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Thread: Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

  1. #4366
    Originally Posted by Nagual View Post (Source)
    Both types are there.
    So? How does the classic local map look then on first arrival when nothing has been scanned before? I would expect just the center star and nothing else. But that's a total unbiased and open question as I'm honestly curious.

    I guess there's a reason why FD wasn't quite clear on this in their latest stream: Cause they know exactly they would have to upset one or the other camp, no matter how they decided. Thus they rather keep quiet.

  2. #4367
    Originally Posted by picommander View Post (Source)
    So? How does the classic local map look then on first arrival when nothing has been scanned before? I would expect just the center star and nothing else. But that's a total unbiased and open question as I'm honestly curious.

    I guess there's a reason why FD wasn't quite clear on this in their latest stream: Cause they know exactly they would have to upset one or the other camp, no matter how they decided. Thus they rather keep quiet.
    They clearly said in the livestream that the "HONK" in a new system would reveal only the main star. So I assume that we'll only see the main star in the system map.

  3. #4368
    im more worried because i just found out this change coming and im over 20000 ly from the bubble. what happens to all my expo data if i cant get back and sell it in time? do i lose it because some retentives want an far more dull slow and grindy way to go out of the bubble exploring? or does my unsold data get converted to the new format and i find all i have is scans of the primary star existing, not the details of it even?

    the changes make me want to explore less. going out of the bubble is just so slow, and the only thing keeping me going isnt finding random USS with nothing or thargoids in. its that when i get where i wanted to be in my 44ly max jump asp ex, i will then have a reward for probably a year of real time spent out there jumping and scanning until i cant take the boredom, with billions of credits to get the anaconda with the huge jump range i can replace the asp with.

    if im going to lose data, then sure i have wasted hundreds or thousands of hours out there scanning and might as well dive into a star and spawn back in the bubble magically. right now i dont want to play AT ALL until i know what will happen to those of use who almost certainly have hundreds and thousands of scans, but wont have time to get back anywhere to sell them before this thing drops. even colonia minibubble is thousands of ly away.

  4. #4369
    Originally Posted by CMDR Uzyurdady View Post (Source)
    They clearly said in the livestream that the "HONK" in a new system would reveal only the main star. So I assume that we'll only see the main star in the system map.
    we have eyes for that. and if my ship scanners cant detect the big ball of fire that we were aiming for and dropped out in front of without a honk, then i expect EVERYBODY bubble or not to have a 50/50 chance to smash into the star in instant death that cannot be avoided.

    honking to find something we detect now due to close proximity is STUPID. unless we drop in right as systems edge, so we dont even see any stars as any larger than ones needing a hyperspace jump. thats going to stop explorations almost stone dead - nobody will make those big risky jumps - even fuel rats arent dumb enough to jump to stars where you dont have enough fuel left to reach the primary to refuel. i dont know if thats why yu need a jonk for the big unmissable ball of fire that your RADAR can see, because actually you dont land on the primary now. like to see the graveyard of players of quit the game trying to jump anywhere in alpha centauri tho if that is the system.

    you cant justify jumping in on a star safely AT ALL if you have to discover the primary just because it wasnt explored before. it either works like that in the bubble too or it doesnt.

    also if you need to honk and it only detects something you can see why bother with that scanner, period? or why not disable radar on ALL jumps EVERYWHERE until someone honks. Because its inconsistent and illogical otherwise, and the honk would be needed to identify where you were in a explored system also so the system could then paint the correct labels in system map and on the HUD. or do ships jumping to settled systems automagically know exactly where they landed relative to the primary without using radar or anything? cant have it both ways.

  5. #4370
    Originally Posted by yodajedifishmaster View Post (Source)
    im more worried because i just found out this change coming and im over 20000 ly from the bubble. what happens to all my expo data if i cant get back and sell it in time? do i lose it because some retentives want an far more dull slow and grindy way to go out of the bubble exploring? or does my unsold data get converted to the new format and i find all i have is scans of the primary star existing, not the details of it even?
    In the livestream they stated that current discoveries stand, there will just be a new goldrush for first mapped to go with first discovered. (They also pointed out last night that nothing is being removed, only being added to)

    First discovered will still exist, so the discovery database still exists, there's no reason you'd lose your data.

  6. #4371
    Originally Posted by Winterwalker View Post (Source)
    In the livestream they stated that current discoveries stand, there will just be a new goldrush for first mapped to go with first discovered. (They also pointed out last night that nothing is being removed, only being added to)

    First discovered will still exist, so that means the discovery database still exists, there's no reason you'd lose your data.
    just to clarify: i have scans now. they have not been sold and will not have been by the time the update happens. so i STILL dont lose unsold scans? and ty for your reply

  7. #4372
    Originally Posted by yodajedifishmaster View Post (Source)
    just to clarify: i have scans now. they have not been sold and will not have been by the time the update happens. so i STILL dont lose unsold scans? and ty for your reply
    Yes. I understand what you mean. Worry about it if it happens? But the chances of you losing that uncashed data, to anything other than a bug, are about nil I'd say.

    Originally Posted by yodajedifishmaster View Post (Source)
    you cant justify jumping in on a star safely AT ALL if you have to discover the primary just because it wasnt explored before. it either works like that in the bubble too or it doesnt.
    I think the answer to that is you already know the star type - even if you've never been there before - in the galaxy map in game now. Stars are treated a bit different to cold bodies, probably because they're much more visible from a distance (and the handwavium for the hyperspace jump is that the FSD targets the biggest gravity well, the Star).

  8. #4373
    Originally Posted by Winterwalker View Post (Source)
    Yes. I understand what you mean. Worry about it if it happens? But the chances of you losing that uncashed data, to anything other than a bug, are about nil I'd say.
    Correct, but the probability of such a bug to appear is infinitely high.
    sorry, couldn't resist

  9. #4374
    DISCLAIMER: As always, this is purely my view, and in no way intended to attack anyone who doesn't feel the same.


    I know I'm in the mintority here, but the more I watched that livestream, the more my sense of dread increased. Dread is entirely the wrong word, by the way, as it's only a game and I do try to keep things in perspective. For the purposes of this post, however "dread" will have to do.

    I like that everybody's discoveries will benefit the community: that's as it should be. If something ha previously discovered, this whould be reflected in the game and is all well and good. Except that previously we've been required to purchase this data from UC by clicking on the system icon in the galaxy map, so I'm assuming this mechanic is now defunct, and all discoveries are now instantly available to all (once sold). Raises the question though: if selling the data makes it instantly available to all, wherever they may be, why do you have to make the journey back to the Bubble to manually sell your data.

    Adaptive lighting and colour grade: I really hope this looks better in the game, cos to me it just looks like they've turned the gamma up, and to my eye it is not an improvement. To be fair, they did say that the screenshots were old, so we'll wait and see.

    Night view mode: Hmmm, I believe the term is "Meh". I'd much rather they fixed the headlamps so that their brightness isn't affected by how dark it is.

    And then they showed the FSS.

    I really can't put my finger on it, but I started to feel depressed watching this. Adam was sitting there showing off his knowledge predicting what was in the system, but it just left me cold. I really didn't understand what was going on and nothing I saw was giving me much incentive to learn. It all seemed a bit of a faff. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this is exactly what a lot of you have been crying out for, but it really didn't seem to be something that's for me: worse, it might put me off exploration altogether. This is unfortunate, and I am fervently hoping that trying it for myself in the Beta will change my mind.

    At the risk of alienating myself from the majority of the community, the praise I'm seeing on this thread is bordering on the Pavlovian. I'm having trouble reconciling it with my reaction, which is one of reserved pessimism.

    I hope I'm wrong.

  10. #4375
    I didn't really understand how this new exploration mechanic worked. I was watching, trying to understand what Adam is talking about, how he "predicts" what planets there are by looking at some vertical lines on the horizontal line. Honestly, I don't want to learn wave codes again. Also, I didn't really understand why you had to "tune" the scanner into various phases, why was it not enough to just turn the camera. I don't know how it will be all mapped to a console controller. Also, what if a planet is covered by the main star because it's directly behind it? Will we have to exit exploration mode, circle around the star then back to scanning? Also, if the given system is already scanned, does that mean the "honk" will not generate any money anymore? Since the planets are already there, albeit unexplored. The presentation was fine, I just had as many new questions as answers.

    The mapping system with the probes seems to be fun but only for a while. I'm afraid it will get really boring after the 10-12th planet (see Mass Effect 2 for reference). I don't see the incentive and the content behind it.

  11. #4376
    Originally Posted by dreampage View Post (Source)
    I didn't really understand how this new exploration mechanic worked. I was watching, trying to understand what Adam is talking about, how he "predicts" what planets there are by looking at some vertical lines on the horizontal line. Honestly, I don't want to learn wave codes again. Also, I didn't really understand why you had to "tune" the scanner into various phases, why was it not enough to just turn the camera. I don't know how it will be all mapped to a console controller.
    The tuning mechanic, and the energy spectrum, are used to allow the player to select certain classes of body they are interested in, and also to allow them to locate candidates in a 360 degree sphere relative to the much smaller viewport. Without it, you would have to fish around yourself blindly guessing which blurry blob might have an ELW under it, much like a five year old turns over cards in a game of memory looking for a match.

    The horizontal line provided by honking is some kind of spectrum. Each class of body has a certain position in the spectrum. So icy bodies appear somewhere in the middle, asteroid clusters about a third of the way from the left and gas giants most of the way to the right. The height of the mark on the spectrum shows the total mass of the bodies in that class in the system.

    Then you have the 'tuning' mechanic. You may be old enough to remember an analogue radio tuner . If so, this should be intuitive. Having 'tuned' your scanning reticle into a particular planet class' frequency, some groups of caret marks appear above the tuner bar, and radially around the scanning reticle. These indicate where to steer the scanning reticle to (also shown as an anonymous blurry blob on the skybox). The placement and symmetry of the caret marks around your reticle indicates when you have a good aim.

    Having positioned the scanning reticle correctly, you zoom in and are rewarded with a pixelated view of the distant body, and its statistics (and further information about any surface PoIs). Found bodies increase the completion percentage and are removed from the original honk spectrum.

    As far as gamepad controls go, they are shown towards the bottom of the FSS screen in the video. You'll need an X and Y axis to shift the reticle, another X axis to move the tuner bar, and a zoom button.

    Originally Posted by dreampage View Post (Source)
    Also, what if a planet is covered by the main star because it's directly behind it? Will we have to exit exploration mode, circle around the star then back to scanning?
    I would also like to know this. I hope occlusion does work like this!

    Originally Posted by dreampage View Post (Source)
    Also, if the given system is already scanned, does that mean the "honk" will not generate any money anymore? Since the planets are already there, albeit unexplored.
    Not sure about the honk, but scanning bodies again will still net money if the earlier player has scanned and handed in, just no first discovery bonus.

  12. #4377
    Originally Posted by dreampage View Post (Source)
    I didn't really understand how this new exploration mechanic worked. I was watching, trying to understand what Adam is talking about, how he "predicts" what planets there are by looking at some vertical lines on the horizontal line. Honestly, I don't want to learn wave codes again. Also, I didn't really understand why you had to "tune" the scanner into various phases, why was it not enough to just turn the camera.
    That's what I think he (Will) meant with "the system is learnable", it's just a matter of trying, learning and adjust. Some will need a little longer, but in the end we'll all get used to it and will defend its existence like some of us still do with the old ADS functionality.

  13. #4378
    Originally Posted by wstephenson View Post (Source)
    The tuning mechanic, and the energy spectrum, are used to allow the player to select certain classes of body they are interested in, and also to allow them to locate candidates in a 360 degree sphere relative to the much smaller viewport. Without it, you would have to fish around yourself blindly guessing which blurry blob might have an ELW under it, much like a five year old turns over cards in a game of memory looking for a match.

    The horizontal line provided by honking is some kind of spectrum. Each class of body has a certain position in the spectrum. So icy bodies appear somewhere in the middle, asteroid clusters about a third of the way from the left and gas giants most of the way to the right. The height of the mark on the spectrum shows the total mass of the bodies in that class in the system.

    Then you have the 'tuning' mechanic. You may be old enough to remember an analogue radio tuner . If so, this should be intuitive. Having 'tuned' your scanning reticle into a particular planet class' frequency, some groups of caret marks appear above the tuner bar, and radially around the scanning reticle. These indicate where to steer the scanning reticle to (also shown as an anonymous blurry blob on the skybox). The placement and symmetry of the caret marks around your reticle indicates when you have a good aim.

    Having positioned the scanning reticle correctly, you zoom in and are rewarded with a pixelated view of the distant body, and its statistics (and further information about any surface PoIs). Found bodies increase the completion percentage and are removed from the original honk spectrum.

    As far as gamepad controls go, they are shown towards the bottom of the FSS screen in the video. You'll need an X and Y axis to shift the reticle, another X axis to move the tuner bar, and a zoom button.



    I would also like to know this. I hope occlusion does work like this!



    Not sure about the honk, but scanning bodies again will still net money if the earlier player has scanned and handed in, just no first discovery bonus.
    sooo... basically, everyone trying to learn this in the bubble is dead. because it sounds like, especially for consoles and pc gamers like me who fly using a controller, that a hostile npc even will have killed you before you can back out of this complicated separate mode. also, you had better not do it while in supercruise aimed at the primary, or you'll wind up yanked out with damage. and taking heat damage.

    but then again im not someone who thought exploration should take 50 times more of your time. im someone who will be put off exploring using this complex and time wasting mechanic entirely. and since exploring was tedious but still a little fun, just already took too long... im not sure this system will help explorers. everyone else who benefits, but not explorers. it nbasically makes exploration take so long, that nobody wants to spend the time doing it to earn enough to make it worthwhile - unless rewards go up at least tenfold even for previously explored systems.

    and if a bug does wipe out my current scans, they cant be recovered, i may as well blow up my ship to teleport to the bubble and then see if mining is less fun too. i can see this making the game more combat focussed if so - because a lot of off explorers will be turning to that to vent frustration.

    also if the ADS honk basically does EFF all now, why not dispense with it entirely? I can think of a lot of modules i would rather take than a costly, worthless piece of excrement just there to make a loud noise and do basically EFF all.

  14. #4379
    Oh i just thought of something, ADS is now a lie. its something so 'advanced' it the only way to officially detect a large ball of fiery gas which your eyes can see plain in front of your face. more accurate name is NADS; NON-'Advanced Discovery Scanner'. because it discovers nothing, is less advanced than your eyeball, and its exactly like a kick in the gonads.

    EDIT: now i think thats the last of my bad temper... whats worrying me is the time thing. its all very well saying that they want to make it faster by avoiding flying to planets. but SYNTHESIS of the new microprobes the DSS sends is now a thing. unless you have some new element infinitium which never runs out and never needs collecting, this will force you to land on a planet occasionally, probably several, just to mine with the rover enough to make sure the DSS isnt a costly energy eating waste of space. which means more time landing where now i only need to if i want to. i dont see how having to periodically land and hope to get enough mats with the rover is saving time. that part isnt explained well enough for me.

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