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Thread: Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

  1. #1981
    Will the new scanner view function like a turret and allow you to fire probes in any direction or will you be limited to the direction you're flying in? Will scans of USS give a view into the source for more of an idea of what you might find there?

  2. #1982
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    tl;dr I'd much rather spend my time on actual gameplay mechanics to find interesting things added to planets than what we have no, even if it the new system would be MUCH slower. Lets see how the beta works.
    I think Red would agree You're just disagreeing what is actual gameplay. As it stands I 'honk' systems even on ships without a Discovery Scanner because ... muscle memory. I.e. there is no grind to the ADS as I don't even think about it - it's passive. This new system is very non-passive. It may be fine, it will take longer. I can see myself travelling across a galaxy now seemingly populated only by the main stars. I'll get used to this. But I agree - the beta will make things clearer for us all.

  3. #1983
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    I dont think that is a fair comparison, at all. First of all you are comparing gameplay with something that is fast but boring as heck. Claiming the thing with gameplay takes longer than the thing without gameplay seems pretty much a given. You then compare using the new scanner on all planets in a system while claiming you'd only fully scan about 20% of planets currently. With 20% seeming a rather high percentage, to be honest. I currently rarely bother to scan those endless ice moons. With the new system, I would simply ignore those frequency bands and search for stuff I am interested in. You seem to operate on the notion that 'gameplay wears off anyway, so its just about what is the fastest dull system.'. While I guess the current system will be the fastest, I myself would rather focus on improving gameplay than improving the speed of which something boring is being done, just so you can do more of the boring stuff per hour.

    tl;dr I'd much rather spend my time on actual gameplay mechanics to find interesting things added to planets than what we have no, even if it the new system would be MUCH slower. Let's see how the beta works.
    Agreed. With them saying this all ties into other features, it's clear that it's going to have a wider impact, and for the better. This seems like a system that's going to allow a lot more things to be discovered, which means they're adding more (which Adam said yes to in stream).

    And they can add more things to discover now, this allows them to do that. And it makes it more engaging instead of honking and then flying about hoping to pick something up.

  4. #1984
    Originally Posted by Factabulous View Post (Source)
    I think Red would agree You're just disagreeing what is actual gameplay. As it stands I 'honk' systems even on ships without a Discovery Scanner because ... muscle memory. I.e. there is no grind to the ADS as I don't even think about it - it's passive. This new system is very non-passive. It may be fine, it will take longer. I can see myself travelling across a galaxy now seemingly populated only by the main stars. I'll get used to this. But I agree - the beta will make things clearer for us all.
    Yeah, I think jump honking for most "space travelers" is going to be much, much more prevalent than it already is. Not much incentive (and for goodness sake I don't mean credits/ranks here, Frontier) to stop and smell the roses unless you feel like messing around with the same old mini-game over and over again.

  5. #1985
    Originally Posted by Max Factor View Post (Source)
    Seems to me that the terms busywork and grind are just bandied around for any gameplay that you don't enjoy.

    Busywork: work that keeps a person busy but has little value in itself.

    If you find no value in finding and discovering stuff, then you will find it busywork. You can say that all computer games are just busywork as they don't have any real value apart from enjoyment if you even enjoy it. Seems to me that many people play the game while hating the gameplay.
    I know it pointless responding to you, but here goes.
    First sentence, ok thanks for the insight. You are wrong.
    Second sentence - yes a definition of the meaning I intended. From my perspective obviously.
    Last paragraph: correct I find no value in exploring. But if the new system is good for explorers then fine. I have no stake in this. I do find value in passenger missions, but have no desire to engage in the faf described in the livestream just to discover a destination. Compared to the current honk and find-it, the new system seems a retrograde step for me. Cannot comment on your last sentence: no data and it is your opinion as stated. But thanks for sharing.

  6. #1986
    Originally Posted by Sylveria View Post (Source)
    Indeed. And they've already been spoiled with the ADS infinite range scan "gimme everything NAO!" gameplay, so anything that's contrary to that ideal is going to be considered "grind" now.
    Except, as has been pointed out many times on this thread already, the ADS doesn't give everything immediately, and nobody has been saying that it does or that they want it to.

  7. #1987
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    I think they will change it before final release. BUT has exploring just become a race? And if it is, where is the finish line? Who are we racing against? Why should it not take time?
    Well it's certainly not a race for me, not that we're in any immediate danger of discovering everything in the game and needing a new galaxy.

    Time is relevant for me but not in that way.

    I have a fixed pool of time to spend on gaming and really it should all be spent on doing things that are fun. As I've said a few times, what I enjoy when exploring is the out of the ordinary. I'll happily spend a day in a system if what is there holds my interest.

    As the game is now I only spend time exploring in depth systems which initially reveal that they have something there that will be of interest to me.

    As the game is after this update as proposed, I will be spending non-trivial amounts of my time just finding out whether there is anything that interests me there to begin with. If there isn't there is no payoff (in terms of entertainment not credits) for the time I spent.

    I can't speak for anybody else but I see plenty of people already have that covered... (not you )

  8. #1988
    Originally Posted by sleutelbos View Post (Source)
    I dont think that is a fair comparison, at all. First of all you are comparing gameplay with something that is fast but boring as heck. Claiming the thing with gameplay takes longer than the thing without gameplay seems pretty much a given. You then compare using the new scanner on all planets in a system while claiming you'd only fully scan about 20% of planets currently. With 20% seeming a rather high percentage, to be honest. I currently rarely bother to scan those endless ice moons. With the new system, I would simply ignore those frequency bands and search for stuff I am interested in. You seem to operate on the notion that 'gameplay wears off anyway, so its just about what is the fastest dull system.'. While I guess the current system will be the fastest, I myself would rather focus on improving gameplay than improving the speed of which something boring is being done, just so you can do more of the boring stuff per hour.

    tl;dr I'd much rather spend my time on actual gameplay mechanics to find interesting things added to planets than what we have no, even if it the new system would be MUCH slower. Lets see how the beta works.
    While we may often disagree, (sometimes to "Beyond" the point of frustration...) I completely agree here. We need something that involves true active gameplay versus boring repetitive passive gameplay, and this is just a small step in all of it.

    Do I want MORE to discover??? Of course I do! Hell, I'd love to see more engagement and depth on the surface of planets as well as the active scanning improvements! More SRV stuff! More to FIND "out there". But this ridiculous notion that a "time investment" is going to kill exploration is preposterous. It's already a time investment for those who already explore. For those who simply "travel" of course it's going to seem like they have to do "more".

  9. #1989
    I absolutely love this! This is exactly what I always wanted to have as exploration. Yes, it is basically a mini game but I don't care as long as it is bound into the game in an, sorry for using this word, immersive way. And also doing all of this in muktiplayer is fantastic. Can't wait to get my virtual hands on this!

  10. #1990
    Glad to see the change but i am worried we will just end up with another pointless grind between scans and probes, I know it wouldn't have been easy trying to refine it down but i simply hope they have various blueprints or ideas set aside incase we are not happy, I say bring on the beta testing that will give us a clearer idea If we say Yay! or Nay!!!. Just want fdev to really listen to what we are all saying and get a suitable balance we can accept.

  11. #1991
    Originally Posted by Dooguk View Post (Source)
    I think they will change it before final release. BUT has exploring just become a race? And if it is, where is the finish line? Who are we racing against? Why should it not take time?
    The irony is, exploration will take less time for me with the proposed changes.

    If I am on my way to Lagoon from the Bubble for instance, now I'll check every system I end up in. Some of them will cause me to stop my journey and dive into a system to investigate something interesting I can see from the system map.

    I can't do this anymore in the new system, so I'll still honk, but I'll be swiftly on my way to the next system. Until I end up in the Lagoon and start what I was planning to do (enjoying the new exploration mechanics)

  12. #1992
    Originally Posted by operant View Post (Source)
    I know it pointless responding to you, but here goes.
    First sentence, ok thanks for the insight. You are wrong.
    I said it seems. I didn't say it was a fact and I didn't say it was you perssonally in case you thought I did. It seems to be that is the case these days as people seem to say these phrases when in fact they don't make sense with whats involved, but as a lot of that is subjective anyway, like busywork and to some degree grind, what I said is completely right.

    Originally Posted by operant View Post (Source)
    Second sentence - yes a definition of the meaning I intended. From my perspective obviously.
    Last paragraph: correct I find no value in exploring. But if the new system is good for explorers then fine. I have no stake in this. I do find value in passenger missions, but have no desire to engage in the faf described in the livestream just to discover a destination. Compared to the current honk and find-it, the new system seems a retrograde step for me. Cannot comment on your last sentence: no data and it is your opinion as stated. But thanks for sharing.
    As to passanger missions I don't think it will effect you much as most systems have a tourist beacon you can follow which I am sure you either need to honk for or it will just show up. So I doubt you will need to do the whole search for planets gameplay. And if it's station to station, they I believe that the stations will be shown anyway on system entry, and there is always the Nav beacon for inhabited systems.

    As to why you think it's pointless replying to me, I am unsure.

  13. #1993
    Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post (Source)
    The irony is, exploration will take less time for me with the proposed changes.

    If I am on my way to Lagoon from the Bubble for instance, now I'll check every system I end up in. Some of them will cause me to stop my journey and dive into a system to investigate something interesting I can see from the system map.

    I can't do this anymore in the new system, so I'll still honk, but I'll be swiftly on my way to the next system. Until I end up in the Lagoon and start what I was planning to do (enjoying the new exploration mechanics)
    Not quite sure I "follow" here. Are you saying because you're traveling more, and "exploring" less, somehow you're exploring more?

    (or, did you have a bit too much wine this morning/evening?)

  14. #1994
    Originally Posted by Qohen Leth View Post (Source)
    I can make you a proper DW2 signature, you know
    I know but I thought you'd be busy and I'd have to ask you to change it when I need it changed. Which I do. Often

    Edit: Although, having said that, I have lost my layered version.

  15. #1995
    Originally Posted by Rax Zenith View Post (Source)
    Glad to see the change but i am worried we will just end up with another pointless grind between scans and probes, I know it wouldn't have been easy trying to refine it down but i simply hope they have various blueprints or ideas set aside incase we are not happy, I say bring on the beta testing that will give us a clearer idea If we say Yay! or Nay!!!. Just want fdev to really listen to what we are all saying and get a suitable balance we can accept.
    Actually nothing changed - only You now need ONE Scanner only to do the Exploring process (and get Your first discovered by - which previously required the DSS AND TO FLY THERE!) and FD added a new profession to the Exploring Community - the Kartographer, who now uses the new DSS and its probes to get the POI Markers...