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Thread: Is the fix in regarding desfending syustems from Thargoid attack?

  1. #16
    Originally Posted by XanderVekk View Post (Source)
    What's the point of playing content if you can't even affect the outcome? I think FDEV bolloxed this one, we were out there all week shooting aliens. In the end it didn't matter at all, now the station is broken and everyone wonders if what we do actually matters at all...
    That's the problem with player-affected content, though - sometimes you'll fail, because if success was guaranteed it would be impossible for players to affect the outcome. Anything like this with 100s or 1000s of players taking part the contribution of any individual is unlikely to be critical in itself - you can work as hard as you like and still fail because 1000 other people didn't show up for it. Or you can skip it and it's fine because 1000 other people did show up.

  2. #17
    I think what you are missing here is that it is not one individual, it is hundreds actually taking part and we have the metrics (kills) recorded thanks to Canonn research. Players failing to hit a threshold of kills is one thing, but hitting the known threshold and then finding out fdev changed the threshold or the rules entirely, is not good for the players involved or the game as a whole. Frontier's motto in this game is:

    400 billion star systems.
    Infinite freedom.
    Blaze your own trail.

    But it should include "unless you get in the way of our scripted events"

    Either we can blaze our own trail or we can't. Infinite freedom=scripted events can be altered by player action. It does not mean, scripted events restrict player freedom (ask any player group that has had their station destroyed if they are feeling the "infinite player freedom" the game promises). If we are all just operating on a script, tell us. We do not have infinite freedom and you can't blaze your own trail. You might think you can until you run into a scripted event and find out your actions, or even the action of hundreds mean nothing. If fdev insists on godhanding, then at least use the in game assets, such as galnet, to create a backstory that 1) explains in loose terms what will happen 2) Why it will happen 3) What players can do to limit the effect. All of this could be done with a well written article along the lines of what I posted above. This is completely achievable with minimal effort and it will reduce the player frustration caused by these scripted events.

  3. #18
    I think the treshold is not known. It's only assumed and may be totally different from what is believed. What I have read it's only based on a statistic made by a player group based on users of the LCU's EDMC plugin "USS survey". That's not really giving hard facts. But that's only what I have read here until now.

  4. #19
    Originally Posted by Arkadi View Post (Source)
    I think the treshold is not known. It's only assumed and may be totally different from what is believed. What I have read it's only based on a statistic made by a player group based on users of the LCU's EDMC plugin "USS survey". That's not really giving hard facts. But that's only what I have read here until now.
    The target may also be increasing, possibly due to increased (in the background) presence by the thargoids as their objectives are thwarted.

    An alien race facing determined opposition to it's goals would likely increase the resources sent to achieve those goals.

  5. #20
    Originally Posted by Arkadi View Post (Source)
    I think the treshold is not known. It's only assumed and may be totally different from what is believed. What I have read it's only based on a statistic made by a player group based on users of the LCU's EDMC plugin "USS survey". That's not really giving hard facts. But that's only what I have read here until now.
    It is not precisely known because fdev doesn't tell anyone, anything, ever. However, we are very sure Fdev is playing with the numbers. We have been at this a very long time and FDev continues to raise the defense targets because what constituted a successful defense one week would be a failed defense the next week and so on. 36 weeks ago successful defense was about 3.000 kills per system. The two previous weeks it was 6k kills, now its more... 7k, 8k, 9k who knows for sure. We can't and/or won't continue to jump through Fdevs increasingly ridiculous hoops. This, may in fact, be exactly what Fdev wants and they have the tools to discourage players from doing anything in game. In weeks 29-31 we were able to defend both targets, in weeks 32-33 we lost 1 of 3, in weeks 34-35 we lost 2/3... Now its week 36 and FDev screwed one of EagleEye messages so we only have two known targets. But the questions is - should we even bother? If FDev wants to invalidate all player efforts they can do so with the press of a button.

  6. #21
    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    I think what you are missing here is that it is not one individual, it is hundreds actually taking part and we have the metrics (kills) recorded thanks to Canonn research.
    You know how many kills Canonn is getting. You have no way of knowing if that's 1% or 99% of the total actual kills. People can be fighting and killing Thargoids without telling Canonn at all.

    If Canonn's recorded kills are only 10% of the total [1] - and it would be highly unusual for a player group to have even that much reach, but Canonn are well known - the thresholds are way higher than anyone thought they were to start with, and there's no way to easily tell the difference between the targets increasing and non-Canonn-recorded players reducing their efforts. The number of targets has changed from 2 to 3 recently. That means any individual target gets on average only 2/3 of those unknown contributors compared with before. They don't need to have increased the numeric thresholds as well for that to make a massive difference. Then there's Beta on, too.

    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    You might think you can until you run into a scripted event and find out your actions, or even the action of hundreds mean nothing.
    I have. My fault for not being charismatic enough [2] to pull together the group size required to fix it, not the game's for setting a target that a larger (but not unprecdently large) group could have made rapid progress on. When an in-game event could have ten people or ten thousand people turn up to participate, it shouldn't be a surprise that sometimes the thresholds are really easy and sometimes basically impossible. That it's sometimes not like that, that it's sometimes actually a close call ... that's actually quite impressive. Or lucky. One of the two.

    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    (ask any player group that has had their station destroyed if they are feeling the "infinite player freedom" the game promises)
    Okay, but what's the alternative? Thargoids never attack systems with PMFs present? Frontier calibrate the requirements to the sizes of each player group present in attacked areas so that they can all get a close victory? Infinite freedom doesn't mean "everything will always go your way".


    [1] 10% is a reasonable estimate of the number of active players using third party tools such as EDMC, EDDiscovery, etc. Even among veteran players it's probably no higher than 25%.
    [2] By a factor of about 100, in my case. But there are players who could have done it.

  7. #22
    Ian, I can never understand people like you who argue things they don't understand in the slightest. The hive tracks their kills separately and at AXI we use Canonn's tracker. We know definitively the minimum number of kills in the systems that are defended. Between AXI and the hive, we represent 90% of everyone fighting thargoids so yes, we have a pretty good understanding of total kills per system. The number of people engaging scouts each week has been quite consistent for both AXI and the hive and again, we are the vast majority of thargoid fighters so any flux in the other 10% is insignificant. The threshold has been raising, it is not a matter of debate, it is a fact. You make absurd assumptions in connecting the percent of players using 3rd party tools to the percent fighting thargoids. There is no correlation. 90% of ED players have never, even once, even touched the thargoid content in any way. Of the 10% that has, only about 5% are dedicated thargoid fighters who are engaging them daily or even weekly and virtually ALL of those have the 3rd party tracking tools.

  8. #23
    I am one of the 10%, PS4 as well with no tracking because i a rubbish with anything like that.

    Fly a spaceship drunkenly, yep, love to engage Thargoids, yep.

    Big respect to all the true xeno hunters out there, and obviously the most heavily armed rabbit in the universe.

    As and when and if a proper war ever starts, iím in. As it stands i canae break a semi, sometimes i go and get kills in the killzone, sometimes i do other stuff.

    o7

  9. #24
    when the proper war starts, there are plenty of resources at AXI to help improve your thargoid hunting. From builds to training. https://discord.gg/gZbAWCF

  10. #25
    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    Jason Timberlake? LMAO ...yeah, that pretty much says all that needs to be said. Oh, Skye, I thought you rage quit after that "unfortunate incident", or maybe weren't flying with a rebuy? Hope you have a few now...
    See? That's why I chose Timberlake. He represents some of AXI so good (IRL, I play in metalbands btw^^)

    Why would I rage quit over what incident? Like many others, I'm waiting for the update and play other games right now.

  11. #26
    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    Between AXI and the hive, we represent 90% of everyone fighting thargoids
    I would be genuinely interested in your evidence for that statement as it seems from what I can see to be highly unlikely.

    Looking at it from here (you can verify these figures at ross.eddb.io for the next couple of days):
    Ngaiawang, in the period 1 Nov to 7 Nov, had 137 EDDN FSDJump events from a commander running a 3rd-party tracker entering the system
    Brib, same period, 240 events
    CD-54 471 - the survivor - had 180 events.
    (Checking versus previous weeks, which are no longer on the ROSS site, these are all roughly 10x increases on the normal EDDN-recorded traffic levels)

    This is *weekly*, so the daily traffic would be about 1/7 of that, or 20-35 ships on average.

    Someone in the other thread provided a summary of one for a day in Magec, and that looks like about a third of the system visitors were using third-party tools. If almost all of your fighters use third-party tools, that suggests you only represent about [1] a third of them - or did three months ago, anyway. If you do now represent 90% then either you've been very successful in recruiting the rest over the recent months ... or most of the others have given up and gone away.

    If you grab a timestamped traffic report screenshot for one (or more, if you want) of this week's threatened systems, I'll compare to the EDDN data for the preceding 24 hours and see what the ratio is nowadays. I would be highly surprised if it was anywhere near 90%, though.

    [1] Since EDMC and EDDiscovery log events to EDDN by default but need an extra plugin to log Thargoid kills, there's a possibility that some players appear on the EDDN count but not your count, either because they didn't go there to hunt Thargoids or because they did but aren't using the logging. So it might be less than a third.


    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    90% of ED players have never, even once, even touched the thargoid content in any way. Of the 10% that has, only about 5% are dedicated thargoid fighters who are engaging them daily or even weekly and virtually ALL of those have the 3rd party tracking tools.
    If those are percentages of people who bought the game at all, you're claiming a >10,000 strong Thargoid-fighting force. (Assuming you mean 10% * 5% = 0.5%)
    If you mean currently active players, then you're still claiming >1,000.

    The EDDN-based traffic monitoring does not suggest you're anywhere near that big. So either you're significantly overestimating how many people fight Thargoids regularly, or you're significantly overestimating how many regular Thargoid fighters use the third party trackers.

  12. #27
    Originally Posted by Ian Doncaster View Post (Source)

    [1] Since EDMC and EDDiscovery log events to EDDN by default but need an extra plugin to log Thargoid kills, there's a possibility that some players appear on the EDDN count but not your count, either because they didn't go there to hunt Thargoids or because they did but aren't using the logging. So it might be less than a third.
    I again want to stress that this fact should be advertised more. Also on this forum it's hard to learn that fact. I did believe that it's enough to have EDMC running. I don't really care so much about that USS research, so I didn't have LCU's USS Survey plugin installe, but I want my Tharg Kills to be logged. I am not part of any group currently and doing Tharg Hunting with random commanders I meet in open. I meet some cmdrs every week who are totally new to Tharg hunting and don't use EDMC. I myself have struggled to find out what I have to do, so my kills are logged.

    I think I'll have to PM M.Volgrand to put this information on the #1 post of his Thargoid Data Gathering Effort threat. Also it would be helpful if Factabolous would give this info in his #1 post in his "Thargoid Attacks: Where, When..." thread, because I think that's the main information source on the internet when searching for information with google.

    That would be helpful to increase the number of logged kills imho.

  13. #28
    Originally Posted by Rick Bravo View Post (Source)
    when the proper war starts, there are plenty of resources at AXI to help improve your thargoid hunting. From builds to training. https://discord.gg/gZbAWCF
    Cheers, i have recently been fiddling with modules/engineering on my krait with a view to having a shot at soloing a basillisk, i have 30+ solo cyclops kills (lost count) but havent been able to step up a level so far.

    Will keep at it, ready for the Big Kick Off.

    o7

  14. #29
    Well, Skye, after harry sent you to the rebuy screen and you had to pay that big bounty, you were noticeably absent for some time. Funny what happens to you guys when you run into any ship equipped for PvP. I am pretty sure you must be listening to timberlake, his softness matches HALT much better.

  15. #30
    Originally Posted by ZAKALWEINC8876 View Post (Source)
    Cheers, i have recently been fiddling with modules/engineering on my krait with a view to having a shot at soloing a basillisk, i have 30+ solo cyclops kills (lost count) but havent been able to step up a level so far.

    Will keep at it, ready for the Big Kick Off.

    o7
    Best of luck with the Basilisk. It is a big step up. o7

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