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Thread: Unpopular Opinion about Exploration Payouts

  1. #196
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    I got 50m from my 3 day trip to the Rosette nebula and my name on loads of stuff. I didn't even know 'bubble' exploring was a thing. That was too much money for my incidental effort if you ask me.

    Thing is you don't go exploring for the credits, you go for the exploring, so how much money should you make from that as a coincidental by-product? Certainly not as much as I do risking my butt in combat day to day. Hope you see where I'm coming from.

    Edit: I don't usually quote myself, it just happened that the page changed and this is at the top now, so 'above' didn't make sense in the context.

    Addendum to above, what I WOULD like to see in terms of credit generation from exploring, is the feeling of actually finding something of GREAT value. Like a planet made of almost solid gold. Improbable? Yes. Impossible, in a galaxy of 2 TRILLION bodies? Probably inevitable. That planet made of solid gold should immediately be worth 25m in finders fee. For example. That would bring both excitement and a fair day's pay to explorers.

  2. #197
    Originally Posted by Aashenfox View Post (Source)
    I got 50m from my 3 day trip to the Rosette nebula and my name on loads of stuff. I didn't even know 'bubble' exploring was a thing. That was too much money for my incidental effort if you ask me.
    How much hours did you invest? Since you scanned 'loads of stuff' I take it you weren't in a hurry?

    I think the exploration earnings at the moment are quite alright. They're lower than the more intensive professions, but with regard to effort I think we're at a sweet spot.

    Thing is you don't go exploring for the credits, you go for the exploring, so how much money should you make from that as a coincidental by-product? Certainly not as much as I do risking my butt in combat day to day. Hope you see where I'm coming from.
    Do you do combat for the credits or do you do combat because you like doing combat?

    But exploration certainly doesn't make as much as dong combat. If you spent the same time on combat as you did on exploration, you could have made way more than 50m. And I agree, that's how it should be.

  3. #198
    Years ago a FD employee wrote that discovery payouts were on a sliding scale based on how many CMDRs turned in the data.
    What I don't remember is whether that was already in game, or to be in game SOON.

    This was probably already mentioned, but Elite rank should be based on some principal like first discoveries count, not money made.

  4. #199
    Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post (Source)
    How much hours did you invest? Since you scanned 'loads of stuff' I take it you weren't in a hurry?

    I think the exploration earnings at the moment are quite alright. They're lower than the more intensive professions, but with regard to effort I think we're at a sweet spot.


    Do you do combat for the credits or do you do combat because you like doing combat?

    But exploration certainly doesn't make as much as dong combat. If you spent the same time on combat as you did on exploration, you could have made way more than 50m. And I agree, that's how it should be.
    No I wasn't in a hurry, and yes, I kinda do combat for credits as well as for the combat experience (the act of getting guder is indeed reward in and of itself for me, but you need money in a game so this is what I do to get it, as well as boom deliveries and skimmer kills). I see your point, my cash is also 'somewhat' incidental, but not in the same way as exploring. I can tell by the way you worded your post that you agree in that respect. In fact, I think we agree wholly at this point.

  5. #200
    Originally Posted by Morbad View Post (Source)
    But why do you get paid for discovering the location of already known locations?
    Even though it would take tens of thousands of years for every system to be first discovered, most systems bar some rare outliers within a 2k radius of Sol have already been mapped and in directions of POI it might be a few 1000 ly more before you hit unexplored pockets.

    Now say if no payments of explored systems was the case, some newbee in an unengineered ship with a range of 25-30ly would have to do 80+ jumps before they reached a payable system and even more than that if they head along a popular route (i.e. towards Colonia or the core regions). That would be a bit ridiculous for someone trying to learn the basics to do that many jumps, it would also make short hops to nearby POI like Betelgeuse or one of the nearby nebula rather pointless if you didn't get anything for going.

  6. #201
    I notice "first discovered systems" is completely absent from this list:



    Systems visited? Level 2 and 3 scans? That's neat and all, but how about a breakdown of what those scans entail?
    Give us hard stats for how many of each type of body you've tagged, and how many of those tags were first discoveries. I remember my first real foray out into the black was for the specific purpose of "I want to slap my name on an earth-like world", and a later trip just before 3.0 dropped was "I'm going out, and I'm not coming back until I've tagged a herbig, a black hole, and a neutron star".
    Gimme some exploration goals to reach for.

  7. #202
    I never understood why "first discovered" only gives a small symbolic bonus. Or while from a monetary point of view (income related to time invested) it's still more "efficient" to just honk and move on. The nonsense already starts when detail surface scanning aren't paid according to distance from the entry star. A simple honk should only pay the main star, everything else should be detail scanned but then be payed much higher than currently - and with distance calculated in by a strong factor at least. These things hopefully get a full renewal with the new scanner mechanics.

  8. #203
    I like to point out something people. We are getting a new update 3.4 that deals with Exploration. Why don't we wait and see what they do?

  9. #204
    Originally Posted by Lestat View Post (Source)
    I like to point out something people. We are getting a new update 3.4 that deals with Exploration. Why don't we wait and see what they do?
    We can wait and see while discussioning what we already know. Its not like not talking about it is going to make it come any faster.

  10. #205
    Originally Posted by Nicholas Nack View Post (Source)
    Level 2 and 3 scans? That's neat and all, but how about a breakdown of what those scans entail?
    Level 1: Ping discovery scan
    Level 2: Targeted near body scan without DSS
    Level 3: Targeted near body scan with DSS

  11. #206
    Originally Posted by rlsg View Post (Source)
    Level 1: Ping discovery scan
    Level 2: Targeted near body scan without DSS
    Level 3: Targeted near body scan with DSS
    Not what I meant.
    I mean "how many black holes have I scanned"
    "how many ELWs have I scanned"
    "how many neutron stars have I scanned"
    "of the above, how many of those was I the first to scan?"

  12. #207
    Originally Posted by Nicholas Nack View Post (Source)
    Not what I meant.
    I mean "how many black holes have I scanned"
    "how many ELWs have I scanned"
    "how many neutron stars have I scanned"
    "of the above, how many of those was I the first to scan?"
    ED Discovery tells you that, I think.

  13. #208
    Originally Posted by CMDR Pugwash View Post (Source)
    ED Discovery tells you that, I think.
    With EDSM, as well. Now links to Inara, and Elite Galaxy Online.

    Third party dev's doing Frontier's job...

  14. #209
    Originally Posted by TheSynopticVision View Post (Source)
    If there's one thing everyone seems to agree on, is that with the increased "difficulty" of the process of exploration/discovery, payouts handed out by Universal Cartographics should be significantly increased. That's uncontroversial.

    However, I would like this new exploration update to also consider changing how and when UC pays you credits for discoveries, trying to make the process more "realistic" and fair. In short: there is no reason why an organization like UC should pay the full discovery fare for the "discovery" of planets that were already known. Why would they pay me for data about an ELW some 100ly away, which has been already discovered or that -- worse -- being in the Bubble has been known for hundred of years? It's like a British explorer going to the Royal Society and asking for money for having "discovered" the Isle of Man.
    What if you discovered something on the Isle of Man that no one else had discovered? Perhaps the Rosetta Stone of translating ancient Pictish? Or a rare plant, long though extinct? Or a previously unknown species of butterfly? Or an elaborate, high-tech city, far below the ground? Should you not be paid well for discovering something others had missed? Translate this to Elite - we already get paid for a Discovery (level 1), a bonus for First Discoveries (usually pitiful), paid more for a more detailed scan (level 2 [no DSS]) and even more for highly detailed scans (level 3 [DSS scan]). But that DSS scan does not mean it is an all-inclusive, gods' eye scan of a celestial body - there could well still be secrets to be found. I'm more inclined to say the First Discovery bonus should be a multiplier, rather than a tacked-on pittance. That would satisfy your call for actual Discoveries to pay more.

    Originally Posted by TheSynopticVision View Post (Source)
    UC should pay, and pay more than it does now, for actual discoveries, not just scans of the same planet that dozens of other CMDRs have already scanned. There is no scarcity of undiscovered planets in the Elite universe, and there won't be for a VERY LONG time. So what is the problem? Why not encouraging explorers to actually explore?
    See above, but also keep in mind, with the update coming for Exploration, we may well see quite a bit of change to the payouts.

    Originally Posted by TheSynopticVision View Post (Source)
    And yes, in case you still haven't realized this, this implies the death of Road to Riches. I am not against moneymaking, and I personally think that missions and CGs don't pay nearly enough. But this still doesn't justify the completely unreasonable fact that one should get paid for scanning very well known planets. Again and again. Not because "I don't want people to make money" but because it makes actual exploration completely trivial, at least from the economic point of view (not to mention the "Exploration Elite" badge, for those who care about that).

    Full payout for newly discovered planets/bodies (and at least 3x what they pay now -- so for ex. about 2 millions for a fully-scanned ELW) and only 10% of the full payout to those who bring data of already-discovered planets -- that's my proposal.
    i would call our actual, modern-day Earth both well known and well explored, yet there are still plenty of things that have never been seen, never been found, never been mapped or charted. https://www.livescience.com/topics/newfound-species

    Pay attention to this part: "Science has identified some 2 million species of plants, animals and microbes on Earth, but scientists estimated there are millions more left to discover, and new species are constantly discovered and described." We've been exploring and discovering for quite a long time. A Babylonian world map, known as the Imago Mundi, is commonly dated to the 6th century BCE. People living in caves painted pictures of animals on the walls, forming what may be the oldest records of known species to exist. And we're still discovering new things. There has to be some value in these discoveries too, right?

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