of a selected USS, at quite a long range, in order to ascertain what type of USS it is. An active scan, at close range (around 1-10ls, depending on USS type) should even be able to reveal a further layer of info.....like "no. of ships", "grades of materials", "life signs detected" (if there are escape pods).....that kind of thing.

    This actually left me thinking that, with the changes to the discovery scanner, they really should give us two separate buttons for the FSS. The current one we have for "The Honk", & a second one for lower level, follow-up scans-like the ones I mentioned above. This second scan button could also be used as an alternative to using Emission Resolution, if the player is within scanning range of where a planet is supposed to be.

    All I want to say about PoI's is that I reiterate my hope that they will avoid an "X marks the spot" approach to uncovering them on planetary surfaces. The current approaches (eyeballing whole planets & those stupid, randomly shifting "search zones", in the case of mission specific PoI's) are definitely pants, but "x marks the spot" is equally so.

    That is also the mistake they made with missions in the 2.0 to 2.1 shift-going from a mechanic that was horribly random & difficult to one that was horribly straight-forward & easy. I hope this is a mistake they don't repeat here. We have SRV's with Wave Scanners, yet an "X marks the spot" approach to PoI's would make such a scanner totally redundant. Instead, have the probing simply narrow down the location of PoI's to within a relatively small section of the planet's surface-between 5-100 square kilometers (or 5-100km diameter) depending on the size & persistence of the PoI. Then players can utilize the new visual cues provided by planetary colours (as mentioned back in 3.0) & their SRV's/SLF's to zero in on the precise location. Once a persistent PoI is discovered, then it should become permanently plotable via the Navigation tab....& earn the player an additional "first discovered by" tag.....if applicable.

    That also reminds me, I really wish the Devs would outfit SLF's with Wave Scanners & limited cargo scoop functionality. That could make them almost as useful as SRV's for planetary surface explorers.

  7. #2212
    Very nice changes on the face of it. Just "PLEASE with sugar on" make the materials we need to replenish the micro probes be part of what we can mine on planet surfaces and NOT what can be collected in the bubble like the Heat Sinks etc. That will go a long way to helping everyone in the black.

  8. #2213
    Originally Posted by Factabulous View Post (Source)
    Gonna dump this here in the hope FD read stuff:

    I can think of 4 categories of ADS/DSS user - others may think of more

    1) Traveller - passing through - will be ok with just seeing the star, new ADS is fine, though they'll grumble a bit about not seeing the system - too bad - they will adapt - they're just passing through.

    2) Explorer - out to see what is there. May decide to search and DSS a lot of locations, just because they want to. Again, ADS/DSS in new system will be fine and more fun. Main target for new scanners - they will love them.

    3) Worker - probably in the bubble, doing a mission or looking for mats. Is in a specific system to 'do' something. Now will probably use Nav Beacon to find X, or has to use ADS. They will be annoyed as Nav Beacon is slower than old ADS and new functionality is not for them (i.e. no benefits to them in their job). They will like the ADS when they are looking for USS.

    4) Searcher - has a goal of finding something specific - maybe aliens / volcanics / good views / deep craters. They're looking for something that may not be in this system. Previously many of these people would be able to look at the Nav Panel and System Map after a honk and that would be enough information to let them know if the system is interesting. Now they probably need to scan a reasonable number of the planets with the ADS to do the same thing. Note that if the system is a candidate for what they are searching for then they will be happy with the new ADS/DSS as they will know they can find everything - the issue is how long it takes to reject systems. Possibly the ADS scan will tell them enough and be quick enough that they are ok with this, possibly not. This workflow may not be viable any more.

    I think the main people worried about the changes are in (3) or (4) - hopefully FD have considered all types.
    The searcher type, though, is one already used to painstaking searching the surface of iwhole ndividual planets in order to find what they are looking for.....so their levels of patience are already a given! Compared to what they previously had to go through, the new system will seem quick & easy....but also more rewarding as it involves skill & player agency (this latter element is sadly something still missing from Engineering, but I digress).

    For the (3) type, you already mentioned Nav Beacons, but forgot to mention purchase of system data.....though I reckon system data should be more expensive to buy.....just IMO.

    If my suggestions were implemented (science module, "target reticules" & follow up scans) then you could actually placate (1) & (3), without the need to keep the insta-honk mechanic.

  9. #2214
    Originally Posted by shadowwar View Post (Source)
    Very nice changes on the face of it. Just "PLEASE with sugar on" make the materials we need to replenish the micro probes be part of what we can mine on planet surfaces and NOT what can be collected in the bubble like the Heat Sinks etc. That will go a long way to helping everyone in the black.
    A bigger help, as I noted 6 billion posts earlier , is to allow players to replicate probe functionality using their own ships-with the ship approach being more difficult & dangerous to pull off. That said, I bet there will be a fair number of explorers out there who will routinely choose the ship approach, over the probes, if the former requires great skill to pull off successfully.

  10. #2215
    Originally Posted by Marc_Hicks View Post (Source)
    A bigger help, as I noted 6 billion posts earlier , is to allow players to replicate probe functionality using their own ships-with the ship approach being more difficult & dangerous to pull off. That said, I bet there will be a fair number of explorers out there who will routinely choose the ship approach, over the probes, if the former requires great skill to pull off successfully.
    I fully agree with you Marc and it's something I regularly do if I find something I think is interesting. Changing the way this is done will as I see it be a short lived novelty. I don't like scanning everything in a system just because it's there. I only scan what I think are planets that interest me. Maybe this update changes my mind. I am currently about 14,000 LY away and making my way to the far reaches of the outer most arm of the Galaxy. Just to see what's there in that sector of space. I got bored of the terrible missions available on Jameson Memorial so a week ago headed back into he black. I will stay out in the black until after the next chapter hits. I will probably be at my target destination by then.

  11. #2216
    Originally Posted by shadowwar View Post (Source)
    I fully agree with you Marc and it's something I regularly do if I find something I think is interesting. Changing the way this is done will as I see it be a short lived novelty. I don't like scanning everything in a system just because it's there. I only scan what I think are planets that interest me. Maybe this update changes my mind. I am currently about 14,000 LY away and making my way to the far reaches of the outer most arm of the Galaxy. Just to see what's there in that sector of space. I got bored of the terrible missions available on Jameson Memorial so a week ago headed back into he black. I will stay out in the black until after the next chapter hits. I will probably be at my target destination by then.
    For me, it's not the novelty of the mechanic, its the player agency & skill that it brings to the table. Sadly, outside of combat, player agency & skill plays almost no part in how the game pans out. The underlying mechanics of the FSS & Probes-as I currently understand them-could actually be adapted to other aspects of the game, such as hacking of Private Data-links, non-violent shut down of force-fields & power generators, decryption of data from a variety of sources, & the translation of alien probes and the like. The more skill that players need to use to succeed at a variety of tasks, then the longer this game will hold my interest.

  12. #2217
    Originally Posted by Jermanicus View Post (Source)
    Regarding the "First Mapped By" - for this to be available for every system in the bubble is just jarring. So when the new exploration update goes live, all worlds will have a blank "First Mapped By". So, Earth, Mars - which have been already mapped IRL - will have a blank until someone first Maps them in-game? Same for all inhabited worlds/systems in game. These should have some sort of generic or factional name for First Mapped By. Otherwise it has a ridiculous feel.
    Umm, no. Pretty sure all the inhabited worlds within the bubble never had a "First Discovered By" tag when the game first launched.......so I doubt that will happen now either. I suspect even those areas of Colonia that are now inhabited will have no First Discovered By or First Mapped By tags.

  13. #2218
    Out of curiosity....
    How will close bodies be treated. example - arrive into system and there's a planet 5ls away - I'm staring right at it.
    • Can I target it still?
    • Does it automatically get added to system map - or do I need do the wave scan thing?
    • Can I land on it without the new scan?
    • Can I send out the probes to surface map it without first doing the scan?
    • Can we get 'first mapped' without 'first discovered' if we're the first there (obviously if someone else already first discovered, the first mapped can be different - but is the scan a stage gate to the mapping)?
    • Is the Nav panel empty until you do the wave scan thing?
      • What if I landed - is the body I just landed on, but not scanned, still absent from the Nav panel?

    • If I didn't scan the body before heading in to land, will I get co-ordinates?
      • Will we know the gravity? (crucial for landing and is in the HUD. If the honk didn't reveal this stuff, how do we have the info)


    General

    • If winged and I scan body 1 and my wing mate scans body 2, do we both have both bodies added to the system map?
    • If multicrew, can we both scan different things at the same time?
    • If multicrew, is the data persistent? ie, I join someone 5,000 ly away and scan a system. Few days later I arrive in system - do I need to scan again or will I have a copy of the data?
      • If I have a copy.....how are you planning to reconcile the inabilty to store our data beyond death? (am looking for consistency rather than risk-free fwiw)

    • Is multicrew also intended to be shared tags (like wings....when it works properly)
    • If multicrew, who's view takes precedence? eg, I scanned a system. Few days later, I join someone who is visiting that same system, but he's never been there before.
      • Does he see nothing and I see the system as I scanned it?
        • Does that mean I can't help?

      • Do we both see nothing and have to scan again?
        • Can I scan again?
          • Will I get no reward for helping because I already scanned?

      • Does he get a free ride because I already scanned?
        • Does he then keep that data?

  14. #2219
    Originally Posted by disorganise View Post (Source)
    Out of curiosity....
    How will close bodies be treated. example - arrive into system and there's a planet 5ls away - I'm staring right at it.
    See, this is a question I am also curious about it. To me, anything that would currently be revealed by "passive scans" (i.e. the automatic process that occurs when you first jump into a system) should be completely revealed by the initial "Honk" of the FSS. This would probably include any belt that resides close to the primary star. Also, depending on size, any planets that happen to be within about 5-20 light-seconds of your entry point.

  15. #2220
    Originally Posted by Marc_Hicks View Post (Source)
    See, this is a question I am also curious about it. To me, anything that would currently be revealed by "passive scans" (i.e. the automatic process that occurs when you first jump into a system) should be completely revealed by the initial "Honk" of the FSS. This would probably include any belt that resides close to the primary star. Also, depending on size, any planets that happen to be within about 5-20 light-seconds of your entry point.
    I'm in agreement here.

    I also wonder if it was possible to scan a planet without probes if you were close enough (how close is a matter of debate) which would be useful especially in multicrew (captain heads to planet, crew scans other planets en route)